Pokemon needs to stop being afraid of innovation.

[John Funk]

There are other games in the Pokemon franchise beyond the "main series." They have what you might be looking for.

Also, Black and White did have an actual story. You never actually fought the Champion, for one. (until your next time through)

 

[Dom Scarff]

why is pokemon still here yes it was amazing as a child but now its all to...tesco(ish) its always there and its getting bigger for some reason like tescos and i just cant be bothered with it...but...i still have original pokemon figures/toys that are going for whatever you think they are worth lollo!!!

 

[Discord]

Pokemon can do whatever the hell they want because people continue to buy it in huge numbers every single time. I'm just sticking with Red until they release a pokemon game where in the fights you get to control the pokemon directly OTS style.

[HEADING=3]^
This... Oh yes THIS[/HEADING]

I've always thought the best and in my opinon the more logical route for pokemon would be to include a new battle system where you controled the pokemon you threw out. Pokemon Rumble tryed to do a Kiddy version of what Im talking about and the Mystery Dungeon games series did a good job of.

But imagne throwing a pokeball and comes out... a Eevee; Then you control the Eevee running around the field throwing basic but weak attacks like Tackle, Sand Attack, Quick Attack until you charge up enough to use the more powerful stuff, Super Fang, Double Team, Hyper Beam.

Pokemon Fans and Gameing fans alike will flock to buy a pokemon like that; It'd be like the Battles in Okami But more Pokemon and less Wolf. (If you understood that comparrsion)

 

[Buizel91]

Make. A. Pokemon. M. M. O. R. P. G. You. Stupid. Nintendo.

Seriously. It's a fucking money hose. I don't get what they're waiting for.

They are waiting till all Countries have there own Regions, then they will call it Pokemon: World...Where they will be our supreme overlords and take over the world... >.>

 

[Mad1Cow]

Pokemon can do whatever the hell they want because people continue to buy it in huge numbers every single time. I'm just sticking with Red until they release a pokemon game where in the fights you get to control the pokemon directly OTS style.

Would it surprise you to learn this is the reason I'm becoming a games designer? Either apply it to the Pokemon franchise or create another that aims to fix all these problems and become more involving as apposed to a turn based game that makes no sense anymore.

 

[RuralGamer]

I get where you're coming from, although I can only say that I really agree with 6 and 9.
There are quite a few Pokemon I've noticed which are ridiculously hard to catch, yet, to be honest, are completely useless and only good for 100%ing. Also, no Pokemon should ever again be as remotely hard to find as Feebas in Ruby/Sapphire - EVER AGAIN. To this day,despite fishing there for literally whole afternoons, moving around and trying different rods and such, I have never found a single Feebas. Then recently I went on Bulbapedia and saw what it requires and went WHA!???
The last point I emphatically agree with; now that wireless trading exists, along with all that jazz, releasing two games seems to me to be an utter waste of development time for the artists and such who prepare the different covers and such; the closest I think the series has ever got to legitimising the two games is Ruby/Sapphire because it made for different enemies.

Also, I genuinely think that Nintendo are missing a golden opportunity by not creating Wii versions of the main game series or even licensing it for big bucks to developers for the Xbox 360 and PS3 because I know of a lot of Pokemon fans who'd pay £40/$60 for that.

 

[Paragon Fury]

The basic mechanics of Pokemon are not to be trifled with. They are basically perfect and unbreakable, you can improve them, only make them worse.

What could be done is different styles, or improving the platform. Like, for example, if Nintendo wished to own all the money in the world at once, they could release and full Pokemon game like the ones for the handhelds on their new system with integrated online, etc.

 

[starwarsgeek]

Any employee at Nintendo gets fired if they say the word "Innovation"....

You're not familiar with Nintendo's involvement in gaming history, are you?

They created several genres and sub-genres, made many of the most influential games of all time, and made the gamepad--pioneering (or sometimes, being the first 1st party use) almost every controller feature that is standard today. They made a HUGE impact on the handheld and console markets, expanded gaming to other demographics, and almost constantly try to experiment with their controllers.

Who cares if they use the same characters?

 

[Gentle Dementia]

Imagine you were a farmer, and one day, you noticed if you fed your cow exactly 17 pounds of grain and 2.35 gallons of water. It gave molten gold instead of milk... I don't know about you but I know exactly what I would be feeding my cow everyday for the rest of her pampered, gold-spewing life.

They simply have no motivation to innovate. But yes, innovation would be nice.

 

[AgentBJ09]

That is not skipping a Gen, as i stated Fire Red and Leaf Green were released, then Diamond and Pearl a few years later.

I stopped right at the beginning of Gen 3, and entered again at the end of Gen 4, and i love the series more as i did as a kid. (sure that isn't skipping a Gen, but it's a good 6 years)

I just noticed a flub with that. It's skipping three Gens because Red/Green were remakes of Red/Blue, Gen 1 games. So, technically speaking, I did skip at least two Gens.

 

[Zantos]

Pokemon can do whatever the hell they want because people continue to buy it in huge numbers every single time. I'm just sticking with Red until they release a pokemon game where in the fights you get to control the pokemon directly OTS style.

Would it surprise you to learn this is the reason I'm becoming a games designer? Either apply it to the Pokemon franchise or create another that aims to fix all these problems and become more involving as apposed to a turn based game that makes no sense anymore.

I have never heard a better reason for going into a job than that. Make it so. (If anyone asks, I'll say it was my idea)

 

[iNsAnEHAV0C]

If you wanna play an interesting take on the Pokemon universe check out Pokemon Tower Defense. It's definitely worth a look with intriguing story and game play that is refreshing for the Pokemon Universe.

 

[chadGOLD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtH8Bmq2k3U The newest Update for Chad Version.. Ideas please!!

 

[chadGOLD]

If you want to design video games you can use Multimedia Fusion 2 developer there website is www.clickteam.com. Or If your into 3D game design there is a website called www.blender.org Im only 14 and it seems easy for me (Maybe cuz Im a super genius) but these are great starting programs. Heres a link if u wanted to see what kind of video games are possible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCLMMPgIIr0 its a collection of games I made.

(This is the Pokemon game Ive been making myself)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQDIGp2gf8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtH8Bmq2k3U

 

[chadGOLD]

Pokemon can do whatever the hell they want because people continue to buy it in huge numbers every single time. I'm just sticking with Red until they release a pokemon game where in the fights you get to control the pokemon directly OTS style.

Would it surprise you to learn this is the reason I'm becoming a games designer? Either apply it to the Pokemon franchise or create another that aims to fix all these problems and become more involving as apposed to a turn based game that makes no sense anymore.

If you want to design video games you can use Multimedia Fusion 2 developer there website is www.clickteam.com. Or If your into 3D game design there is a website called www.blender.org Im only 14 and it seems easy for me (Maybe cuz Im a super genius) but these are great starting programs. Heres a link if u wanted to see what kind of video games are possible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCLMMPgIIr0 its a collection of games I made.

(This is the Pokemon game Ive been making myself)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQDIGp2gf8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtH8Bmq2k3U

 

[Mad1Cow]

Pokemon can do whatever the hell they want because people continue to buy it in huge numbers every single time. I'm just sticking with Red until they release a pokemon game where in the fights you get to control the pokemon directly OTS style.

Would it surprise you to learn this is the reason I'm becoming a games designer? Either apply it to the Pokemon franchise or create another that aims to fix all these problems and become more involving as apposed to a turn based game that makes no sense anymore.

If you want to design video games you can use Multimedia Fusion 2 developer there website is www.clickteam.com. Or If your into 3D game design there is a website called www.blender.org Im only 14 and it seems easy for me (Maybe cuz Im a super genius) but these are great starting programs. Heres a link if u wanted to see what kind of video games are possible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCLMMPgIIr0 its a collection of games I made.

(This is the Pokemon game Ive been making myself)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQDIGp2gf8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtH8Bmq2k3U

Actually I'm a university student currently trying to make an mmo engine with a group of 30 students. Outside of the course of course. We're being taught basic programming, 3D modelling on 3DS Max, level design on the UDK engine and basic games design knowledge. It's real great fun and if you enjoy doing all that you should consider it when you get to the right age.

 

[black_knight1337]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtH8Bmq2k3U The newest Update for Chad Version.. Ideas please!!

public testing? i would love to test it out and find any bugs and stuff in it.

 

[immortalfrieza]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtH8Bmq2k3U The newest Update for Chad Version.. Ideas please!!

Does the game have a sprint function? You seem to walk along pretty slowly in this game.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Since this is a very long post, I'll summarize it up here.

1. A good story would help, but it'd need to stay simple.
2. No, it should build on the formula as its foundation.
3. It already does this, even if it is primarily for kids.
4. They should continue to trim the grind down, but your idea wouldn't be a good way to do it.
5. No
6. That would just make the world less engaging. The second point is more interesting, but I'll address that at the end.
7. Huge balance issues.
8. Waste of time and money that could be spent on other areas.
9. I like the social aspects.


And...I guess I'll spoiler tag the rest to make this a little smaller for those not interested.
1. Story

Spoiler

1. The stories of Pokemon games need to be better, not necessarily more mature, but need to be more immersive and detailed. There needs to be plot holes to be answered in other installments, there needs to be plot twists, surprises, revelations. In other words, Pokemon games need all the building blocks of a great story, and Pokemon games rarely have ANY of these things.
This article is a good example of something they are refusing to do that if they did would greatly help breathe life into this stale francise:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109149-Game-Freak-Wont-Let-Pokemon-Players-Be-Bad

Fair enough. A good story couldn't possibly hurt a game. However, you should keep in mind that "simple" and "bad" are not synonyms; I don't think a twisty epic tale would really fit with the series. In fact, the perfect Pokemon plot would probably be very similar to the first two generations. Too much plot would detract from a game like these. I agree with your general idea...a good story would, of course, be beneficial, but I don't think it needs to be filled with plot twists, moral choices, or alternate endings. Sometimes, simplicity just works.

2. Formula

Spoiler

2. The overall plot of Pokemon games needs to change, with the exception of 2, (Colosseum and Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness)ever since the first generation the goal of each Pokemon game has been exactly the same, go to a town, beat the Gym Leader, get a badge, go to the next town, rinse and repeat, while encountering an evil organization that isn't really evil or menacing at all that you take out, beat the Elite Four or whatever they're called that generation, become the Pokemon champion. Your mileage may vary, but this formula was done to death a LOOOOONG time ago.

I'm going to have to start the completely disagreeing here. If they were to focus on the plot, then the Pokemon formula should be its foundation. If you think about, the basic formula of the series is both a right of passage for this world's youth and the basis of its economy. I'd really like a plot to expand on the basic idea and do some world building (without getting in the way of the gameplay, of course), while I'd probably not enjoy one that threw away tradition for the sake of "innovation". Change for the sake of change isn't a good design philosophy.

3. Primarily for kids

Spoiler

3. This is something 1&2 would help with, people like me (I'm 24 BTW) that grew up with Pokemon are being completely ignored, no attempts are being made to keep us hooked. They never need to change anything because they market to little kids. This is for the same reason children's stories have been around for centuries without a change, it's because for every one person that grows out of it, there are countless more children that are growing INTO it. They need to find a way to serve all ages, not just kids.

And the disagreeing continues. They may not be the Pixar of gaming, but if they didn't have anything to appeal to an older audience, then that audience would be a tiny minority. Since we're talking about it right now, that obviously isn't the case. You may no longer find it appealing, but it's not like you have to stay with the series. Besides, the kiddyness is part of its charm.

4. The grind

Spoiler

4. The mechanics of Pokemon battles need to change, at least in the main game where the Pokemon's levels don't have to match, as long as your Pokemon CAN damage their opponents, all they have to do is power-level to beat anyone easily. This results (and I'm guilty of it too) in people just using one,two, or three (depending on if there are double/triple battles or not)Pokemon in every battle throughout the entire game, because it is a LOT less tedious than leveling up 6 Pokemon at once. The rest of your roster is just there to get you through obstacles. Also, all Pokemon in your roster should recieve XP for just being there, not just the ones that have been out, and it would be the full XP, as if they had been the only Pokemon out, and modifed by level so the lower level ones can catch up to the higher level ones.

Or they could just continue with that mechanic they implemented in the latest generation. XP works on a scale now--you get more of it for battling Pokemon above your level. So far, it seems like grinding isn't taking nearly as long.

They do need to continue to decrease the grind, but, to be blunt, what you're suggesting would be boring.

5. Turn-based battles

Spoiler

5. Pokemon battles especially against the computer need to become much more engaging and not repetitive. They need to finally remove the turn based combat, which only required the player to know how to press the A button repeatedly, and change it to a action RPG, like Kingdom hearts or the Tales series, which even during really easy fights require you to pay attention.

No. Like I said earlier, change for the sake of change is a bad idea. The combat system is the foundation for practically the entire game. If the battles are too slow, then you can turn the animations off. If they aren't engaging enough for you, you can try to get more involved with the strategy in the game. If that doesn't do it for you, then there's plenty of other options for your entertainment.

6. Capturing pokemon and encounter rates

Spoiler

6. Capturing of Pokemon should NOT be insanely tedious, the biggest problem here being that for no reason whatsoever Pokemon that faint cannot be captured, despite the fact that it would be much easier to do that way and that it happens in the Anime. Also, I know that rare Pokemon should be in there, but does that mean that I have to take out 100 small fry JUST to find that one Pokemon?!? Simple fix here, just have a system which would cause the odds of finding a rare Pokemon in an particular area to increase the more common ones you took out, eventually becoming all but certain.

While that would technically make a lot more sense, it'd also remove any strategy from a battle with a pokemon you want to capture, and it would destroy the choice that is present in every wild battle. Basically, it'd make it too easy and less involved.
The second half of your paragraph...that's an interesting idea, but it'd probably either make those battles too common or be such a small change that you'd hardly notice. The first would destroy that great feeling you get when you FINALLY get that pokemon you've been hunting, and the second would be a lot of work for something that wouldn't be a huge change.

Also, it'd continue a problem that I'll discuss later, near the bottom of this post.

7. More starters

Spoiler

7. Unless it's an extremely rare or story event Pokemon, you should be able to choose ANY Pokemon from that game's roster as your starter. I can't tell you how annoying it is to want a particular Pokemon at the start, but not be able to get it until almost the end of the game.

The problem here is that you could accidentally run into the same issue that plagued players who chose Charmander in Red and Blue--you could end up with nothing that can reasonably defeat the first gym, and we all know how much fun a grind like that is. You could even accidentally make the game impossible to complete ("Hey, Abra, that looks pretty cool...what's 'teleport'?"). Of course, we'd know better than to do that, but would a little kid who's getting his first pokemon game know better? And how could a newcomer possibly choose from over 600 possible starters? Too many options at once can be overwhelming.

Also, the starter is usually a pretty powerful pokemon, so you could end up replacing the cornerstone for your team with a wimp. Too hard to balance.

8. Evolve, damn it!

Spoiler

8. Evolution should be forcable to ALL Pokemon, as well as via level, so that people that just want to evolve a Pokemon could just do so without having to spend hours leveling it up, and if they were actually going to use it, they would be rewarded with much higher overall stats.

Well, anyone who just wants to evolve a pokemon probably wouldn't care about the time investment, since the only reason other than wanting to use (in which case, the player would be leveling it) is to complete the pokedex.
The problem here is that every pokemon would need a complete move set, since you could theoretically have a lvl. 5 Blastoise. This would be too hard to balance, and it would simply be a waste of development time that could better be spent on taking the grind down another notch, finding a way to make the world seem more alive (I'll elaborate on this in a minute), or making any number of smaller updates.

And, like your starter suggestion, this would be overwhelming for newcomers. Not to mention if a hypothetical Pokemon game were to include your suggestions, then this and a nearly unlimited starter selection would be a total game breaker...there'd be no way to implement these and then balance them.

9. Social aspects...or charging you twice, depending on the person.

Spoiler

9. Finally, one of the most important, stop releasing 2 games and eventually a third every generation. It wouldn't have to be easy to do, but there should only be 1 version where all the Pokemon from that generation could be caught in one game. The reasons for this are simple, many gamers may NOT have many friends which actually play Pokemon games, because trading is a long and completely unnecessary process that, if you don't have somebody else to link up with, you'll be forced to purchase 3 versions of the game, another of whatever handheld it is on, and a link cable, and most people that play these games and their families are NOT made of money. Linking should be solely for Pokemon battles between players and nothing else

The borderline mandatory social aspect, like its kiddyness, is part of the games' charm for me. Even if you don't know anyone else who plays, there's always the online options for trading. There is absolutely no need to own multiple versions of a generation unless you actually want to. For those who do want to own multiple versions, they can spend their money how they want, and it's a bigger paycheck for the developers. I see no problem here.

How I think Pokemon could continue to improve:

Spoiler

I think the biggest problem is how the world feels like it's there to serve you. You ever wonder why every trainer you meet in the wilderness has a completely healthy team? It's like the only time NPCs battle is when you're there to witness it. Your suggestion about rare pokemon would continue this trend. "I've beaten a hundred Pidgeys, now that Clefairy is practically mathematically guaranteed to attack!"

One change that would go a long way to fix this would be to have pre-damaged HP bars for wild pokemon and trainers in the wilderness. Buff their HP by the same amount that they loss to keep the challenge consistent (instead of having 70 HP, they have 95, but start with 25 damage). Maybe it could even be randomly generated (the only way it could possibly work for wild pokemon), so trainers you revisit won't have the same health as the last battle. Of course, gym trainers and Team Whatever members would have a fully healed team, since they fight you on their own terms most of the time.
This isn't exclusive to Pokemon, and I'd like to see more games do something like this. HP bars are an easy way to make it feel like NPCs actually do something when you're not there, but the only time I've ever seen it used is in World of Warcraft.


Other than that, here's a few short issues that could be addressed:

1. Continue to trim the grind down, but don't eliminate it. While grinding isn't inherently fun, it is part of the team-raising experience, and it should always be there...just to a slightly smaller extent.

2. Better dialogue writing--this series could easily become a spiritual successor to Earthbound, if they put in the right effort.

3. The ability to challenge NPC trainers. Walk to someone in the wilderness that you've already defeated, talk to him or her, and be given the option to challenge the NPC to another battle. Of course, it'd have to be after you leave the area so they would have been able to heal their team while you weren't looking. Not only would this give you another way to interact in the world, instead of just the world interacting with you, it'd also help kick the grind down since trainer battles give more XP.

4. The pokedex should have more information. Why do I need to capture something to tell its type? And why doesn't the pokedex contain an in-game move list for pokemon I have captured? Both of those would be useful features. While it's certainly not some huge problem, this would be very convenient.

5. As someone suggested earlier, the HMs are a problem. Gen.V has addressed this by decreasing the HM numbers, but I think they could go a little further by condensing the abilities. As you earn certain badges, Surf could also work like Whirlpool, Waterfall, and Dive; fly could double as defog, and strength could also include rock smash and rock climb. This would give them a grand total of four HMs (poor cut...only one use), assuming Flash stays where it is, and it wouldn't reduce the number of environmental road blocks.


Notice how these wouldn't change the core series for the sake of change, but instead improve on what's already there. When innovating a series, designers shouldn't ignore what came earlier; they should use it as a foundation.

Completely off topic, but why are people assuming the third installment of this generation will be called Grey? It wasn't Red/Blue/Purple, or Gold/Silver/Electrum...

This ^ is more of what I wanted to see in this thread, people that maybe agreed with a few things I wrote or even none of them, gave a reasonable justification for it, and provided their own suggestions for improving Pokemon. I didn't want to see people who's only justification for disagreeing with me is the fact that Pokemon is doing great financially, so they think it shouldn't change in any meaningful way whatsoever.

 

[chadGOLD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtH8Bmq2k3U The newest Update for Chad Version.. Ideas please!!

public testing? i would love to test it out and find any bugs and stuff in it.

Well its not completely done yet. But im making great Progress. I'll be releasing a Demo version soon. In the meantime If anyone has any changes they would like to be made to the Pokemon game tell me now.