Plots That Made You Say, "No, Just Stop!"

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Fsyco

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DrOswald said:
deathbydeath said:
Mechamorph said:
I'd mention Twilight but that's low hanging fruit; its basically a "love" triangle involving necrophilia and bestiality that was solved by adding pedophilia.
You're forgetting to mention the fact that you can interpret the works as pro-Mormon propaganda from Meyer.
I have heard this before, and I am genuinely curious how this works. What I know about Twilight doesn't readily lend itself as propaganda to espouse what I know of Mormon beliefs. I know this is a bit off topic, but can you elaborate? I am genuinely curious.
It has to do with enforcing gender norms and it's depictions of gender and sex. There's loads of articles on the subject if you're interested, but the basic gist is that it's about a lustful, defenseless woman who needs a strong, sensible man to convince her how awesome abstinence is and how evil sex is. They don't do the dirty till they get married, and I've heard that her treatment of sex is like something out of Dead Space.

C.TYR said:
Fsyco said:
Then again, I don't like Dark Souls, so maybe I just have crap taste in games.
No, Dark Souls is one of if not my favorite game ever, good sir. You may just be having the sort of opinion where "it's so bad, it's good", which, if it is the case, is something opinionated and can't really be argued.

Frankly, I despise everything Mr. Cage has made entirely and I am made even more upset when people look to his work for examples of story-telling in gaming, when it is absolutely horrid. This hurts the gaming industry in my mind, for there are far better games where story-telling is 100x better and also more compelling than David Cage's work. Like in Dark Souls.
Not gonna lie, I thought Dark Souls had really weak story-telling and plot. Maybe it's because I'm a bit of a sadist, and don't enjoy feelings of loneliness or oppression.
I wouldn't say "it's so bad it's good", just that some parts were good enough in my opinion to overcome it's flaws. I'm one of those sad saps that thought HR and BTS were, in fact, quite emotional >.> I can acknowledge the flaws in things I like though. Metal Gear Solid is the same way for me. It's entertaining and compelling enough that I can overlook the flaws (and believe me, MGS has some serious flaws).
 

DrOswald

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Fsyco said:
DrOswald said:
Fsyco said:
Alexei F. Karamazov said:
The only specific instance I can think of at the moment is The Dark Knight Rises. "We've got this nuclear FUSION reactor beneath the city! Oh no! The villains came in and turned it into a nuclear FISSION bomb in a matter of minutes with no specialized equipment!" One of the many plot holes that riddled the film, but I think this is one of the worst, seeing as though the entire plot is practically driven by the threat of a nuclear explosion from a FISSION bomb that used to be a FUSION reactor. Seriously, have they even taken high school chemistry?
Do they teach that in high school chemistry classes? I don't remember that being in either high school or college level chem. Or at least, the college class that I took (which is just the first intro class, it could very well have been covered in the second). I'm a physics major, though, so we covered it in modern physics.
I agree that it's irritating when people do that kind of crap with nuclear reactors. Especially when they go on about the thing reaching 'critical', which in actuality is what it's SUPPOSED to do to generate power. And plots based around inaccurate physics in general. I don't mind single minor instances of it, but when something central to the movie is based around something working in a way that it doesn't, that pulls me right out.
What really bothers me is when a work of fiction breaks the rules that it establishes. You can break physical laws, but you need to be consistent about it. Like Star Trek - You can go teleport, but the teleporters have rules. When you break those rules it undermines the work.

Recently, a most horrible example of this occurs in Gravity. Major spoilers ahead:

I can buy many of the frankly stupid things that happen in the movie because they are necessary for it to work. The premise is fundamentally flawed, but I can deal with it. But then they broke their own rules in the single most important scene in the movie. Basically, whenever someone gets to the end of a rope they experience a whiplash effect that causes them to bounce back, lose control and basically fly all over the place. But during the most important scene in the entire movie, George Clooney's death scene, they break the rule. Instead the rope remains tight and he has to sacrifice himself. At the critical moment when they need the whiplash effect the writers turned it off because it was inconvenient. And then 5 minutes later it is turned back on and is happening again. It completely broke that scene for me, which basically ruined the movie.
Haven't seen the movie (and I already knew that spoiler) but speaking as a student of physics...
That 'whiplash' effect is caused by springiness and Newton's Third Law, which causes really weird shit to happen in space. So you'd only see bouncing if someone went to the end of the rope really fast and the other end of the rope was fixed. If the other end of the rope was moving, it would stay taut. Again, haven't seen it, so I have no idea what the circumstances are. But I did hear physicists and engineers complaining about the mechanics gaffes, and the rope thing wasn't mentioned.
More spoilers!

Ok, lets get into detail. They come at the space station at a speed. As they fly past they, essentially, grab a rope that is attached to the space station. At this point, there is no force working on the astronauts. The only thing giving them speed is their momentum. The rope becomes taut and they are now immobile when compared to the frame of reference of the space station. But George Clooney is still experiencing some force as if he were hanging off a cliff, which is pulling the rope away from Sandra Bullock (the rope is threatening to become undone under the constant force.) He then calmly explains that there is no way they can both make it, which last about 10 seconds. He then disconnects himself and immediately falls away from the space station. At this point the ropes stop being taut and Sandra is able to pull herself towards the space station.

Now, they were going fast enough that the whiplash effect should have occurred, and it does occur with those same exact ropes later on. Unless I am much mistaken they got that scene wrong, but even if it was right the real problem is that they broke their own rules. Things did not work consistently.
 

Keiichi Morisato

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sidewinder fang said:
Sword Art Online comes to mind, I watched a few episodes and couldn't stomach anymore after I figured out the basic plot SPOILER, everybody except the main character dies in the most tragic way possible.

Deus ex human revolution as well, anybody who's played it know what I mean, the ending kind of went off a cliff, into psedo intellectual crappy film studies multiple choice bullshit cutscene land.

Also, speaking of crappy multiple choice endings, Mass Effect 3, someone had to mention it.
Mass Effect 3 a Deus Ex: HR, tried to pull off the "Ghost in the Shell" type ending, but where Ghost in the Shell succeeds is that the philosophy discussion is foreshadowed rather early on, setting up the tone of the story and the conflict at hand, the ending helped wrapped up everything that the show/film was trying to convey. of Mass Effect and Dues Ex: HR, i think Deus Ex: HR did a better job.

for me, i groan when there is a harem and lots of fan service that completely takes over the story, especially when the actual plot and setting of the story is really interesting and well put together, a great example of this is Sora no Otoshimono (Heaven's Lost Property).
 

DrOswald

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Fsyco said:
DrOswald said:
deathbydeath said:
Mechamorph said:
I'd mention Twilight but that's low hanging fruit; its basically a "love" triangle involving necrophilia and bestiality that was solved by adding pedophilia.
You're forgetting to mention the fact that you can interpret the works as pro-Mormon propaganda from Meyer.
I have heard this before, and I am genuinely curious how this works. What I know about Twilight doesn't readily lend itself as propaganda to espouse what I know of Mormon beliefs. I know this is a bit off topic, but can you elaborate? I am genuinely curious.
It has to do with enforcing gender norms and it's depictions of gender and sex. There's loads of articles on the subject if you're interested, but the basic gist is that it's about a lustful, defenseless woman who needs a strong, sensible man to convince her how awesome abstinence is and how evil sex is. They don't do the dirty till they get married, and I've heard that her treatment of sex is like something out of Dead Space.
Well, I can immediately tell you that Mormons do not believe sex is evil. Also, in my experiences with Mormons (and I spend a lot of time around Mormons) men are generally the sex considered prone to weakness when it comes to sin of a sexual nature. It's not exactly a belief, more like a pervading and enduring stereotype, but it is often said that the women help the men keep in line. If anything that is an inversion of Mormon culture. Mormons do believe in abstinence before marriage, but I am not sure how including that particular bit is Mormon propaganda, tons of religions believe that. Any religiously conservative author is not going to have sex before marriage.

I think the whole "twilight is propaganda" angle is strange. I read a couple articles on this and it seems more like cultural influence on a bad writer than propaganda. Most of the big stuff people have written (like sex being evil) is just plain incorrect, and lots of the other things are just the result of Bella being a crappy self insert Mary Sue - of course the Mary Sue is going to act Mormon, she was written by a Mormon. That hardly makes it propaganda.
 

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Hawkeye21 said:
Helix I hated from ep.1 because every single character on this show (and this show is about scientists / researchers) suffers from an acute form of being pants-on-head retarded. I still watched a couple of episodes for entertainment value (read: shits and giggles), but novelty wore off fast.
I... kinda have to agree with Helix on this one, even though I still have no idea how I should feel about Season 2 premiering NEXT year... Shit just goes fuck-who-knows-where even before Ep. 6, I think, and once the finale was over, all I had to say was...
Uh... Okay... So, should I care that over 200 days have passed since the base exploded with "little to no" survivers remaining except the two brothers and, possibly, the chick who slept (and got impregnated) with the head scientist/main character, since she was technically now immortal because "she, too, has the eyes"? Also, do you expect me to wait a whole year for you guys to get your next story together, since you basically blew up the location most of this series has been taking place so far Season 2??

I will say, though, that I have grown attached to the show's theme music... It just made things a lot funnier, especially when you listen to it out of context, let alone IN context if you want to get technical...
 

immortalfrieza

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Vegosiux said:
Pretty much every time I see the "MANDATORY ROMANTIC SUBPLOT" neon sign above some character's head, especially in a work where it feels shoehorned in.
I don't really mind romance plots in a work, just as long as it's done well and not the only plot of significance in said work. When it consumes a work entirely is when I have issues with it, since if I wanted to watch a romance story I would have picked up one instead of a movie about battle robots or whatever in the first place.

What I always have an issue with is love triangles. Not only because open relationships are uncommon but exist in this day and age so there's really no reason for love triangles to exist, but because they never make any sense. It's always a choice between some amoral sociopath no sane person would go anywhere near and some perfect little angel that no sane person wouldn't have a relationship with on the spot, not two about equally good people that the third might actually have reason to choose. What's worse is these triangles ALWAYS are what carries the work, and as such is dragged on as much as possible long after anyone would still be in this tug or war and long after the audience would ever be interested if they were to begin with. This is especially bad with a TV series since they end up having to drag said triangle out for YEARS.
The Wykydtron said:
Practically anything that involved alternate dimensions and/or time travel. Especially so if they were never part of the core plot of the show and were just introduced halfway through.
Another one I don't have a problem with as a general concept, but when it takes a particular form. I HATE time travel and dimension hopping stories that don't lead to anything. For instance, if it's a time travel story about stopping some villain who's screwing with time, I can get behind that. However, if it's a time travel story that ends with the protagonist going back and stopping the story from ever happening to begin with, then why did the audience ever see that to begin with? Especially in a series that then continues as though nothing happened because it didn't, there is no significance to seeing such a thing. As for alternate dimensions I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be any unless those dimensions are going to be explored. For instance, I love Star Trek's mirror universe as a concept, a much more immoral universe that allows for plotlines that could never happen in the prime universe due to the utopian nature of it. However, since the mirror universe is only something that's popped into for an episode or two every once in a while rather than something that shown as a series in itself, it squanders it's incredible potential. I'd say the Chrono game series is probably the best at avoiding both of these pitfalls.
 

Megalodon

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Mechamorph said:
Another is probably Harry Potter; while well-written, Rowling herself admitted that she had to leave logic and good sense at the door or there would be no story. Voldemort might be tough against another wizard, not so much a modern day infantry section carrying their firearms. If the Ministry of Magic had even a lick of sense about them, Old Noseless never could have gotten as far as he did. Basically everyone in a position of authority had to be incompetent or powerless (or dead), how else could children have been the pivotal actors in stopping a world-ending threat?
There's ignoring logic and good sense (hell, I'm far too much of a 40k fan to demand sense and logic all the time), but Harry Potter takes it to new levels (which is also part of the reason I'd dispute well written). Ignoring things like the Time Turner, only explaining elements of how your magic works in the 6th/7th book on the series (or so I've heard, didn't read that far personally), the tri wizard mess etc., all of which could have been avoided or implemented better.

As for the OP, it was the 5th book that I had my 'just no' moment with. Specifically the finale, 6 16 year old schoolchildren break into the highest security area of the Wizard government (potentially the magic MI5/6 analogue), this is followed by 2 illegal paramilitary organisation also breaking into the heart of government, and having a running battle through the halls of power. At no point does any form of Ministry security show up to intervene (or if it does, it was so pathetic I couldn't remember it 5 minutes after finishing the book). This is akin to the IRA and UVF invading Westminster to kill/rescue some GCSE students that have already broken in, and the Police/Army not showing up to do something about it.
 

Roxor

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Any plot which involves handing the Idiot Ball to a character who isn't an established idiot. Doubly so if it's the whole cast handling it.
 

Callate

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We've spent the first 3/4 of the story making this character annoying, now... feel sorry for them! Ha ha ha ha ha! Dance, puppets! Dance!

(See: City Slickers 2, Identity Theft (according to the reviews- I refused to see it because I knew it was going to pull this), and at least half of Adam Sandler's movies.)

How about no, story.

Even worse: We've spent the first 3/4 of the story making this character unbearable, now... recognize their incredible power and importance to the plot!

(See: Wicked City, some Dawn-related Buffy episodes, some Skye-related Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episodes, Wesley Crusher...)
 

Fsyco

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DrOswald said:
Fsyco said:
DrOswald said:
deathbydeath said:
Mechamorph said:
I'd mention Twilight but that's low hanging fruit; its basically a "love" triangle involving necrophilia and bestiality that was solved by adding pedophilia.
You're forgetting to mention the fact that you can interpret the works as pro-Mormon propaganda from Meyer.
I have heard this before, and I am genuinely curious how this works. What I know about Twilight doesn't readily lend itself as propaganda to espouse what I know of Mormon beliefs. I know this is a bit off topic, but can you elaborate? I am genuinely curious.
It has to do with enforcing gender norms and it's depictions of gender and sex. There's loads of articles on the subject if you're interested, but the basic gist is that it's about a lustful, defenseless woman who needs a strong, sensible man to convince her how awesome abstinence is and how evil sex is. They don't do the dirty till they get married, and I've heard that her treatment of sex is like something out of Dead Space.
Well, I can immediately tell you that Mormons do not believe sex is evil. Also, in my experiences with Mormons (and I spend a lot of time around Mormons) men are generally the sex considered prone to weakness when it comes to sin of a sexual nature. It's not exactly a belief, more like a pervading and enduring stereotype, but it is often said that the women help the men keep in line. If anything that is an inversion of Mormon culture. Mormons do believe in abstinence before marriage, but I am not sure how including that particular bit is Mormon propaganda, tons of religions believe that. Any religiously conservative author is not going to have sex before marriage.

I think the whole "twilight is propaganda" angle is strange. I read a couple articles on this and it seems more like cultural influence on a bad writer than propaganda. Most of the big stuff people have written (like sex being evil) is just plain incorrect, and lots of the other things are just the result of Bella being a crappy self insert Mary Sue - of course the Mary Sue is going to act Mormon, she was written by a Mormon. That hardly makes it propaganda.
Fair enough. I'm not particularly knowledgeable on either subject (I attempted reading it once in high school and gave up, and used to know and briefly dated a Mormon girl in high school), I was just explaining how the argument goes. Unintentional propaganda is still propaganda, but she may, in fact, not have any sinister ulterior motives behind whatever she writes. Maybe they're just bizarre, slightly unhealthy fantasies.
 
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Mechamorph said:
Another is probably Harry Potter; while well-written, Rowling herself admitted that she had to leave logic and good sense at the door or there would be no story. Voldemort might be tough against another wizard, not so much a modern day infantry section carrying their firearms. If the Ministry of Magic had even a lick of sense about them, Old Noseless never could have gotten as far as he did. Basically everyone in a position of authority had to be incompetent or powerless (or dead), how else could children have been the pivotal actors in stopping a world-ending threat?
Well I think the first bit is covered under the blanket statement of muggle tech doesn't work around magic, but even if it did, the culture of the magical community comes across as far too conservative for them to look to muggles for help. As for the second, I thought a bungling ministry was actually quite clever, firstly it made sense within the universe as I felt it was a believable result of the again fairly conservative and somewhat backwards thinking culture that seems to pretty strong in the magical community, and secondly, to me at least, it does justify certain story elements, like why Dumbledore turns to Harry and the Order of the Phoenix instead seeking ministry help to hunt down the horcruxes.

Anyways, rant incoming because I'm going to go with the Assassin's Creed series and Far Cry 3, because I want to shout at Far Cry 3's story for making me angry and I might as well cover both of Ubisoft's recent abysmal attempts at a story, especially when both started out looking quite promising. For Assissin's Creed, the story wasn't actually bad at all in the first game. It was in no way exceptional mind, but I liked the moral ambiguity of it, how Altair started wondering why he was killing these people as the Templars themselves told him of how they believed they were doing good. Then Assassin's Creed 2 came along and the story went into b action movie mode; cheeky likable hero trying to avenge family against impossibly evil secret order of super bad guys, with a few aliens and some worldwide peril tossed in for good measure. Pretty much every AC story since then as been a rinse and repeat of the same basic concepts.

Now for Far Cry 3, which also started out looking reasonably interesting, with the lead character at first coming across quite uncomfortable and out of place in the hail of bullets that fps protagonists tend to find themselves, the game seems to want to be playing on the concept of how this sort of violence would actually effect a person. Unfortunately when the story actually gets going, it falls flat on it's face in this attempt, due mostly to one character, Vaas. However, let's start with the other characters, the few times in the early game that the story starts poking at the fact your character is becoming frighteningly comfortable with violence, it's through his friends that you've rescued. However they turn out to be some of the most despicably self-centred assholes in the game, rendering their criticisms of you pretty mute in my view. To provide and example of this, the most upset they get is when Brody is breaking up with his girlfriend at which point they all start bitching at him for being so insensitive, this being only days after his brother just died in his arms and he's gone off killing dozens of people, risking his life to save each one of them so they can sit around and do fuck all. The other main way the game tries to explore violence is through it's big poster baddy Vaas, one, by simply demonstrating Vaas' capacity for violence and two by trying to draw parallels between your character and Vaas. The problems come firstly from the fact the game hits you over the head with it's comparisons to Vaas, constantly showing scenes cutting between Brody and Vaas doing the same thing, presumably just in case there are five year olds playing who did not quite understand immediately that both Vaas and Brody are violent people. The real problem however is that you never see Vaas, he turns up about three times then you're done with him and you move to next big bad guy. Sometimes it works when a antagonist is elusive and intangible, but the point of a character like Vaas is the opposite of that, we're supposed to know them intimately enough that we feel like they are truly our character's nemesis and so when they start pointing towards the similarities between our character and Vaas it relates to aspects of Vaas we've actually experienced and not just pieces of hearsay from his sister. In the end Vaas just feels like a waste of a character, when he's meant to be the focal point of so much of the story.

Edit, because I have another one; Terminator 2. I recently watched Terminator 2 for the first time in about 10 years, because I remembered it the only James Cameroon movie I'd seen that wasn't painfully mediocre. I actually enjoyed what I suppose must have been the first half of the movie, but then it starts slowing down for a few scenes. Arnie and the gang turn up at one of Sarah Connor's old not really war buddies to stock up. It is at this point in the movie that we hear a monologue from Sarah Connor's brain announcing that she has come to the conclusion that this terminator is the best possible father figure for her son. This is the exact model of terminator who hunted her throughout the first movie, killed the man who she apparently loved and was the father of her child, amoungst the many others she saw it kill, and got her locked away in a brutal asylum for around decade. Her entire life for the last 15 years or so has been dedicated to preparing for war with these things, she is constantly dreaming about the destruction they will bring, yet one turns up and within two days she decides she not only trusts it, but that it is the best father figure there has ever been for her son.
 

Storm Dragon

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Fsyco said:
Haven't read the manga, and, as far as I know, the OVA is only up to the point where
Walter turns on Alucard.
So whatever you put in that spoiler tag, I probably haven't seen it yet. Although it sounds like my theory is wrong, which disappoints me because I thought it made a lot of sense.
 

Fsyco

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Storm Dragon said:
Fsyco said:
Haven't read the manga, and, as far as I know, the OVA is only up to the point where
Walter turns on Alucard.
So whatever you put in that spoiler tag, I probably haven't seen it yet. Although it sounds like my theory is wrong, which disappoints me because I thought it made a lot of sense.
All 10 episodes of the OVA are out, actually. I'll be damned if I actually have to read a manga >.> But yes, your theory is wrong. Go watch the last episode or two, since it sounds like you were on the second to last one, and the last episode makes some things make sense (although the major plan to beat Alucard is quite possibly the most retarded thing I've ever seen).
Or, at least, the last episode is out in Japanese with English subtitles. No idea if the dubbed version is out.
 

DudeistBelieve

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sidewinder fang said:
Sword Art Online comes to mind, I watched a few episodes and couldn't stomach anymore after I figured out the basic plot SPOILER, everybody except the main character dies in the most tragic way possible.

Deus ex human revolution as well, anybody who's played it know what I mean, the ending kind of went off a cliff, into psedo intellectual crappy film studies multiple choice bullshit cutscene land.

Also, speaking of crappy multiple choice endings, Mass Effect 3, someone had to mention it.
In Deus Ex, they don't even reunite Jensen with his girlfriend.

And I wouldn't complain except I brutally murdered her mother and had her corpse laying in the bed of Jensen's apartment* for like a week and I wanted to see how she would react.

(*Actually, had quite a few corpses in Jensen's place. It was like a party.)
 

HellbirdIV

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"Commander Shepard, we found something on Mars that might be the key to stopping the Reapers."

*Facedesk*
 

debtcollector

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neoontime said:
2nd part of Durarara 1st season.
Seriously that show had a original characters and a cool storyline that they just threw away for a wave of unoriginal, convenient plot points. I had high hopes that this would be an anime that distances itself from the other crap, but they just had to have those crappy plot points of:
His joker best friend just happens to be the leader of the second toughest gang in the city and his love interest is the vessel of the demon sword
Dammit Durarara, I gave you such a chance to be one of my favorite animes and you killed it with not even a finished season.
Out of curiosity, how does that ruin the show? A big theme of the show is that everyone has secrets; hell, they explicitly say that in the second episode, and demonstrate it during the first meeting of the Dollars. So if every character has these hidden depths, why would the protagonist and his friends be exempt? Granted, it is a bit of a huge coincidence, but again, it's a show built around how people's actions affect each other, knowingly and otherwise, so coincidences are already pretty prevalent.

OT: I've complained about this game before, but Golden Sun: Dark Dawn's entire plot is absolute contrivance. The game kicks off with a fetch quest across the world, in which you happen to activate like four separate ancient artifacts, one of which is the villains' superweapon, basically by accident. Also, the bird feather you spend the game trying to get is somehow essentially linked to the villains' scheme, but they're too lazy/weak to deal with it themselves. Then you beat them by activating another artifact that counters their artifact and then you go back home with your bird feather. Compared to the plot of the first two games, there's no room for character growth or smoke-and-mirrors plot twists or anything. Just a collection of dungeons with loose reasons to travel to each.

Also, there's like three or four Points-of-No-Return throughout the game, so fuck that noise.
 

the December King

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uro vii said:
Edit, because I have another one; Terminator 2. I recently watched Terminator 2 for the first time in about 10 years, because I remembered it the only James Cameroon movie I'd seen that wasn't painfully mediocre. I actually enjoyed what I suppose must have been the first half of the movie, but then it starts slowing down for a few scenes. Arnie and the gang turn up at one of Sarah Connor's old not really war buddies to stock up. It is at this point in the movie that we hear a monologue from Sarah Connor's brain announcing that she has come to the conclusion that this terminator is the best possible father figure for her son. This is the exact model of terminator who hunted her throughout the first movie, killed the man who she apparently loved and was the father of her child, amongst the many others she saw it kill, and got her locked away in a brutal asylum for around decade. Her entire life for the last 15 years or so has been dedicated to preparing for war with these things, she is constantly dreaming about the destruction they will bring, yet one turns up and within two days she decides she not only trusts it, but that it is the best father figure there has ever been for her son.
I always got the impression that she was making an ironic observation there... That of all men, the best father figure John could have was one of the machines that tried to kill them. I didn't get the impression that she had feelings for it, and she definitely hadn't forgiven the machines. As for trusting it, well, I never thought about it... but alot happened in those few days? I'm not sure how much she trusted it (but obviously more by the end).

Mind you, I'm not looking to start an argument, I was just surprised that you found Sarah's monologue crossed the line, so to speak.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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"A lonely, weak kid is bullied in school and has no friends. He tries to fight back but he keeps getting beaten down, and nobody will help him except his cute childhood friend. He wants to gain courage and strength, and then he meets a mentor who will teach him courage and strength, but he's a hopeless screw-up and doesn't know how to do anything but keeps on going because he wants gain courage and strength and courage and strength and protect the ones he cares about and courage and strength and OH SHUT THE FUCK UUUUUP!!!"

The exact reason why I couldn't stand either History's Greatest Disciple Kenichi or The Breaker which I read about 20 chapters more out of morbid curiosity than actual interest. Bunch of whiny-ass shounen shit.
 

flying_whimsy

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All the ones I came into this thread wanting to mention have been taken: time travel(I hate it with the exception of the back to the future movies), love-triangles, and why no one just hired a sniper to blow off voldemort's head in Harry Potter (or something similar in many other movies with super villains).

Oh, those stupid forced miscommunications/misunderstandings that are so common in romantic comedies and just about every anime made these days. When the driving problem is something that should have been avoided through even slightly better communication it just makes me hate everyone involved; it's even worse when a simple conversation could fix everything and instead there's just some contrived excuse to escalate the conflict. Nothing will get me to stop watching/playing faster than that.
 

Mechamorph

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uro vii said:
Mechamorph said:
Another is probably Harry Potter; while well-written, Rowling herself admitted that she had to leave logic and good sense at the door or there would be no story. Voldemort might be tough against another wizard, not so much a modern day infantry section carrying their firearms. If the Ministry of Magic had even a lick of sense about them, Old Noseless never could have gotten as far as he did. Basically everyone in a position of authority had to be incompetent or powerless (or dead), how else could children have been the pivotal actors in stopping a world-ending threat?
Well I think the first bit is covered under the blanket statement of muggle tech doesn't work around magic, but even if it did, the culture of the magical community comes across as far too conservative for them to look to muggles for help. As for the second, I thought a bungling ministry was actually quite clever, firstly it made sense within the universe as I felt it was a believable result of the again fairly conservative and somewhat backwards thinking culture that seems to pretty strong in the magical community, and secondly, to me at least, it does justify certain story elements, like why Dumbledore turns to Harry and the Order of the Phoenix instead seeking ministry help to hunt down the horcruxes.
I could not have said it better myself and it encapsulates the bone I have to pick with the Harry Potter series. I guess everyone has a different threshold of disbelief and different things that will bring them out of it. It is true that the Wizarding World as a whole are pretty much sticking their heads in the sand and humming to themselves as time passes them by. Too many useful things in the Muggle world are strictly chemical or mechanical for the blanket "magic makes technology not work" statement to cover. A gun is a controlled explosion propelling a small piece of metal very fast. Fully mechanical watches have been around for four centuries. Pepper spray is just a bunch of chemicals in a can with a nebulizer. If magic makes technology like that not work, it is either a sentient and probably diabolical force or fire should not work either. Those raised as wizards are culturally blind and willfully so. However if someone came into their world without their prejudices, there really isn't a reason that person would not look to Muggle technology to give them an edge over other wizards. You know, like our protagonist? Granted he was a small child at the time but even small children know enough that they can spot the loopholes in the attitudes of the Wizarding World.

And as the poster above said, the whole plot is justified in that there is nobody Dumbledore could have turned to. Everyone else is incompetent to the point of caricature. The most effective army against Voldemort is made primarily of schoolchildren which seems to imply that sometime after puberty competence drains out of people like a sieve. Unless rampant stupidity and incompetence abounds, even in the context of them being wizards, the plot cannot literally happen.

Edit: Credit where credit is due, I thought it was brilliant on the part of Rowling to include a prejudice against Muggle-born wizards. Magic Nazis aside, Muggle-borns were the only people who had any reason to interact with the modern world and probably the only people comfortable doing so (given that the Professor of Muggle Studies needed Harry's help to make change in a store...). They sometimes have strange ideas they preach to people like Democracy, Progress, Efficiency, Meritocracy, etc. Ideas that threatened the status quo. Little wonder that the established wizards would look down on them and discredit them on any level they could.