Plot hole(s) in game(s) that are still unanswered.

[Mister K]

Recently I've been reading forums and encountered a thread named " stupidest fictional things" or something and someone mentioned Final Fantasy X and asked something like "why the hell bring Tidus to the Spira? The only thing he is good at is blitzball."

I wanted to answer "well obviously because he is Jecht's son, so he can calm him down a bit" but then I stoped. A question popped in my head "But how the hell did JECHT ended up in Spira?"

Anyhow, after that I thought about making this thread. The rules are simple:
1. Post some plot holes (or something that you think is a plot hole) from videogames, an answer to which you still have not found;
2. Try (if you can) to help previous posters with facts, speculations or anything else.

Let's get down to buisness!

 

[FrozenLaughs]

Don't we already have a thread like this from yesterday? It seems to have been derailed by time travel arguments and Fallout 3.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

The Zanarkand Jecht and Tidus are from is real, located somewhere near the Baaj Temple where Tidus is found at the start. The game tells you that Jecht got lost at sea some years ago, and what they mean is basically he left the "city limits" and ended up outside the

Spoiler

Dream Zanarkand

, drifting at sea. There's actually no time travel or anything of the sort involved.


Anyway, for my question of the week:

In Bioshock Infinite, how did Elizabeth

Spoiler

get her powers?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

If Silent Hill models its horrors based on individual subconscious and "for their eyes only", how come the first two games share the same creature (the Creeper) yet different protagonists? If the monsters from the first game come from Alessa's subconscious, why does James get Creepers thrown at him as well? Similarly, if Pyramid Head is extrapolated from James's mind as his personal torturer, why does the creature appear YEARS BEFORE in a painting at Alessa's home, or for that matter, YEARS LATER to Alex Shepherd? And how come Lisa Garland doesn't realize she's a puppet nurse, what's stopping her from turning? Why did Frank Sunderland keep Walter Sullivan's umbilical chord all those years?

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Heavy Rain.

Pretty much all of it.

Spoiler

Examples are:
- Madison learning the identity of the killer, and being surprised and shocked that it is Shelby, even though he never met her and neither was even aware of each others existence. She later calls Jayden, despite not knowing him either, let alone knowing his number.

- Shelby visits some families of victims of the killer. He receives clues and messages from them sent by the killer. Why do they have that stuff? That's key evidence. Why doesn't the police or FBI have it? At the time you meet them their child is already dead, so there is no reason why they would keep it, unless they're massive masochists and want a souvenir to remember the murder of their kid by.

- Jayden identifies Shelby as the killer based on a type of watch that is traditionally given for promotions. Naturally, the killer must be a cop. Because only a cop could possibly own that particular, commonly available make of watch.

- Jayden has a drug addiction. A debilitating and obvious one. Neither his collegues at the FBI nor the cops in the police station he's working at seem to ever notice something is off about him.

- How the fuck did Shelby set up the Butterfly Trial? Filling a massive labyrinth of narrow tunnels that Ethan only barely fits into with shards of broken glass? With his fat ass?

- In the world of Heavy Rain, you can invade the private residence of a high-profile businessman, slaughter about a dozen of his bodyguards and then possibly put the guy on ice without drawing any attention whatsoever from either the media or the police.

- Ethan's blackouts. Why does he have them at the beginning of the game and why do they eventually stop? Never explained.

 

[Tom_green_day]

I'll mention here that I haven't actually finished the game so take this with a pinch of salt, but why the hell have the people in Uncharted who interact with the El Dorado treasure turned into zombie falmer? Don't get me wrong their inclusion and the fitting tone turned the game from an average tps platformer to a fucking amazing one, but I don't get it.
Also GTA V. When Michael decides to pay Madrazo... Why? Why doesn't he just kill him like he kills everyone else that looks at him funny?

 

[Legion]

People need to stop confusing poor explanations and lack of information for plot holes. Plot holes are lore contradictions and inconsistencies, not something that simply isn't made clear or doesn't fit in with how we expect things to happen.

Anyway, for my question of the week:

In Bioshock Infinite, how did Elizabeth

Spoiler

get her powers?

This for example isn't a plot hole. Even if it wasn't explained it still wouldn't be.

Spoiler: Bioshock Infinite spoilers

Elizabeth went through one of those tears thanks to the Lutice's machine when Comstock traded with Booker. If you recall, her little finger on one hand was severed and kept on the other side of the tear. The theory is that this is what caused her to be able to use them. The fact that the same her technically exists in multiple tears gave her the ability to open them.

Also GTA V. When Michael decides to pay Madrazo... Why? Why doesn't he just kill him like he kills everyone else that looks at him funny?

Again, this is not a plot hole. Unless characters are previously established as being flawless, then doing something stupid or out of character is not a plot hole, it is just bad writing.

 

[The Madman]

In Bioshock Infinite, when traveling to a parallel world are there two Elizabeth? Booker's native doppelganger is always dead whenever the pair enter a new world, but we hear nothing about Elizabeth. And if there are two of her, does that mean she's killed when the tower is destroyed? Shouldn't Elizabeth be getting the whole nosebleed thing in that case, or is she immune for some reason?

Also why does getting baptized have a 100% evil ratio? By definition in an infinite universe anything that can happen will happen, meaning what about the infinite versions of Booker that were baptized and then went on to be good people? What about the Booker that got baptized, killed Hitler, and saved a bunch of children from a burning orphanage? Is that one dead now too because of evil baptism version, or does the baptism give a 100% evil conversion, in which case why? Hell, what about the infinite worlds out there where Elizabeth couldn't do it and didn't kill him? It's possible, and again in an infinite universe if it can happen it will happen, so what about that scenario? Does that scenario cancel out the murder one, or the other way around, or what?

Are infinite Elizabeth now waging an infinite war across infinite parallel worlds in an effort to kill Hitler Booker or what?

Also, what's with the plasmids? It's made clear that plasmids are in Columbia because some scientists spied on Rapture through a dimensional portal thingy (convenient) but even so, it still doesn't explain how they're being made. In Bioshock it's pointed out that plasmids are made using a rare sea slug they're harvesting underwater, thus a good chunk of the reason for even having an underwater city and why the world at large has no access to these things. So how the hell does a flying city have access to an extremely rare sea slug in such quantities to be mass producing plasmids?

Bah!

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

This for example isn't a plot hole. Even if it wasn't explained it still wouldn't be.

Didn't think it was a plot hole, more like something left unanswered (I kinda misread the OP and thought we were supposed to ask something that was left unexplained). And I didn't even think of that reason as to why that happened, but it kinda fits. Thanks.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

If Silent Hill models its horrors based on individual subconscious and "for their eyes only", how come the first two games share the same creature (the Creeper) yet different protagonists? If the monsters from the first game come from Alessa's subconscious, why does James get Creepers thrown at him as well? Similarly, if Pyramid Head is extrapolated from James's mind as his personal torturer, why does the creature appear YEARS BEFORE in a painting at Alessa's home, or for that matter, YEARS LATER to Alex Shepherd? And how come Lisa Garland doesn't realize she's a puppet nurse, what's stopping her from turning? Why did Frank Sunderland keep Walter Sullivan's umbilical chord all those years?

Man, you are trying to make sense of a game series that is so twisted that you are going to drive yourself insane if you keep that up. All very good points, mind you, but they can all easily be brushed away by, "The town is possessed and evil, and plays by its own rules." I think that's part of the fun of Silent Hill. Just when you think you've figured it out, it changes the name of the game.
And who is Alex? Because la-la-la-that-game-doesn't-exist-la-la-la-I'm-not-listening!!!

I posted this in the other thread we had yesterday. Where was

Spoiler

Alex Mason

during all the stuff that was going down in Black Ops II? There is no possible way it took him decades to heal, and yet he just pops up at the end like it's not big deal. Where were you?!

 

[Mikejames]

If Silent Hill models its horrors based on individual subconscious and "for their eyes only", how come the first two games share the same creature (the Creeper) yet different protagonists?

Similarly, if Pyramid Head is extrapolated from James's mind as his personal torturer, why does the creature appear YEARS BEFORE in a painting at Alessa's home, or for that matter, YEARS LATER to Alex Shepherd?

While people can debate whether or not Pyramid Head had any historical significance outside of James's story, I think it's just a repeated misstep by the newer developers. They saw PH was popular and decided to bring his design back for an iconic callback, despite him having no real significance in the other stories.

And I guess I never saw a big connection for the Creepers in SH2. Just hostile bugs that didn't need much explanation.

And how come Lisa Garland doesn't realize she's a puppet nurse, what's stopping her from turning?

Spoiler

I believe the idea was that Harry never really met the real Lisa Garland. With the real one dead the Lisa he met was just another part of the town, and part of Alessa's nightmare. She acted kind like Alessa perceived her to be, but when she realized what she was I guess the illusion of it kind of dropped.

Why did Frank Sunderland keep Walter Sullivan's umbilical chord all those years?

The guy was a loon for the sake of exposition. Why do you think James never calls him?

 

[EyeReaper]

Where are the weight divisions in Punch Out? there is no way someone thought that those were fair fights.

On a more serious note, who was the Mysterious man in the fog in Persona 4? I think it's supposed to be

Spoiler

Adachi

but.. I dunno, it doesn't mesh well with his motivation I think. But I also can't think of anyone else who could fit the role.

 

[Ruisu]

Well... In Prototype, just where the hell is that Pariah child anyway? It's so annoying how they COMPLETELY ignore that major plot point in Prototype 2, and even in the prequel comic. Is almost as if the writers of the second game never cared to even look at a summary of the Web of Intrigue from the first game.

And now Radical is gone, and we'll never get another Prototype, and hell, even if we did, is likely they still would ignore Pariah.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Heavy Rain.

Pretty much all of it.

Spoiler

Examples are:
- Madison learning the identity of the killer, and being surprised and shocked that it is Shelby, even though he never met her and neither was even aware of each others existence. She later calls Jayden, despite not knowing him either, let alone knowing his number.

- Shelby visits some families of victims of the killer. He receives clues and messages from them sent by the killer. Why do they have that stuff? That's key evidence. Why doesn't the police or FBI have it? At the time you meet them their child is already dead, so there is no reason why they would keep it, unless they're massive masochists and want a souvenir to remember the murder of their kid by.

- Jayden identifies Shelby as the killer based on a type of watch that is traditionally given for promotions. Naturally, the killer must be a cop. Because only a cop could possibly own that particular, commonly available make of watch.

- Jayden has a drug addiction. A debilitating and obvious one. Neither his collegues at the FBI nor the cops in the police station he's working at seem to ever notice something is off about him.

- How the fuck did Shelby set up the Butterfly Trial? Filling a massive labyrinth of narrow tunnels that Ethan only barely fits into with shards of broken glass? With his fat ass?

- In the world of Heavy Rain, you can invade the private residence of a high-profile businessman, slaughter about a dozen of his bodyguards and then possibly put the guy on ice without drawing any attention whatsoever from either the media or the police.

- Ethan's blackouts. Why does he have them at the beginning of the game and why do they eventually stop? Never explained.

There at least exists a plausible explanation for one of those:

Spoiler

Ethan's injuries following the wreck could have easily included a traumatic brain injury that has as symptoms his various blackouts.

The one that bugs me though is:

Spoiler

The segment in the pawn shop where Shelby literally never had the opportunity to murder the proprietor only to be told hours later that Shelby totally murdered the guy

 

[RJ 17]

People need to stop confusing poor explanations and lack of information for plot holes. Plot holes are lore contradictions and inconsistencies, not something that simply isn't made clear or doesn't fit in with how we expect things to happen.

Spoiler: You mean like the plot-hole big enough to drive a semi truck through with regards to the ending of Bioshock Infinite?

I'm referring to the fact that the plan to "kill" Comstock simply wouldn't work...purely because of the concept of infinite realities. If every choice spawns a universe in which the opposite (or at least some other) choice is made, then what about the choice to drown Booker?

Oh and spare me the tired "Well that choice was made out in the Limbo area with all the lighthouses so it doesn't count! No universes are spawned from there!" excuse. Because even assuming that's true (despite the fact that it's never established), Booker didn't decide to drown himself outside in the lighthouse area, he decided that he was going to go kill Comstock. The fact that he IS Comstock and therefor killing Comstock would require killing himself at the baptism doesn't occur to him until just before the lynch-gang of Elizabeth's push him under the water. Right there, he makes the choice to commit suicide by allowing the Elizabeths to drown him. As such, if drowning him could indeed kill of Comstock, then universes can officially be manipulated, created, destroyed, etc at that point. Therefor a new universe was spawned in which Booker said "FUCK THAT!" and fought away from the Elizabeths, refusing the sacrifice.

Furthermore, doesn't the very existence of Burial At Sea kinda prove that the plan to kill Comstock failed? For full disclosure, I'll confess that I haven't played to the end of this "first episode" yet, but the fact that TransUniversal Elizabeth still exists kinda implies that Comstock himself still exists, considering that if they had successfully wiped out every possible Comstock in existence, then there wouldn't have ever been a super-powered Elizabeth since there never would have been a Comstock to pull her through a wall and nip her pinkie off.

 

[Wraith]

Well... In Prototype, just where the hell is that Pariah child anyway? It's so annoying how they COMPLETELY ignore that major plot point in Prototype 2, and even in the prequel comic. Is almost as if the writers of the second game never cared to even look at a summary of the Web of Intrigue from the first game.

And now Radical is gone, and we'll never get another Prototype, and hell, even if we did, is likely they still would ignore Pariah.

In a Web of Intrigue flashback, one of the scientist states that Pariah is being kept at the Vanderberg Air Force Base in California. He is safely locked away, possibly under even more extreme measures than they had Greene so it could be that they overlooked Pariah, because he could never be a real threat under that much security.

I too wanted to see what they'd do with him, but I was still happy with P2.

 

[RJ 17]

Also GTA V. When Michael decides to pay Madrazo... Why? Why doesn't he just kill him like he kills everyone else that looks at him funny?

Well, to be fair, most of the people that Michael kills aren't at the head of exceedingly dangerous and firmly established crime syndicates.

 

[Ruisu]

In a Web of Intrigue flashback, one of the scientist states that Pariah is being kept at the Vanderberg Air Force Base in California. He is safely locked away, possibly under even more extreme measures than they had Greene so it could be that they overlooked Pariah, because he could never be a real threat under that much security.

I too wanted to see what they'd do with him, but I was still happy with P2.

Ah, I remember that, when I said "where is him" I meant in the series itself. Mercer by the end of the game seemed determined to find more about Pariah.
I would hardly agree that military security can hold Pariah down, since he could kill soldiers without even touching them, and it was speculated by Macmullen (if I'm not mistaken at least), that Mercer and Pariah were quite similar in more ways than one, so you could expect him to be at least as powerful.
Prototype 2 was awesome and all, it just frustates me a bit that they never really followed up from the first, almost like a soft reboot.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

People need to stop confusing poor explanations and lack of information for plot holes. Plot holes are lore contradictions and inconsistencies, not something that simply isn't made clear or doesn't fit in with how we expect things to happen.

Spoiler: You mean like the plot-hole big enough to drive a semi truck through with regards to the ending of Bioshock Infinite?

I'm referring to the fact that the plan to "kill" Comstock simply wouldn't work...purely because of the concept of infinite realities. If every choice spawns a universe in which the opposite (or at least some other) choice is made, then what about the choice to drown Booker?

Oh and spare me the tired "Well that choice was made out in the Limbo area with all the lighthouses so it doesn't count! No universes are spawned from there!" excuse. Because even assuming that's true (despite the fact that it's never established), Booker didn't decide to drown himself outside in the lighthouse area, he decided that he was going to go kill Comstock. The fact that he IS Comstock and therefor killing Comstock would require killing himself at the baptism doesn't occur to him until just before the lynch-gang of Elizabeth's push him under the water. Right there, he makes the choice to commit suicide by allowing the Elizabeths to drown him. As such, if drowning him could indeed kill of Comstock, then universes can officially be manipulated, created, destroyed, etc at that point. Therefor a new universe was spawned in which Booker said "FUCK THAT!" and fought away from the Elizabeths, refusing the sacrifice.

Furthermore, doesn't the very existence of Burial At Sea kinda prove that the plan to kill Comstock failed? For full disclosure, I'll confess that I haven't played to the end of this "first episode" yet, but the fact that TransUniversal Elizabeth still exists kinda implies that Comstock himself still exists, considering that if they had successfully wiped out every possible Comstock in existence, then there wouldn't have ever been a super-powered Elizabeth since there never would have been a Comstock to pull her through a wall and nip her pinkie off.

Spoiler

They wiped out Columbia Comstock, Van Braun and Rapture Comstock are still at large and they need a different method to kill him. They need to find another "sigularity point", the pivotal moment where Comstock created another dystopia.

 

[RJ 17]

People need to stop confusing poor explanations and lack of information for plot holes. Plot holes are lore contradictions and inconsistencies, not something that simply isn't made clear or doesn't fit in with how we expect things to happen.

Spoiler: You mean like the plot-hole big enough to drive a semi truck through with regards to the ending of Bioshock Infinite?

I'm referring to the fact that the plan to "kill" Comstock simply wouldn't work...purely because of the concept of infinite realities. If every choice spawns a universe in which the opposite (or at least some other) choice is made, then what about the choice to drown Booker?

Oh and spare me the tired "Well that choice was made out in the Limbo area with all the lighthouses so it doesn't count! No universes are spawned from there!" excuse. Because even assuming that's true (despite the fact that it's never established), Booker didn't decide to drown himself outside in the lighthouse area, he decided that he was going to go kill Comstock. The fact that he IS Comstock and therefor killing Comstock would require killing himself at the baptism doesn't occur to him until just before the lynch-gang of Elizabeth's push him under the water. Right there, he makes the choice to commit suicide by allowing the Elizabeths to drown him. As such, if drowning him could indeed kill of Comstock, then universes can officially be manipulated, created, destroyed, etc at that point. Therefor a new universe was spawned in which Booker said "FUCK THAT!" and fought away from the Elizabeths, refusing the sacrifice.

Furthermore, doesn't the very existence of Burial At Sea kinda prove that the plan to kill Comstock failed? For full disclosure, I'll confess that I haven't played to the end of this "first episode" yet, but the fact that TransUniversal Elizabeth still exists kinda implies that Comstock himself still exists, considering that if they had successfully wiped out every possible Comstock in existence, then there wouldn't have ever been a super-powered Elizabeth since there never would have been a Comstock to pull her through a wall and nip her pinkie off.

Spoiler

They wiped out Columbia Comstock, Van Braun and Rapture Comstock are still at large and they need a different method to kill him. They need to find another "sigularity point", the pivotal moment where Comstock created another dystopia.

Spoiler: Wait a tick...

I'm guessing that's something you find out at the end of Burial At Sea. No worries if it is, I won't complain about you spoiling it for me or anything. If it is, however, it does indeed completely negate the entire point of the ending to the original story. The whole point of drowning Booker at the baptism was so you could kill Comstock before he's even "born". So yeah, mission failed, apparently.

And that still doesn't address the fact that a new universe is created when Booker allows himself to be drown, thus creating a universe in which he refused to allow himself to be drown.