Playing as a female character usually annoys me.

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The_Vigilant

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Jul 13, 2011
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Let's see...how can I say this without sounding like a troll or a sexist douche? Hmm...

I can't. So I'll just say it: men and women are not the same and when a clear male role is filled identically with a female it becomes stupid. Let me explain. I've played the Mass Effect games a thousand times, always as a male Shepard, and loved them. The dialogue was funny and compelling and while the universe was a fantasy, no absurdities shocked me from immersion.

Then I tried to do a playthrough as FemShep. It was painful. Every cutscene was an exercise in endurance, watching this chick try to be an intimidating wartime leader. Please. I don't mind a tough, female warrior who fights with magic, or with stealth and guile, etc. But every time I see a size zero beauty queen solve a problem with her fists or a staredown, or wear plate armor and swing a claymore, the only thought running through my mind is "spare me."

Realism is always preferable to nonsense unless the nonsense adds something distinctly enjoyable that realism would prevent. For example, the notion that one laser sword can obstruct the path of another, or the idea that by magic skeletons can be raised from corpses to serve the caster. What exactly am I supposed to get from Lara Croft roundhouse kicking musclebound fighters twice her size, or Devona beating grawl with a hundred and fifty pound hammer? Am I stupid or is this stupid? People tell me that there's some kind of sex appeal behind this Charlie's Angels/Bayonetta bullshit, but that doesn't make sense either. If you're looking for sex, uh...get laid (duh?) or go watch porn. Why try to mix it obnoxiously into a video game in such a way that it breaks immersion.

I know all kinds of hard women. My family's full of them: soldiers, construction workers, marathon runners, trainers, etc. I'm stronger and faster than every one of them. That's not because I'm a superhuman, it's because I'm a man and they're women. Hell, most women can't get the cap off a jar of pickles without a rubber grip. Not only are women smaller and weaker, but they are equipped with estrogen-induced behavioral traits while EVERY adventure storyline is driven by testosterone-induced behavioral traits. This just adds to the jarring discord that occurs when an action protagonist is female, usually in the form of her dialogue, which, even if the words are right, is just too high pitched to carry the weight of threat or conviction.

Now, I can understand the presence of these heroines. More ladies join our ranks every day, and they should be given a character option with which they can identify. But even female gamers must detect the nagging sense of impossibility that the utterly unchanged application of a female hero to a male role creates. So why is it that so many men choose to play as a chick? You and I both know there's no way a female is going to be humanity's first SPECTRE when women can't even make the Navy SEALs, and every time FemShep knocks a Krogan down with the butt of her Assault Rife it breaks immersion. So why do you do it?

Addendum: don't give me that "I'd rather look at a girl's ass" excuse. If you say that and truly mean it, you're an idiot. Also, I have complete respect for the female of our species. You are all beautiful and I adore you. Women's inferior physical strength often leads to greater respect on my part because it takes more courage to do everything in this world. On an almost daily basis I see women exhibiting a sort of courage men twice their size will never comprehend.

There - I expressed myself. I'll turtle up until VoD.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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you better get your flame suit ready

I admit, it does irk me when you see a dainty woman go toe to toe with an orc. they should at least be built like a strong woman not a beauty queen. But then again, its fantasy isnt it. but woman can be plenty skilled enough to fight. A woman at the peak of her strength may not equal a man at the peak of his strength. But that doesnt mean women cant fight.
 

Torrasque

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The_Vigilant said:
I know all kinds of hard women. My family's full of them: soldiers, construction workers, marathon runners, trainers, etc. I'm stronger and faster than every one of them. That's not because I'm a superhuman, it's because I'm a man and they're women. Hell, most women can't get the cap off a jar of pickles without a rubber grip. Not only are women smaller and weaker, but they are equipped with estrogen-induced behavioral traits while EVERY adventure storyline is driven by testosterone-induced behavioral traits. This just adds to the jarring discord that occurs when an action protagonist is female, usually in the form of her dialogue, which, even if the words are right, is just too high pitched to carry the weight of threat or conviction.
lol oh man, I stopped reading after this paragraph.
Fieldy409 said:
you better get your flame suit ready
I couldn't say it better than this.
You are going to get so much flaming poo thrown at you, its not even funny.

I've seen enough dominate women that are manly enough to do a man's job, but remain women.
Samus being the best example: everyone thought she was a he, until she took off her helmet.
"WHAT?!?!? ALL THAT ALIEN SLAYING BADASSERY WAS DONE BY A GIRL!?!? WHAT EVEN!!!???"
I'll admit, that alot of the time, female heroines are shown as being big-boobed, really girly girls, that use their feminine wiles to get the job done. But there are also female heroes out there that get the job done with their skills, not their anatomy.

I'm sorry, but you're an idiot if you think are you are better than a female, just because you're a guy.
Don't even tell me "I didn't say that, I said 'stronger and faster'", its obvious what you meant.
 

Mr Thin

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I get what you're saying, but I've never had my suspension of disbelief shattered because of it.

For example, I'm more thrown off by Lara Croft's huge assets, flawless skin and magazine model beauty than I am by the fact that she can knock a guy out with one kick.

As for why I play as female characters... well I usually don't. I intend my next Mass Effect playthrough to be a woman, but that's pretty much entirely because hearing all the dialogue in a different voice will serve to make it more interesting.

Edit: I mean, you can always pass off fem-Shep's ability to beat up a Krogan as her suit enhancing her physical strength, or cybernetics or something. Why she's drop dead gorgeous is a lot less justifiable, and a lot more jarring to me.
 

The_Vigilant

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Torrasque said:
I'm sorry, but you're an idiot if you think are you are better than a female, just because you're a guy.
It's a shame you commented without reading the post. You might have saved yourself from looking stupid. This is precisely the point I took time to indicate that I was not making. I was pretty specific.

And by the way, I love the Metroid games and I'm totally happy with Samus Aran. She succeeds with the judicious application of technology and problem solving, not physical dominance.
 

Javarock

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The women who battle should have the appearance of being stronger.

The men look like they are strong...


While in the same game...


Compare the body structure, If she is to be wearing plate, Having gone through all of that, She should appear stronger.

At least, I Hope that's what he's driving at, Honestly I don't know at this point.
 

CWestfall

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Yeah, you ended up sounding sexist.

I think the last 500 years where life has become successively less about trying to secure your next meal have also proved that men and women are a lot less different than people once thought. Physically fit is physically fit. Muscle is muscle. Resolve and bravery are resolve and bravery. It doesn't particularly matter whether you can grow lots of facial hair or if you contain a Von Neumann machine.
 

enzilewulf

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Yeah never mind, I don't find Women in games nagging I just like playing as my own sex. Ladies in games can sound just as threatening or heroic as a guy. That and when some girl in a games says something in a sexy tone then does something bad ass you have to just be like "Woah. thats awesome."
 

Traun

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Admittedly you are not the only one. Only 20% of the playerbase used a female Shephard.
 

MercurySteam

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The_Vigilant said:
Let's see...how can I say this without sounding like a troll or a sexist douche? Hmm...
Well go on, surprise me.

The_Vigilant said:
I know all kinds of hard women. My family's full of them: soldiers, construction workers, marathon runners, trainers, etc. I'm stronger and faster than every one of them. That's not because I'm a superhuman, it's because I'm a man and they're women. Hell, most women can't get the cap off a jar of pickles without a rubber grip. Not only are women smaller and weaker..........
I'm sorry but with this paragraph you have failed before you started. You're suggesting that all women are slower and weaker than all other men, aren't you? That is really sexist. Also you're saying all women are slower and weaker than you which does make you sound like a douche. I'm not insulting you, I'm just telling you what kind of person you make yourself sound like by writing this.

The_Vigilant said:
You and I both know there's no way a female is going to be humanity's first SPECTRE when women can't even make the Navy SEALs, and every time FemShep knocks a Krogan down with the butt of her Assault Rife it breaks immersion.
You don't think that they can or maybe the can't because they're never given a chance? I mean come on, would you really be surprised that in the army nowadays women are expected to pull they same weight as men? Not only are the successful ones able to but the truly excellent ones go above and beyond.
 

ChupathingyX

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The_Vigilant said:
But every time I see a size zero beauty queen solve a problem with her fists or a staredown, or wear plate armor and swing a claymore, the only thought running through my mind is "spare me."
Well then let me just recommend that you never ever play a Dynasty Warriors or Samurai Warriors game.
 

CM156_v1legacy

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Mar 23, 2011
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Man, that will never get old.

...

Oh

OT: Eh, IDK, I rather enjoy as playing as both male and female characters in RPGs. Even FemShep.

I've nothing really profound to say. So here, take this ring of +5 fire resistance. Because I know you are going to need it.
 

Mr Thin

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CWestfall said:
Yeah, you ended up sounding sexist.

I think the last 500 years where life has become successively less about trying to secure your next meal have also proved that men and women are a lot less different than people once thought. Physically fit is physically fit. Muscle is muscle. Resolve and bravery are resolve and bravery. It doesn't particularly matter whether you can grow lots of facial hair or if you contain a Von Neumann machine.
All the feminism and open-mindedness in the world won't carry the weight of full plate armour and a broadsword.

The OP isn't saying women can't be bad-asses, he's saying that they should look like bad-asses, instead of fashion models on a photo shoot. Doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.
 

dyre

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While I agree with you somewhat, I've never had a problem with playing femShep. She's a Spectre, she has Garrus standing behind her, and she has a gun, so I don't have a problem with her intimidating thugs and what not. FemShep's not really a size zero beauty queen anyway.

Besides, I always play paragon, so there's a lot more negotiation and only a bit of intimidation in my game.
 

dyre

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Mr Thin said:
The OP isn't saying women can't be bad-asses, he's saying that they should look like bad-asses, instead of fashion models on a photo shoot. Doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.
Err, actually he is saying they can't be bad-asses, at least not the way male protagonists are.
 

Flailing Escapist

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Tl;DR, much?

I kid, but seriously I don't find a problem with Commander Shepard being a woman. The dialogue changes the game/tone a bit, Jennifer Hale does FemShep's voice and who else could stop the Reapers but a power house?
Does it matter if Shepard is a man or a woman? I'm inclined to say no because my imagination allows a woman to have the same physical tactical advantage as any man.

I'm not saying that theres justification for every game where the gender of your character is choosable but Mass Effect is one of the games where I think you can really let it slide.

To the OT I'd say its because my FemShep is a complete *****. And I figure her immense powers of bitchness are created by her very well hidden masculine man muscles.
But outside of Mass Effect I agree with you. If I'm planning a heavy class I always play as a guy.
If only because it makes more sense in my mind. (No sexist)

Edit: and I'd have to disagree that women aren't as physically adept as men. I played soccer a lot in high school (varsity). Now I could beat probably all of the varsity women's team in arm wrestling competitions or kicking distance when we skirmished their speed and agility easily made up for it.
What I'm saying is that while my legs may be stronger than most women's the margin of difference is significantly reduced if she had been playing soccer her whole life and works out every day.

And as for the looks FemShep looks lean but she definately does not have any excess flab. I know several lean women who can hit harder than any of my man friends but I suppose that Bioware is/was pushing the limit as much as possible. And once again my imagination takes care of the rest. But if she was any smaller, say an elf I'd have a hard time believing her.
 

Mr Thin

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dyre said:
Mr Thin said:
self snip
Err, actually he is saying they can't be bad-asses, at least not the way male protagonists are.
I'm sure he wouldn't mind the sight of a woman in full plate if she looked more like Brienne of Tarth and less like Keira Knightley. At least that's what I got from his post.

Is that right OP? I feel weird, like I'm talking about someone when they're in the same room.
 

dyre

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Mar 30, 2011
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Mr Thin said:
dyre said:
Mr Thin said:
self snip
Err, actually he is saying they can't be bad-asses, at least not the way male protagonists are.
I'm sure he wouldn't mind the sight of a woman in full plate if she looked more like Brienne of Tarth and less like Keira Knightley. At least that's what I got from his post.

Is that right OP? I feel weird, like I'm talking about someone when they're in the same room.
Talking about someone when they're in the same room is awesome :(

Anyways, regarding your Brienne of Tarth statement, refer to this line:
"I know all kinds of hard women. My family's full of them: soldiers, construction workers, marathon runners, trainers, etc. I'm stronger and faster than every one of them. That's not because I'm a superhuman, it's because I'm a man and they're women."
 

Canus

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Feb 15, 2010
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If you compare Olympic weightlifting scores, pound for pound women are about 2/3 as strong as men. Just thought I'd throw that out there.