Pokemon needs to stop being afraid of innovation.

[Sikratua]

I'm not even going to bother to counter every one of your statements because you're basically just saying that "this is how Pokemon has always been, this is how Pokemon always should be without even the slightest changes" which is laughable, and you're taking what I say out of context too. If I'm going to argue I'm going to do it with someone that might actually be even the slightest bit reasonable, and you aren't.

"Every one." You didn't counter any of them. So, let me make this easier. Everything you said amounted to "I want Pokemon to grow with me! I want it! I want it! I want it! *sniffle*" The problem with that is, and has always been, that the story is intended for children. Adults are not the intended audience. But, being selfish, you want a multi-billion dollar franchise to change, pretty well literally, everything about itself, solely to meet with your approval.

And, I even put the actual point of what I was saying in the exact words I wished to use in my original post. "There's no need to change what works." But, I guess it's just more fun for you to put words in people's mouths.

 

[immortalfrieza]

It seems there verision of "Innovation" is to add more pokemon too the battle it started with ruby/saphire with double team(it was "okay" not groundbreaking) and now in black and white they added a three way pokemon fight.

P.s. I would like to suggest the pokemon dungoun series if you want a little more innovation with pokemon then the normal games.

If they're going to do things like that then they should make double and triple battles for pretty much every trainer fight, so all 3 could get XP and you wouldn't have to stop and grind to level up the other two that you're not using all the time.

 

[immortalfrieza]

"There's no need to change what works."

I guess I can answer this one, that is one of the most lazy attitudes amd also one of the oldest cliches in the book, and a repulsive one. This is also the one that Game Freak developers are under, the thing that will ultimately kill them through stagnation. They realize this apparently, because with White & Black they've at least started to change the formula to appeal to a wider audience. I hope their next generation of Pokemon games isn't just a little step but a massive leap forward.

"I want Pokemon to grow with me! I want it! I want it! I want it! *sniffle*" The problem with that is, and has always been, that the story is intended for children. Adults are not the intended audience.

Yeah, well, guess what? Not only what you said rude, it was entirely untrue. I never said that children shouldn't still be able to enjoy future Pokemon games, but that EVERYONE should be able to enjoy them even years from now. I'll bet anything you could think up half a dozen games right now that you loved as a kid and if you picked it up and played it today you would like it for something other than purely nostalgia's sake.

Here's my list:
Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars
Final Fantasy 2 (4)
Final Fantasy 3 (6)
Secret of Evermore
Earthbound
RoboTrek

These were games I was perfectly able to understand and play as a kid that are still of value to me as an adult, THAT is how Pokemon games should be.

"Every one." You didn't counter any of them.

I never said that I actually tried to, did I? I said I wasn't willing to try countering your arguments because basically you didn't have any, they were all the different ways of saying the same thing, and as you pointed out it was: "There's no need to change what works." Who's putting words in other people's mouths now? Heh.

 

[immortalfrieza]

*Snip*.

**Snip*

when i said that they would be overpowered i meant like just the hell strong pokemon like dragon types and steel types and some of the ones which are mixed coz some pokemon just rape everything.

Easy, they'd just have to rebalance things, and when battles or trades go between Pokemon of different generations, they could just give them boosts to make them comparable to the "rape everything" Pokemon of that generation.

 

[Sikratua]

"There's no need to change what works."

I guess I can answer this one, that is one of the most lazy attitudes amd also one of the oldest cliches in the book, and a repulsive one. This is also the one that Game Freak developers are under, the thing that will ultimately kill them through stagnation. They realize this apparently, because with White & Black they've at least started to change the formula to appeal to a wider audience. I hope their next generation of Pokemon games isn't just a little step but a massive leap forward.

Let me try this again, since you don't seem to understand. You are demanding that a game company perform a paradigm shit on a billion dollar game franchise, that may have the effect of costing said franchise their player base, AND lose that franchise revenue from new players... And, outside of "because I want it," or something similar, you have given no reason why. People throughout this thread have posted legitimate reasons as to why this is a bad idea, and you have completely ignored them. The options, pretty well literally, are "do what works, and get billions of dollars," or "risk everything." Seriously, that's not even a difficult choice.

People, through history, innovate when the writing is on the wall that the current format will no longer be enough for people. Frankly, your attitude is in the minority. This is retail. People vote with their wallets, and those votes are in favor of the current Pokemon format.

Yeah, well, guess what? Not only what you said rude, it was entirely untrue. I never said that children shouldn't still be able to enjoy future Pokemon games, but that EVERYONE should be able to enjoy them even years from now. I'll bet anything you could think up half a dozen games right now that you loved as a kid and if you picked it up and played it today you would like it for something other than purely nostalgia's sake.

Here's my list:
Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars
Final Fantasy 2 (4)
Final Fantasy 3 (6)
Secret of Evermore
Earthbound
RoboTrek

These were games I was perfectly able to understand and play as a kid that are still of value to me as an adult, THAT is how Pokemon games should be.

What's your point? No. Seriously. What the hell is your point? I do find it entertaining, in an ironic sense, that one of your main complaints about the Pokemon franchise is that it's a turn based RPG, and then you put 5 turn based RPG's up as examples of games that you can play today without "nostalgia filters." Speaking of Final Fantasy, what happens when Square tries to change the formula? That's right. Final Fantasy 13 and 14 happen. Then again, there hasn't been a good Final Fantasy game since the Super Nintendo.

 

[Elijin]

People would have to stop throwing money at pokemon before they make any serious effort at innovation. I mean hell, if the world keeps paying them to play the same game every other year, why would you bother changing it up?

 

[black_knight1337]

game freak seriously needs to stop ripping off their customers. they release 3 games per generation and to be able to get all the pokemon for that gen you need to buy all of them or trade with people that have the other ones. also how come a company like bethesda when they made oblivion and then the shivering isles for it. the shivering isles in pokemon terms is like the gen after oblivion and yet bethesda sells it as an expansion pack and for less than half the price. where as fuckin game freak charges another 60+ dollars for the same shit that they released the year before. game freak really needs to make some serious changes otherwise i am gonna ditch pokemon all together (gonna get the third installment of this gen and see if that changes my mind at all though i doubt it will have much of an impact).

 

[Super Toast]

game freak seriously needs to stop ripping off their customers. they release 3 games per generation and to be able to get all the pokemon for that gen you need to buy all of them or trade with people that have the other ones. also how come a company like bethesda when they made oblivion and then the shivering isles for it. the shivering isles in pokemon terms is like the gen after oblivion and yet bethesda sells it as an expansion pack and for less than half the price. where as fuckin game freak charges another 60+ dollars for the same shit that they released the year before. game freak really needs to make some serious changes otherwise i am gonna ditch pokemon all together (gonna get the third installment of this gen and see if that changes my mind at all though i doubt it will have much of an impact).

I agree. The whole 'two games at a time' racket that Game Freak is running is just being done for the sake of bleeding collectors and die-hard fanboys dry.

 

[captaincabbage]

Pokemon can do whatever the hell they want because people continue to buy it in huge numbers every single time. I'm just sticking with Red until they release a pokemon game where in the fights you get to control the pokemon directly OTS style.

lol fucking seconded, my good man.

Although, it is amazing to think how well a Pokemon game could fit into a gigantic MMORPG. Having a huge world, with all of the reigons so far, every pokemon catchable and trainable and you can pick your starting town and reigon, not being able to leave that reigon until you complete the basic 8 badges.
I honestly reckon it's one of the few MMORPGs that could get away with a micro-transaction system, instead of a monthly fee system for two reasons. Firstly, because a lot of kids will want it. Whilst parents wouldn't buy a game like it because of the monthly fees just to keep their little shit of a kid happy, they could just buy it for them and have them play whenever without anysort of subscription. Secondly, because people will spend money when it doesn't look like a lot. Especially on pointless customization options (especially especially if it's customization for Pokemon).

There would be many little tweaks for the game to sort out, like for example, going to another 8 gyms after you first 8 would scale up the gym leaders, as opposed to starting off with those gyms.

 

[Zukhramm]

Wrong. Pokémon does not need to stop being afraid of innovation. Why innovate when the latest games sold better than the series ever did?

 

[Kukakkau]

1. Last gen had to do with animal rights, destruction of a world due to human's abuse of it and a couple other issues beyond a child's understanding. Even so the games are made for children who watch the show, what are you expecting? Murder?
2. Granted the plot could be changed a bit but doing so alienates the fan base that likes that structure. You can talk about the games without even having it yet "oh you got pokemon X/Y? How far are you? 7th gym? nice". The way it's always worked is familiar and simple to understand if you are new. Also don't fix what ain't broke?
3. Well that's not true, I know a lot of people who grew up on pokemon and have bought every gen so far - even people not that into games get them. They could try and change features to hook people in, but again it risks alienating the current fan base
4. Yes, you can use 2/3 pokemon to power level the game, but if you complain about being able to do that just don't do it? I always use a 6 man squad because it means I won't be able to nuke everything and there's actually some difficulty/tactics needed. As opposed to send out, nuke, repeat. And if you don't want to grind you are really playing the wrong game.
5. Remove turn based and introduce an ATB style? Really? So anything with high speed can get multiple hits in before their opponent? That will balance well... It will also mean a complete revamp of status effects, move effects, items etc.
6. Capturing pokemon hasn't been the goal in the games for years, granted it's there but it isn't your main goal. Catch what you want for a squad - simple.
7. ...Don't be stupid. Okay I pick mewtwo as my starter then? That makes sense.
8. ...Again no, that would mean you could pick a three tier starter then fully evolve it by the first town, while everyone else uses 1st form pokemon.
9. Granted that is annoying, but it is an option for people who don't have anyone to trade with, so that they can have all pokemon available to them. I've had this in many a gen where I would want something from the other version but not know anyone with it. This way you can come to the party late and get a more balanced/fleshed out version with everything.

Summed up - you don't want to change the game. You just want a new game entirely, tailored to your complaints.

 

[ZeroMachine]

"There's no need to change what works."

I guess I can answer this one, that is one of the most lazy attitudes amd also one of the oldest cliches in the book, and a repulsive one. This is also the one that Game Freak developers are under, the thing that will ultimately kill them through stagnation. They realize this apparently, because with White & Black they've at least started to change the formula to appeal to a wider audience. I hope their next generation of Pokemon games isn't just a little step but a massive leap forward.

Let me try this again, since you don't seem to understand. You are demanding that a game company perform a paradigm shit on a billion dollar game franchise, that may have the effect of costing said franchise their player base, AND lose that franchise revenue from new players... And, outside of "because I want it," or something similar, you have given no reason why. People throughout this thread have posted legitimate reasons as to why this is a bad idea, and you have completely ignored them. The options, pretty well literally, are "do what works, and get billions of dollars," or "risk everything." Seriously, that's not even a difficult choice.

People, through history, innovate when the writing is on the wall that the current format will no longer be enough for people. Frankly, your attitude is in the minority. This is retail. People vote with their wallets, and those votes are in favor of the current Pokemon format.

Yeah, well, guess what? Not only what you said rude, it was entirely untrue. I never said that children shouldn't still be able to enjoy future Pokemon games, but that EVERYONE should be able to enjoy them even years from now. I'll bet anything you could think up half a dozen games right now that you loved as a kid and if you picked it up and played it today you would like it for something other than purely nostalgia's sake.

Here's my list:
Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars
Final Fantasy 2 (4)
Final Fantasy 3 (6)
Secret of Evermore
Earthbound
RoboTrek

These were games I was perfectly able to understand and play as a kid that are still of value to me as an adult, THAT is how Pokemon games should be.

What's your point? No. Seriously. What the hell is your point? I do find it entertaining, in an ironic sense, that one of your main complaints about the Pokemon franchise is that it's a turn based RPG, and then you put 5 turn based RPG's up as examples of games that you can play today without "nostalgia filters." Speaking of Final Fantasy, what happens when Square tries to change the formula? That's right. Final Fantasy 13 and 14 happen. Then again, there hasn't been a good Final Fantasy game since the Super Nintendo.

"I DISAGREE, THEREFORE YOU ARE WRONG!"

That's the direction this thread is headed in -_-' Sikratua, I agree with every god damn point you've made, and your intention is noble, but it may be best to back out before the mods have to get involved. This guy won't budge at all.

And it's not like he'll be able to make a difference, so hey... lovers of the old school Pokemon win.

For the record, OP, you need to stop being so aggressively defensive against everyone that disagrees with you. Once you turn into that type of person, you lose a lot of respectability.

As for my opinion on the whole matter, all I want to see is a Pokemon game that's longer, has a larger land mass, a larger amount of Pokemon available in it (not as in new ones, as in more of them all), and a proper Pokemon MMO. Maybe some other minigames on the side.

But everything that makes Pokemon what it is? Keep it the same. It's one of the few series' that don't need to massively change, and we're running out of those. The only two I can think of off the top of my head are this and Zelda, both two of my favorite childhood AND adulthood series', and I'd like to keep them intact.

 

[Crazie_Guy]

Sounds like you want Pokemon to be... well, not Pokemon. You know you can play other games, right? You clearly want to, so you probably should. As for Pokemon, the core games stick with the winning formula and refine and perfect... and still there are many spinoffs that play with different types of gameplay. What do you think of the Pokemon spinoffs, exactly? I don't see you mentioning any of those. If something so radically different was actually made, would you even take notice or would it be written of as just another non-core game?

At the very least, I will say that any calls for major changes that may have held ground around 3rd gen are mostly invalidated as of the advent of wifi battles. I'm sure many people will be dropping by to expouse on the merits of competitive battling against humans. Let me just say that the single player game and the online game are quite literally two different games, and the latter is like a glorious multilayered cake to the formers' bran muffin. I can't exactly say you haven't played Pokemon if you haven't explored the metagame, as a game certainly still needs to stand up on its singleplayer... but let's just say you've essentially bought a chess board and then resolved to do nothing but play checkers against yourself. You've missed the best part. The core system behind Pokemon allows for an utterly astounding amount of strategic depth in the competitive arena, and changing it would be a very bad move. I can't even begin to describe what it's like to be a part of the battling scene, but it easily ranks up there with my glory days on starcraft, and more recently league of legends.

I will agree that Gamefreak could be a bit less blatant about money grabbing with dual versions, but I disagree on the core problem behind it. It's not the version exclusives that really get most people. It's not hard to trade for what you can't get, especially now with wifi. The real problem is their insistance on one and only one save file per game. Generally getting the second version is done so that a player can have one version for their permanent game, and another one that can be restarted and replayed. If you could have multiple saves on one cart, I'd be fine with the dual versions.

 

[black_knight1337]

it needs something to keep it interesting. all it is to me is just grind, grind and more grind. if i wanted something like this i would buy an mmo so then at least there is some fun involved with it

 

[Death_Korps_Kommissar]

I think in regards to starter pokemon, instead of the usuall three pokeballs, choose one thing, which ever prof you bump into at the start instead of:
"Hey pick one of these three"
it should be
"Hey, here's a pokeball, go into my garden where I have variou pokemon of different types wandering around. Find a type you like "

Also, pokemon MMO would be awesomesauce.

 

[black_knight1337]

I think in regards to starter pokemon, instead of the usuall three pokeballs, choose one thing, which ever prof you bump into at the start instead of:
"Hey pick one of these three"
it should be
"Hey, here's a pokeball, go into my garden where I have variou pokemon of different types wandering around. Find a type you like "

Also, pokemon MMO would be awesomesauce.

Me likey this idea

 

[Ketsuban]

The premise of the franchise is stale because it's hardly changed since the first game. There's been no massive overhauls of the mechanics

I provided an extensive list of things which changed the game up (the most major game-overhaul changes were abilities and the physical/special split, for the record) at the end of my post. You derided it as "minor imperceptible tweaks which should have been present all along". I'm not going to bother arguing with you if you're just going to ignore me. There's nothing wrong with iterating on and honing a core concept to a fine art.

the stories should be the entire point of the game.

Why?

For instance, while their ultimate goal may be world domination/destruction, they never destroy much at all, attack anyone besides you with Pokemon, don't steal things much, etc.

Team Rocket took a major multinational corporation hostage while their boss "negotiated" with the CEO. Team Galactic blew up a lake.

Oh, and Colosseum sold over 2 million units worldwide, which is a massive amount. I wasn't able to find how many Pokemon XD sold but considering how good it is I doubt it bombed.

ahahahahahaha

4. The mechanics of Pokemon battles need to hurpyburpy

(that's not even close to what I said)

You talk too much, I was abbreviating because I was trying to save space.

Is it lazy for me to not want to have to go through the tediousness of rotating each and EVERY Pokemon (especially if you have to do 6) for every one of the HUNDREDS to possibly THOUSANDS of battles I'll go through in the entire game?

Yes.

As if that wasn't annoying and tedious enough, the fact that the XP is divided among each Pokemon that was out means that you have to get in even MORE battles than you otherwise would if they didn't divide it up.

No it doesn't. Use one Pokémon to beat one enemy Pokémon, rotate your lead every so often, take the opportunity to switch when the opponent switches, and use the Exp. Share for seriously underleveled Pokémon.

Also, the A.I. of battles in general should improve, I've gone in and out of battles all the time without hardly a scratch because the A.I. keeps using useless moves against me.

The AI is scaled throughout the game - Gym Leaders are (supposed to be) better than regular trainers, the Champion is better than the Elite Four. Random battles just use the RNG to choose moves.

Also, they should remove all those buffing, debuffing, and other moves that basically do nothing, at least when the computer uses them because you'll probably take them out in one or two turns anyway.

This would completely neuter competitive battling. Again, this is scaled - the Elite Four don't bother with buffing moves in favour of good type coverage, while wild Pokémon just have the last four moves on their level-up list.

I'm aware of these abilites designed largely for capturing, and they help the issue, but they're neither common to most Pokemon or useful against all Pokemon. Most of the hard-to-find Pokemon are resistent or immune to these attacks

Stopped here because you're talking out of your arse. The only thing immune to False Swipe is Ghost-types, and you can pack Foresight to deal with that. Spore and Mean Look are both 100% effective, no questions asked.

Really? You call that an incentive? How something looks is an extremely superficial reason to do anything, which is probably the main reason that Pokemon is marketed solely to kids because they are the only ones that would fall for such an approach.

The Smogon is strong in you, I see.

 

[Gotterdammerung]

Pokemon has really stagnated for me, and I stopped playing at Diamond and Pearl.

Maybe if they mixed it up a little - lower the number of Pokemon in the game, increase the number of gyms, make it so that you have a choice of which order you battle the gyms - you know, nothing big, still keeping the same core components, it might appeal to me more.

I don't to change the core formula, just for them to change things up a bit.

 

[Death_Korps_Kommissar]

Also HMs need to go big time.
Golduck is the only water type in my part and I don't want to have to give him surf, waterfall and dive.
Stuff like trees and swimming should level based.
Oh need to surf? You need a water pokemon of level ten or something or a pokemon that can swim incase you don't like water types.
Big ol bolder in your way? No need for that fucking useless move rock smash, just have a burly pokemon on at least lvl 15.
Dark cave? By a god damn flash light.