I'm a 360 fan and I like metal gear... so much so that I even bought a PS3... I've always liked Metal Gear, I didn't just decide to stop liking one of my favourite game series ever because I wanted a 360 when they came out.Pendragon9 said:
PlayStation CEO Hopes 2008 Was "As Bad As it Gets"
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That is true, and we can all admit, Sony's PR and Marketing departments are horrid, but you cannot tell me that Nintendo and Microsoft do what Sony do as well. With the DSi, in every advert I've seen it was about the voice recording, or the cameras, or the shop. Sometimes it shows a gameplay footage or two, but a lot of the times it's just centered around mutlimedeia and it being "you" (the "i" in "DSi") which is an interesting marketing strategy. Yet when Sony advertises things similar to this, people get angry at them?LimaBravo said:
On the Microsoft side, nearly half of the conference at this year's E3 was about multimedia integration. I dont' want to restate it, but Facebook and Twitter integration, and Natal, aren't exactly what you would call games now would you? (Natal notwithstanding yet since we have no clue what it's going to be used for).
*raises hand* I personally bought a PS3 mainly for MGS4, as well as the promise of other tantalizing games. I was not disappointed. If there are less exclusives, wouldn't that mean that the exclusives mean more and more to the companies? After all, if it was all multiplatform games, there'd be no reason to buy a system in the first place.
And again, on the price, a Ferrari costs multiple times more than a Minivan, don't the Ferrari guys know we're in a recession! God! They shouldn't price their crap above everyone elses stuff, that's alienating their core fanbase! It's losing them money, why are they pricing their cars so high!?!........well, because it's a premium? I'm not denying that the PS3 is expensive (though I don't really think $400 is too much, especially considering I got one for $600), but not everything in life is cheap or free.
To an extent, I agree with you, but has it ever occurred to you, hell, has it occurred to anyone that maybe the PS3 isn't exactly targeted to the Wii's or 360's consumers? Just a thought, I mean it's not like the average Joe can afford a PS3 all the time, as you said. People bitched about that one $2000 laptop made by Sony, but even as it was being made in limited amounts, it was a "special edition", it had a cheaper (though still costly) $1000 brother, people kept moaning and groaning about "GOSH Sony! Don't you know we're in a RECESSION?12#!@" when it is clearly not marketed towards us, the poor, and I doubt even 1/10 of them were even considering buying a product like that. Same situation here I suppose, though I still agree that their marketing is all over the place.
I find it funny that people make comments on the PS3 being a huge ass piece of iron, yet people scoff at the idea of a PS3 Slim. Oh irony/hypocrisy, I hate you sometimes.
I'd hardly think Blu-ray is pointless, we can only stay with DVDs for so long. Whether or not Blu-ray trumps DVDs or if another magical format comes along the horizon and will beat it, who knows.
No no fucking NO! You were doing so well up to this point! Now this is just complete ignorance, but an understandable one to a degree. Blu-ray players can play DVD discs, how do you thin the Backwards compatible PS3's could play their PS2 brother's games? Magic Voodoo? How do you think it could read the discs, toss a string at it and say please? This is a very common misconception, please don't think this anymore.
[sup]Though on reflection I may have misread[/sup]
EDIT: To further push the point, new technologies always start out expensive. The cheapest Blu-ray player I could find was 155.95 [http://www.refurbdepot.com/category.cfm?PageID=514&refererid=google_BluRay&gclid=CI68j5mM05sCFR7yDAodDXg3Lw], which is quite cheap, though I'd imagine it wouldn't be as good of a quality as other ones like the PS3 and higher. Again, we're stuck in the past, hurry up and build a time machine.
Well, that's personal, but what about the Wii shelves? My local shop has half a wall dedicated to the games for the Wii, that must mean that the Wii has the most and better games, right? And it's not like the prices hardly go down with those games either, I mean, it's not like my friend found No More Heroes still for 50 bones, right? Right?
More games, equal does not, quality of those games. You can have a whole half wall dedicated to a system, but all is for naught if only 2/5th of them are good. So what if it has less shelve space, what about the PC section, mine is barely a cupboard in my shop, does that mean PC games are dieing or something? Besides, just ask behind the counter for your game, what does shelve space mean for anything?
EDIT: Oh, and on the "PS3 is weaker than a top-o-the-rang PC!" crap argument, so what? I have argued this tons of times, it does not matter if a console is weaker than a PC because they get weaker practically a month away from release anyways! Why don't I see this stupid argument with the 360 or Wii or even PS2? It's always the "PS3 is worse than a top-o-the-range PC!@#!@" because for some reason a PS3 is supposed to be better than one. PCs and Consoles market two different people, why are some of you so caught up in the PC side that everything else must be better than a PC hardware-wise to be noteworthy. "This iPod is weaker than my PC, therefore it suxorz!@#" "The PS2 is weaker than my PC, therefore it's gamez must be worse and nobody can do anything with it!!@#" "This Atari 2600 is vastly inferior to my PC! It's such a load of crap, therefore!"
Meh. I just can't agree. Our opinions on this just will never meet. Even in the face of opposition, I refuse to sell my PSP because I'll never find anything worth buying the DS for. The same goes for the Wii. Or the 360. As many good games as they have, this is why I'll remain with my Ps3. It's got more games I want.Treblaine said:
So really, I'd rather stop arguing because nothing on the 360 can really warrant a purchase from me, and I'm just arguing over nothing.
To me, Sony has made all the right moves. I've enjoyed the games on their console, and I look forward to the titles they have next year. I can't say the same for any of the other consoles. So if they've managed to get my attention, obviously they're doing something right.
And I guess there's no point in continuing the argument. Since the people here are unarguable. Insulting the Ps3's size, then scoffing at the Ps3 Slim, like Jumplion said earlier. The hypocrisy in that could fill a stadium.
Really, you can all badmouth Sony all you want. They're not leaving anytime soon. I see nothing but good things for the PS3.
Oh, and for the record, I agree with every one of Jumplion's posts above. He's doing a hell of a lot better at arguing the important points.
Yeah I know that DVD's play in BR, but whats the point in having a new tech & a TV to play that tech without new product.[/quote]LimaBravo said:
If you're ready to upgrade, as I showed, there's a blu-ray player selling at $155.95, more than cheap enough to be accessible. It's just like upgrading from PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to PS3, you upgrade to play the movies/games available on Blu-ray. And DVD discs aren't too shabby to look at either, or so I've been told.
I realize that PC gaming is the best gaming platform if you're tech savvy. You know what the average punter doesn't care about? SLI systems, dual cards, quad-core-microprocessors, Diamond encrusted Motherboards, or Hexagonal GPUs. To even make that damn $600 SLI system thing, you need to know where everything goes, how to install everything, what OS you're going to get, what systems function is going on, and loads more just to get the damn thing booted up. There's a reason why people have the belief that PC gaming is expensive.
PCs are not, and never meant, to play games. They were always first and foremost a business machine. There may be Gaming PCs out there, but the general population views PCs as something you do your work on, socialize with others on sites, or play a game or two of Bejeweled. I'm not saying there aren't people who play "hardcore" PC games, just that those people are not the majority.
Oh, and if you want blu-ray on your PC, add another 160 bucks [http://www.newegg.com/product/ProductList.aspx?DEPA=0&type=&Description=Blu-Ray+burner&Submit=ENE&N=0&Ntk=all&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA]. $760 just to play blu-ray on your SLI system is much better than a $400 PS3 that can have blu-ray and more, right? Not to mention that $600 is squeezing it and to get top-top-top of the range PC, that everyone compares the PS3 to, you'd probably need a bit more than $600. I highly doubt having blu-ray on PC is a concern for most people, nor has it been for DVDs or VHSs.
BR for gaming is also an excuse to design extremely efficient games that take full advantage of it, ala MGS4, Killzone 2, Resistance 2, and up coming games such as God of War 3, Heavy Rain, M.A.G., and Fat Princess (mmmmmmm, princesses *gurgling sound*
I didn't need to install CoD4, nor was it 7Gb for me, where the hell do you get that? Fallout 3 didn't need install on my PS3 either, in fact my system files says around a few MB not GB. Where the hell are you getting your numbers? And both of them play fine, how are either one of them badly coded? I have not heard of any of your complaints, nor have I seen any of them. And when did the PS3 scratch disks? I thought the 360 did that, on numerous numerous occasions. I have yet to have a scratched disk on my PS3, and so does every single person I've met who's had a PS3. All the people I know who have a 360 has had at least 1 scratched disk. Now you're just making stuff up.
DSi is constantly (and correctly) criticized for its removal of the GameBoy Advance slot, as well as the DSi store for offerings such as Mario Clock. If players were unable to use their DS cards on the DSi without driving out to use some retailer's "converter", which I've heard nothing about, it would be criticized for that as well.Jumplion said:
Are you serious? When you go from market leader two console cycles in a row to second runner-up, losing billions on the new console along the way, you've done something wrong. Bringing up the quality of games, value of the product or "your attention" when discussing business is a waste of time because such things are subjective. The facts are that the PS3 has the smallest install base of the current three consoles as well as the smallest library of games. These issues coupled with the fact that the most powerful gaming hardware available has never remained market leader for long doesn't lead to "nothing but good things for the PS3". Each of the "big three" have made mistakes regarding their new consoles, Sony has simply made more of them.Pendragon9 said:
You speak against others for being close-minded, yet say you'll "never" find anything worth buying any other console or handheld for? Also, who has made any mention of a slim PS3 besides you and Jumplion?
I can only assume you mean the PSP Go not supporting UMD games, and all I can say to that is FINALLY! What took you so damn long? The DSi and PSP Go are essentially the same thing, what's a problem with that? They're both mutlimedia yet they don't offer backwards compatibility, why is is so hard for people to just say "They're the same"? Well, you sir, have said it, and you're absolutely right.WraithGadra said:
Though a converter box is better than nothing at all, what's Nintendo's plan for GBA games to be played on DSi? Nothing as far as I've heard.
On the slim comment, a person or two made a comment about how big and bulky the PS3 is, yet you can see in this thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.124447] and this news post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.124447] that for some reason people don't see a reason for the Slim? Opinions do range from stuff to stuff, but c'mon already!
Whoa whoa whoa. I was willing to call the argument off before it got bad. But are you implying I'm not allowed my choice in consoles?! I never said people should buy the Ps3, but instead to simply not be so critical of it. Yet you're telling me I'm not allowed to have my own opinion.WraithGadra said:
I have games on the PS3 that I happen to like, thank you very much. And it's not your business to tell me I'm wrong for liking them. Face it. I like the games on the PS3, and there's nothing you can say to change that. The other consoles have good games, like I've said. But they don't catch my interest. That doesn't make them bad to me, but it just doesn't do it for me. I'd rather be in the minority of PS3 gamers then go along with the crowd. I couldn't even care if it's the smallest install base. It has games that appeal to me. That's all I care about.
I hope you're not trying to start up another argument. Yeesh. You 360 fanboys are relentless.
And for the record, the Ps3 slim has been in the works for a while. Or do you not read the news?
People are critical of flaws in products and business strategies. When the problems are fixed, they find other flaws to complain about. I said your opinions are irrelevant when discussing business, not that you aren't allowed to have them. Rather than address any business concerns raised, you simply called opponents "fanboys" and continue to do so, despite the only "evidence" of such a claim being that they disagree with you. Do you even know what systems I own? Finally, I don't care about a slim PS3 because it wouldn't solve the issues facing the console. Now, are you going to continue to complain about your opinion or discuss business?Pendragon9 said:
Actually~, if a PS3 Slim came along, it would most likely either A)Bring a price drop for the "fat" PS3 or B)It would be priced even cheaper then current "fat" PS3s.WraithGadra said:
Though I wouldn't count on it considering Sony's wacky track record, who knows what they'll do with it.
Excuse me, but I already said my point. I don't need to argue with you too. Stop trying to bring up another argument. This was over with my other post.WraithGadra said:
Besides, I know the people i fought with are fanboys because the laughed at the Ps3's bulky design, yet the slim is laughed at for somehow being a failure. They whine about the price, yet when it drops they complain more. You're trying to say the Ps3 is crap because it's not the most popular. Because "business" dictates it. I didn't come here to discuss business. I came here to discuss gaming.
I don't want to start another fight. So I'm just going to ignore any replies that come this way. Call me a quitter and a loser all you want, but I have better things to do then argue with children over how the PS3 is the worst, when clearly it isn't. Flaws don't make something a horrible product, and at least they're trying to fix it. They don't need an ungrateful group of pricks they call an unhappy fanbase to breathe down their necks.
Good day.
There's an entire section of the forums dedicated to gaming dicussion [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/index/9], why try to do so in the news room? You also fail to notice that I make no mention of the PS3's quality. You're simply trying to justify your martyr complex by portraying me as an attacker when all I've done is mention objective problems facing the PS3. There's no reason to waste time and energy telling people that you're leaving, just do so. The discussion can continue without you.Pendragon9 said:
Yeesh, you just don't listen, do you? I already said I'm ignoring any replies to me. Infact, I'm ignoring you right now by having my head turned and using my intricate martial arts typing skills to type this out.WraithGadra said:
Objective problems or not, the Ps3 still manages to get by. I still find no fault with it, so it's no use trying to convince me. I know the problems persist, and you can argue them if you want. I just don't see the flaws myself.
Go find someone else to argue with. I already said I'm done, and I do not want to re-ignite another argument.
Oh, but that doesn't make them bad consoles. They were just outdid by competition. I bet you'll find a hundred or more people who loved Sega's old consoles. At any rate, I wish to see how the market actually does, instead of having people second guess it.
There. Technically, I didn't respond.
There. Technically, I didn't respond.
"I refuse to sell my PSP because I'll never find anything worth buying the DS for"Pendragon9 said:
It is comments like this that do you no favours.
Firstly, who said you had to sell your PSP? The Nintendo DS lite is about $80 used, similar price over here (UK) I am not selling my PSP to get my DS. That is barely more than a newly released game.
Then you say you will *NEVER* find any decent DS game? Do you not realise this device is not only entirely backwards compatible with every GBA game (now that is a heck of a back catalogue), can use the R4 card to play many emulated PC games (Quake is popular) with mouse like precision? Then you have DS titles like Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword, Guitar Hero On Tour, Metroid Prime Hunters and many other 3D shooters that are so much faster paced and fluid than PSP shooters. The graphics are about on par with the N64... which is nothing to sniff at for a console you can play anywhere.
It is not like you have to sell your Sony console to buy a DS/360/Wii as these platforms have very cheap entry level prices.
This is all extremely relevant when it comes to how the PSP-3000 and PSPgo will sell when the competition is able to offer so much at such competitive price. Hell the DSi is $170 compared to PSPgo's $250, you could get a home console for that much.
Not everyone has the same mindset of "must switch, no middle ground" but rather they consider simply expaning their console collection. In fairness, I think this is what a lot of people do, I eventually got a Gamecube to spite how much I liked my PS2. It was a pleasant surprised by the graphics and gameplay quality considering the Gamecube was "apparently" inherently inferior for using Mini-DVD instead of PS2's DVD that had over 5.7 times the capacity (interestingly Blu-ray has 5.8 times the capacity of DVD).
You may feel loyalty to Sony, this happens a lot with expensive things like brands, football teams and so on but Sony has cashed in so much credibility there aren't many of your kind left.
My tip, buy a Gamecube for $20 and play Zelda: Twilight Princess. It is cheap as chips, that game is great and there are so many other great games for GC plus I think you could do with some experience on a non-Sony platform.
I have to focus in on this as you need to consider the monitor factor. One thing that hugely increases the REAL-OVERALL cost of the PS3 is how it can only play the games in native resolution via a HDTV which to get decent quality can easily top $1000. Even shopping around for best prices the total cost of PS3 + HDTV is about $800-1000. So considering you can get a good quality 1440x900 monitor for under $100: dollar-for-dollar you should compare a PS3 with a $700-$900 PC.Jumplion said:
Now a PC will play games really well but also do all the necessary functions of a computer like internet, word processing, and even more advanced programs like photo/video/music editing. PS3 cannot adequately replace a PC though Linux is useful.
Plus, when the brand new generation of games come out... console means starting over with a whole new system. With PC it can just mean incremental upgrades, perfect example is DX11 coming along soon with Dirt 2 as well as a new operating system.
Blu-ray is irrelevant with PC. Did Crysis need blu-ray? No. Do any of the best looking PC games that easily beat any console game need blu-ray? No. Blu-ray is only for if you want 1080p movies, I'll settle for streaming/downloading 720p movies for now. The cost of the disks, players and screens/monitors of resolution/size to play them is not worth the 2x increase in detail... not yet.
PS: Both Nintendo Wii and Xbox 360 have VGA output so monitors are also options for them but if we are going to consider total costs then both Wii and 360 have to have $$$ added to overall cost due to - respectively - their expensive peripherals and annual subscription fee. But this is a hard one to quantify for obvious reasons.
PPS: Also, if you live in the UK, it is worth your while to be free of HDTV as TV = TV licence = £142 per year = $230 per year. Yanks don't understand but with the amount of free and legal streaming of content via the internet, I am one of millions of young adults who don't have a TV and don't ever want one.
PPPS: just noticed this is a bit PC fanboyish... to balance everything; gaming IS harder on PC especially in terms of management and DRM plus you constantly have to monitor your PC's health. Just don't consider PC that bad an option, though it takes more effort, it doesn't take much more money in many circumstances while the payoffs can be much greater than for consoles.