Please help me Escapists!! I need to stop pretending to be religious; I need advice

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Korbo

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Mar 2, 2011
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Danyal said:
Russell Utterson said:
If he doesn't let you have your own opinion, he's violating one of your rights as a human. It's as simple as that.
Father, I'm not a muslim anymore.
WHAT?!?! You animal!
STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM! You're breaking the human rights!
Ahw, ok, I grant you your right to believe what you want to believe.

Solving problems with the Human Right Police, always nice.

Seriously, do you think his father cares about his son's right to believe what he wants?
No, but I'm sure some activist somewhere does.
 

Random berk

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Danyal said:
Random berk said:
Danyal said:
Random berk said:
Danyal said:
I got a warning for posting a non-pornographical nude picture in spoiler tags with a warning about the contents. I think the guy above me deserves a more severe punishment.
Why did you do that?
Putting the nude picture in spoiler tags?

http://www.dailydot.com/society/ai-weiwei-nude-photos-censorship/

Don't you know about #nudephotorevolution?
Girl in Egypt posed naked because of all the injustices in Egypt/the Islamic world.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/19/world/meast/nude-blogger-aliaa-magda-elmahdy/index.html


CNN: How do you see women in the "New Egypt" and will you leave the country if the ongoing revolution fails?
Elmahdy: I am not positive at all unless a social revolution erupts. Women under Islam will always be objects to use at home. The (sexism) against women in Egypt is unreal, but I am not going anywhere and will battle it 'til the end. Many women wear the veil just to escape the harassment and be able to walk the streets. I hate how society labels gays and lesbians as abnormal people. Different is not abnormal!
Ah, no, I hadn't heard of it. Its an interesting method of protesting. I'm not sure it isn't counterproductive though.
Counterproductive? In what way? Worsening fundamentalism? Worsening rape? Worsening attacks on unveiled women? Worsening attacks on Christians and Those Without Religion?
Worsening the treatment of women in her country. She said it herself, the population are mostly indoctrinated to believe that women are things to be used, and should not have the freedom that she displays. What she, and just about anyone on this forum will see as taking a stand for women's rights, they will just see it as a woman stepping far out of place, and committing blasphemy or some such nonsense. The people responsible for propagating this view will leap on it and say that this is why women are morally inferior, and should be kept covered up and suppressed, you know the routine.
 

Ilikemilkshake

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Battleaxx90 said:
SPDC - Short post didnt contribute.

If you didnt read the OP why even bother posting in the thread?

Anyway OT: it sounds like you've got it pretty much figured out, You know who you are and what you believe, and thats great.. You shouldnt necessarily have to tell your parents though, unless they make you say prayers or something else you might not want to do, thats the time to bring up the fact you dont want to.

If your parents are decent at all they should respect, or at least tolerate the fact that you have free will and are capable of independant though.
 

loc978

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Agitated Owl said:
In any case, it sounds like you're doing alright for yourself. As hard as it is, you can't force your dad to accept your beliefs or that you believe them, no more than he can force you believe something that you do not believe. Is this tension actually affecting your daily life, or is it frustrating because you feel like your dad doesn't understand or accept you?
^that^

don't force things. Live with this until you can move out on your own, then build your own life.

I'm in a similar situation with my mother. I've been agnostic/athiest (not sure what to call myself aside from "skeptic"... about most commonly held beliefs) since I was 15. I'm 30, and she still thinks I'm a christian. My dad knows better, but doesn't let on in mixed company.

DesiPrinceX09 said:
EDIT: Okay, I didn't make this clear enough and I am sorry. I have told him that I don't believe what he does, or at least tried. But as I said, he interrupts, doesn't let me finish what I was saying, corrects everything as though he knows the truth, and believes its' just a "phase" I am going through. So round one is done, it's out there that I don't believe; I just need to make it clear. So round two is coming up, any suggestions?
Play along. Let him believe it was just a phase, move out and build your own life as soon as possible. Religious zealotry is not something you can reason with.
 

thylasos

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Well, speaking for myself, I realised I was agnostic (in terms of the Judeo-Christian god) at the age of eleven, which is when I understood entirely what Catholicism as a belief system implied. I got out books on all the major (and some minor) world religions at the age of thirteen or fourteen, and eventually shouted (after calmly explaining my position for half an hour and her refusing to accept it) "I'm not a Catholic!" at my mum, two roads before we got to the church so as not to embarass her in front of other parishoners, and walked home.

As it is, I was fifteen. Being somewhat more mature at 23, I now go along with the rest of the family at Christmas, just to preserve a bit of familial harmony, and am happy to basically not mention my religious beliefs in front of my grandparents. A little bit of white not-telling-the-whole-truth, there.

In the OP's situation, I would most likely simply move out when I could, and play along until then, then live my own life. That is, if you're having beliefs forced on you. As it is, it doesn't sound like you're being forced to read the Qu'ran or pray at every Adhan, so just... live your life. Don't force the issue, then live how you want to.
 

thylasos

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TrilbyWill said:
my gran is very Irish Catholic to the extent that she hates Roman Catholics, and is too sick to get out of he house, except for the time ma had to convince my neighbour to take the car up a very small hill to take gran to church.
my mother is atheist. just try talking about it.
maybe distract him first with things that make him happy.
Irish Catholics are Roman Catholics.

Do you mean Anglicans or Protestants, by any chance?

I suppose it is possible she holds very specific xenophobic views against those who share her religion and happen to live in Rome, though.
 

walrusaurus

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DesiPrinceX09 said:
Thank you, what you said is very true. Well I'm not sure if I made it clear enough (probably didn't) but I have told him that I don't believe what he does, or at least tried. But as I said, he interrupts, doesn't let me finish what I was saying, corrects everything as though he knows the truth, and believes its' just a "phase" I am going through. So round one is done, it's out there that I don't believe; I just need to make it clear. So round two is coming up, any suggestions?
All you really can do is stick to your beliefs. Be unequivocal in future conversations. Calling it a phase is a pretty natural reaction. My mother did it too. I was lucky in that my mother isn't the type of person who would 'disown' their child over something like that. She came around in a month or two, but everyone processes things at their own speed. It may take your father significantly longer. I don't know if you still live with him, but if you do he likely won't even begin to consider that its anything other than teenage angst until your out on your own.

I would caution against throwing their religious principles back in their face. Just because rejecting you you for not sharing thier beliefs is a bit hypocritical doesn't mean pointing that out is going to get you anywhere positive.
 

DesiPrinceX09

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Danyal said:
Can I ask you in what country you live? America? Somewhere in Europe? The Middle East?
Do you live in a community of Muslims?
What kind of education/job does your father have?
Do you have brothers/sisters?
Does your mother wear a veil?
1) from Zambia, live in Houston, TX, USA.
2) There's a lot of Muslims here but technically no
3) Masters degree in Business administration, and was once one of the greatest cars salesman around.
4) yes, older sister; also not religious
5) yes, she does; my mom converted

DVS BSTrD said:
Your dad can't tell you how to feel, just like you can't tell him. He's probably just convinced himself that you're going through a 'phase' and that eventually you'll realize the error of your ways. For some reason my computer won't let me quote posts today so I'll just say do as much as Random berk says and let him know that at least you still believe in god (put it more delicately than that). I can't speak from experience (my old man is kind of a grouch, but he usually yells at me for things like cleaning up after myself). If you haven't already you might want to seriously consider moving out. I can only see things escalating if you stay. There is also the distinct possibility that he might try to force you and your girlfriend to break-up considering the influence she's had. He'll likely blame her for your new-found 'rebelliousness' you don't that dispute added to your current disagreement.

It's not nice to hear, but I know that when people who can't get along stay around each other, it ends badly. You can't trust your dad to have some kind of epiphany of understanding and you're not going to change to his way of thinking, so it's best to er on the side of caution.

Sorry If I've offended you, but I'd much rather you dislike me than you get hurt because I tried to pussy-foot around the issue.
You did not offend at all and I thank you for your advice. And you're right on the money, he is convinced it's a phase, and I will probably let him believe that to stay safe. Very smart observation about my girlfriend also; also right on the money. I do fear very much he will blame her and make us break up, especially since she is obviously not a Muslim. Things are fine right now, I just want to talk about religion with him as little as possible and make my heavy workload from school my main excuse for not doing religious stuff.
 

Palademon

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Well, I've got two muslim friends. One who likes the culture despite being an atheist third generation pakistani, and the other being a theist who moved from pakistan to england, who doesn't follow the rules strictly.

I can honestly say...I have no idea how to help you.
But I wish you well. I'd probably say try telling your dad, but if you can't, don't bother. If he refuses to listen there's no point, and you shouldn't let him effect how you feel.
 

Random berk

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Danyal said:
Random berk said:
Danyal said:
Random berk said:
Danyal said:
Random berk said:
Danyal said:
I got a warning for posting a non-pornographical nude picture in spoiler tags with a warning about the contents. I think the guy above me deserves a more severe punishment.
Why did you do that?
Putting the nude picture in spoiler tags?

http://www.dailydot.com/society/ai-weiwei-nude-photos-censorship/

Don't you know about #nudephotorevolution?
Girl in Egypt posed naked because of all the injustices in Egypt/the Islamic world.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/19/world/meast/nude-blogger-aliaa-magda-elmahdy/index.html


CNN: How do you see women in the "New Egypt" and will you leave the country if the ongoing revolution fails?
Elmahdy: I am not positive at all unless a social revolution erupts. Women under Islam will always be objects to use at home. The (sexism) against women in Egypt is unreal, but I am not going anywhere and will battle it 'til the end. Many women wear the veil just to escape the harassment and be able to walk the streets. I hate how society labels gays and lesbians as abnormal people. Different is not abnormal!
Ah, no, I hadn't heard of it. Its an interesting method of protesting. I'm not sure it isn't counterproductive though.
Counterproductive? In what way? Worsening fundamentalism? Worsening rape? Worsening attacks on unveiled women? Worsening attacks on Christians and Those Without Religion?
Worsening the treatment of women in her country. She said it herself, the population are mostly indoctrinated to believe that women are things to be used, and should not have the freedom that she displays. What she, and just about anyone on this forum will see as taking a stand for women's rights, they will just see it as a woman stepping far out of place, and committing blasphemy or some such nonsense. The people responsible for propagating this view will leap on it and say that this is why women are morally inferior, and should be kept covered up and suppressed, you know the routine.
That's why I hate organized, dogmatic religion. The religions that are still popular today have defenses for every possible assault.
If you question their faith and ask them why they believe dogma's that they know can't be true, they don't bother thinking about the credibility of their religion, they just see you as a 'test of faith'. If they keep believing and ignore you, they have passed the test of faith!
If a women stands up her for her rights, it only demonstrates that you need to keep her stupid and covered in a veil.

It's disgusting and a such a huge cause of suffering.
And it's so bad to notice all the people (lots of them here on the forums!) defending organized, dogmatic faith...

And I'm going to be very controversial and posting a person that is quite hated here with a very racist video, but I need it now to get rid of those negative feelings.

That video should have included the input of the audience member who disagreed with her, and the debate that transpired. As to her point, I wouldn't necessarily agree with the powerful, industrialised nation always being in the right, but the ones who will resort to killing and torturing civilians, either their own or those of their enemies, are always in the wrong.

DesiPrinceX09 said:
1) from Zambia, live in Houston, TX, USA.
2) There's a lot of Muslims here but technically no
3) Masters degree in Business administration, and was once one of the greatest cars salesman around.
4) yes, older sister; also not religious
5) yes, she does; my mom converted
Your mother converted? Damn, I find it hard to get my head around that. A woman being born into a culture that forces indignities on her is one thing, but to willingly enter it in her adulthood? I've never heard of such a thing, or met anyone who would do it.
 

ShindoL Shill

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Jul 11, 2011
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thylasos said:
TrilbyWill said:
my gran is very Irish Catholic to the extent that she hates Roman Catholics, and is too sick to get out of he house, except for the time ma had to convince my neighbour to take the car up a very small hill to take gran to church.
my mother is atheist. just try talking about it.
maybe distract him first with things that make him happy.
Irish Catholics are Roman Catholics.

Do you mean Anglicans or Protestants, by any chance?

I suppose it is possible she holds very specific xenophobic views against those who share her religion and happen to live in Rome, though.
no she hates Protestants too.
but we were doing a crossword, and one of the answers was a jar used by the, in her words "bloody Roman Catholics."
and i know for a fact that she's Irish Catholic. i think she just hates everyone.
 

2xDouble

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Mar 15, 2010
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Led Zeppelin said:
...you know there's two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on.
You have two options: become more religious or become less. Move towards God (whatever you perceive him/her/them/whatever to be) or away. Your parents can't tell you how to feel and neither can we. Either way, hiding under "what if...?" is crippling you.

Mr. Myagi said:
When walk down road: walk right side, safe; walk left side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later, *squick* just like grape.

In karate, same thing: You say "karate do, yes" or "karate do, no". You say "karate do, guess so?", *squick* just like grape.
I have more, but I think you get the idea.

Make a decision and devote yourself fully to it. If you decide later that you made the wrong decision, change your path and devote yourself to that path fully. As long as you're alive, you still have that choice. If your parents stand in your way or don't respect your decisions, then maybe they should be a lesser part of your life.

...ok one more:
Wil Wheaton said:
Just don't be a dick.
That's an important one.
 

DesiPrinceX09

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Mar 14, 2010
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Danyal said:
DesiPrinceX09 said:
Danyal said:
Can I ask you in what country you live? America? Somewhere in Europe? The Middle East?
Do you live in a community of Muslims?
What kind of education/job does your father have?
Do you have brothers/sisters?
Does your mother wear a veil?
1) from Zambia, live in Houston, TX, USA.
2) There's a lot of Muslims here but technically no
3) Masters degree in Business administration, and was once one of the greatest cars salesman around.
4) yes, older sister; also not religious
5) yes, she does; my mom converted
2. Do you/your family have many connections with those Muslims? Does your family pray in a mosque?
4. How does she handle the situation?
5. Your mom converted to Islam? Was she a Christian? Do you have non-muslim grandparents that you can visit?
Connections? Well he does know quite a few people so does that count?
No, only on Friday does my dad go to the Mosque (basically our Sunday) or on special occasions
Yes, my mom converted. She is a Mexican American, raised Catholic. Grandparents from both sides died decades ago unfortunately.