Police shoot an "armed" middle school student

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The kid was 15 and still in the 8th grade? That's pretty much a dead-end right there, plus having been held back 3-4 times and yet still being stupid enough to come with a gun to school should in fact carry the death penalty for momentous stupidity far beyond any living organism should ever display.

 

[Sovvolf]

My police force would never have to deal with the problem as even the idea of a child having a gun in Ireland is ridiculous and if he did manage to get one the cops couldn't shoot him anyway. Just the way it should be.

Are you actually trolling here?

What? So you are saying that it's better the way it is in America? ha.

Whats better in America? you make no sense. You mean the fact that if some looney 15 year old gets loose on School grounds with what is potentially a lethal firearm, refuses to put it down and starts pointing it at the police in a manner of wanting to shoot, they are justified in taking him out?

I don't mean to bring logic into this but the same damn thing would happen in Ireland.

 

[jimbob123432]

I'm just going to say how i feel on this one so don't bother hating.
Your country makes me fucking sick that you can be justified in killing a child who had what is essentially a toy, and it makes me sicker that some of you think that's just alright. Fuck you

Not a toy mate, from any sort of distance most pellet guns can and are easily mistaken for a real firearm. Pellet guns can kill too, they are a weapon, not a toy. A bb gun is a toy, and even that can still put your eye out.

Don't know if you know, but there have been several school shootings here in the past, it's created a bit of paranoia, so when a student is at school with a weapon I don't know what else was expected to happen, but officers to show up expecting the worst.

When he refuses the commands of the officers to put the weapon down, and then raises the weapon at them; I expect nothing less but for them to respond to that threat.

So in the end, they were justified; don't say otherwise unless you are willing to step into the officers shoes and let an armed suspect aim a weapon at you.

Besides, this is just another case of Suicide by cop. Sadly, common around here.

My police force would never have to deal with the problem as even the idea of a child having a gun in Ireland is ridiculous and if he did manage to get one the cops couldn't shoot him anyway. Just the way it should be.

While I agree that no child should have a gun (albeit he had a BB gun) but how the hell do Irish police deal with people wielding guns? Do they run up and say "please stop"? I'm from Canada, a country that is constantly ridiculed for being "too polite" and having a shitty police force, and I think your statement is on the same level of ignorance of those people who make those statements about Canada.

 

[nackertash]

My police force would never have to deal with the problem as even the idea of a child having a gun in Ireland is ridiculous and if he did manage to get one the cops couldn't shoot him anyway. Just the way it should be.

Are you actually trolling here?

What? So you are saying that it's better the way it is in America? ha.

Whats better in America? you make no sense. You mean the fact that if some looney 15 year old gets loose on School grounds with what is potentially a lethal firearm, refuses to put it down and starts pointing it at the police in a manner of wanting to shoot, they are justified in taking him out?

My point is that there has never been a school shooting in Ireland. Ever. Kids can't get guns and thats that. In my country a tool that can ends a mans life instantly from a great distance is actually nearly impossible to get. Fucked up am I right? My country is so backwards.

 

[nackertash]

I'm just going to say how i feel on this one so don't bother hating.
Your country makes me fucking sick that you can be justified in killing a child who had what is essentially a toy, and it makes me sicker that some of you think that's just alright. Fuck you

Not a toy mate, from any sort of distance most pellet guns can and are easily mistaken for a real firearm. Pellet guns can kill too, they are a weapon, not a toy. A bb gun is a toy, and even that can still put your eye out.

Don't know if you know, but there have been several school shootings here in the past, it's created a bit of paranoia, so when a student is at school with a weapon I don't know what else was expected to happen, but officers to show up expecting the worst.

When he refuses the commands of the officers to put the weapon down, and then raises the weapon at them; I expect nothing less but for them to respond to that threat.

So in the end, they were justified; don't say otherwise unless you are willing to step into the officers shoes and let an armed suspect aim a weapon at you.

Besides, this is just another case of Suicide by cop. Sadly, common around here.

My police force would never have to deal with the problem as even the idea of a child having a gun in Ireland is ridiculous and if he did manage to get one the cops couldn't shoot him anyway. Just the way it should be.

While I agree that no child should have a gun (albeit he had a BB gun) but how the hell do Irish police deal with people wielding guns? Do they run up and say "please stop"? I'm from Canada, a country that is constantly ridiculed for being "too polite" and having a shitty police force, and I think your statement is on the same level of ignorance of those people who make those statements about Canada.

There is almost no gun crime in Ireland, some gangland shootings but in general only seriously well connected people can get a firearm, and those people tend not to want to throw there lives away by shooting at cops or civilians.

 

[Sovvolf]

My police force would never have to deal with the problem as even the idea of a child having a gun in Ireland is ridiculous and if he did manage to get one the cops couldn't shoot him anyway. Just the way it should be.

Are you actually trolling here?

What? So you are saying that it's better the way it is in America? ha.

Whats better in America? you make no sense. You mean the fact that if some looney 15 year old gets loose on School grounds with what is potentially a lethal firearm, refuses to put it down and starts pointing it at the police in a manner of wanting to shoot, they are justified in taking him out?

My point is that there has never been a school shooting in Ireland. Ever. Kids can't get guns and thats that. In my country a tool that can ends a mans life instantly from a great distance is actually nearly impossible to get. Fucked up am I right? My country is so backwards.

So, if there as never been a school shooting in Ireland, how do you have any reference here?

Which side of Ireland, cause again, if its the north its under British law and you can still buy pellet guns and other firearms that could look like a real gun. Also, anyone who is brandishing what looks like a firearm is treated like someone carrying a real one until proven otherwise. So if a kid gets a hold of a BB gun that looks like a real pistol (which they could manage to get hold of) he'd be treated like he had a real gun if he had it out in public or on a School ground. An ARU would be called and the same would happen.

South Ireland, they're even more lax with their gun laws though that fall under different laws though they still have an ARU and if a kid was walking round doing what the kid was doing in this case, I imagine they'd be called out and if he refused to put the weapon down and started to aim it, he'd be shot.

Also, regardless of all that, you said it was unjustified the actions that happened here and you've yet to clarify. All you've said is "We can't get guns easy over here" nothing on why the police were unjustified in shooting what appeared to be an irate teenager carrying a gun.

Edit: Actually I got it wrong, even in the North of Ireland the gun laws are just as lax as in the South with polices still routinely carrying firearms.

 

[nackertash]

My police force would never have to deal with the problem as even the idea of a child having a gun in Ireland is ridiculous and if he did manage to get one the cops couldn't shoot him anyway. Just the way it should be.

Are you actually trolling here?

What? So you are saying that it's better the way it is in America? ha.

Whats better in America? you make no sense. You mean the fact that if some looney 15 year old gets loose on School grounds with what is potentially a lethal firearm, refuses to put it down and starts pointing it at the police in a manner of wanting to shoot, they are justified in taking him out?

My point is that there has never been a school shooting in Ireland. Ever. Kids can't get guns and thats that. In my country a tool that can ends a mans life instantly from a great distance is actually nearly impossible to get. Fucked up am I right? My country is so backwards.

So, if there as never been a school shooting in Ireland, how do you have any reference here?

Which side of Ireland, cause again, if its the north its under British law and you can still buy pellet guns and other firearms that could look like a real gun. Also, anyone who is brandishing what looks like a firearm is treated like someone carrying a real one until proven otherwise. So if a kid gets a hold of a BB gun that looks like a real pistol (which they could manage to get hold of) he'd be treated like he had a real gun if he had it out in public or on a School ground. An ARU would be called and the same would happen.

South Ireland, they're even more lax with their gun laws though that fall under different laws though they still have an ARU and if a kid was walking round doing what the kid was doing in this case, I imagine they'd be called out and if he refused to put the weapon down and started to aim it, he'd be shot.

Also, regardless of all that, you said it was unjustified the actions that happened here and you've yet to clarify. All you've said is "We can't get guns easy over here" nothing on why the police were unjustified in shooting what appeared to be an irate teenager carrying a gun.

Okay for one the idea of a child getting a handgun in Ireland is completely ridiculous, and if they stole there fathers legally acquired shotgun it's going to be rather obvious what it is. So no confusion about police retaliation there. And the standard cop can't shoot the kid, they don't have guns. I can't put it to you any planer. It wouldn't ever happen over here.

And the fact that the country's culture and law structure have allowed it to get to the point where a cop shooting a kid is acceptable under any circumstances totally disgusts me.

 

[Aprilgold]

Pfft. There's that story again. "Our son isn't a wacko, "He mows the lawn and does chores and stuff"". Okay, I feel bad, but why would an "angel" SUDDENLY have a strange behavioral change to hold a pellet gun and mess with officers?

Also, it's every man for himself in this world. I wouldn't want to die from a lawn-mowing, chore-completing angel who suddenly brought a handgun to school and shot my brains out. Solution? Fire back. Oh it's a pellet gun? Well, imagine it was a handgun!

Thats still not the correct reasoning, aren't pellet guns supposed to have BRIGHT PARTS TO IDENTIFY ITS NOT REAL somewhere on it? Hold on while I google Pellet Guns in Bing Images and see what I find. Yep, here's what I found.

If the cop is blind enough NOT to see the cap then either the kid took it off or this guy didn't wear his contacts.

If the officer felt his life was in danger, he had every right to shoot the kid. I work at a police department and my officers don't just draw their weapons on a whim, nor do they discharge them for fun. In regards to the number of shots also, when you make the decision to fire your weapon, you are making the decision to use lethal force to bring down that subject. You aren't shooting at them to "injure" them.
It is a tragic incident but the officer was not in the wrong.

So your saying the Cap on the gun in question was not on the gun the youngster used, or wasn't bright enough, isn't it a law for the cap to be on there, I'm pretty sure that it might / should have been, but it all depends on what the kid was doing, and the link for me was broken.

I'm fine with him doing the kill, but if the gun had that cap, then its the cop to blame, if it didn't, then its the kids fault. All I gotta say is WHY THE FUCK AREN'T THEY ALLOWED TO USE TASERS! God damn I better go stretch before I want to pop a cap in somebodies ass.

Because one bullet isn't necessarily going to take someone down, and the last thing you want is a pissed-off injured person with a gun. They probably won't release what he said because they're being investigated, and it's somehow relevant to that.

Or alternatively, dead men tell no tales. It's hard to judge this story in an unbiased way.

Thats the other thing, we have to go by what the cop says, since the person is dead. I don't think that we can even begin to say who's in the right or wrong until one or the other has full on evidence. Though, in all honesty, that kid should have been smarter.

 

[Sovvolf]

snip

Yeah but pellet pistols can look like this:

Hell my pellet gun looks like this:

They can look like the silly toy ones you've shown however you can get some that look very really. All those images are of real pellet guns.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

I ave a big box ull o airguns tat could be perceived as being irearms

I also ave a big metal lockbox ull o irearms tat could peraps be seen as plastic toys

Wen i bougt my irst sotgun i orgot to bring a carrying case or it, so i ad to bike ome wit it in plain view, very poor decision

I you wave around an unconcealed gun or someting pointy in public you really don't ave muc o a argument i te police stops or soots you

 

[Sovvolf]

Okay for one the idea of a child getting a handgun in Ireland is completely ridiculous, and if they stole there fathers legally acquired shotgun it's going to be rather obvious what it is. So no confusion about police retaliation there. And the standard cop can't shoot the kid, they don't have guns. I can't put it to you any planer. It wouldn't ever happen over here.

You can still get hang guns in North Ireland... Its the only country in the UK that didn't get them banned after the Scottish shoot out incident in the 90's that's one thing.

The other is, you cannot, nor would the police, rule out the possibility of it being a real firearm. They treat anyone the same incase of the potential that it is a firearm. Also, your police still carry fire arms routinely. Christ I seem to know your laws better than you.

Your whole argument hinges one "But a child would never get a hold of one" are you really this ignorant to think someone couldn't get a hold of a firearm in Ireland? It could just as well happen over there. Do you really think, that if the Irish police got a call out for a kid walking around with what seemed to be a pistol (could be a pellet pistol which you can get over there or his daddies real one) going irate and pointing it at people, they'd just chuckle to them selves and say "Ho, he's just a kid with his toy -tussles head and walks back into the car"...Course not, he'd treat him like he's a fellow with a gun... LIKE THE LAW SAYS SO!!!

Specially in Ireland where people tend to be getting shot a lot lately with the whole terrorism thing still going on.

And the fact that the country's culture and law structure have allowed it to get to the point where a cop shooting a kid is acceptable under any circumstances totally disgusts me.

Alright, how would you have handled it then hey? say the kid did have a real gun, your that officer. How would you handle it? Would you have just let the 15 year old shoot you, some of the other students, your fellow officers until he ran out of bullets?

 

[Aprilgold]

snip

Yeah but pellet pistols can look like this:

Hell my pellet gun looks like this:

They can look like the silly toy ones you've shown however you can get some that look very really. All those images are of real pellet guns.

I'm sure its a law in some places to where you have to keep the cap on, or the cap is permanently attached and ETC. Thats, once again, some places.

 

[Sovvolf]

I'm sure its a law in some places to where you have to keep the cap on, or the cap is permanently attached and ETC. Thats, once again, some places.

Kid could have easily took it off to make it look like a real one. Hell, he was already going to hold up a school with it, why worry about whether or not the cap being missing is illegal.

 

[Compatriot Block]

A good third of the questions people are asking could be answered by just skimming the article.

Snip

He could easily have modified it to take the cap off. Or it could have just looked real. Plenty of pictures, not all of them are neon.

I'm just going to say how i feel on this one so don't bother hating.
Your country makes me fucking sick that you can be justified in killing a child who had what is essentially a toy, and it makes me sicker that some of you think that's just alright. Fuck you

Oh I'm gonna bother hating. How the fuck were the cops supposed to know it was a toy if it looked real, and he was POINTING IT AT THEM.

Pop quiz Mr. Calm-in-a-life-or-death-situation. Someone is waving a gun at you. It looks real, and if it ends up being real and you hesitate, he could kill you, your fellow policeman, and then possibly dozens of kids and students. You have no way to tell. You have already told him to put the gun down, and he refused. You now have less than a second to decide. What do you do?

By the way, the argument that it would never happen in Ireland is all fine and dandy until it does. So for the sake of children who could end up in a situation like that, I'm glad that you're not the person protecting them.

I think everyone here knows exactly where you can shove that "fuck you."

More importantly, my condolences go out to the cops that have to live with making that decision no matter how justified, and the parents once they come to terms with the fact that their son got himself into that situation.

 

[nackertash]

Okay for one the idea of a child getting a handgun in Ireland is completely ridiculous, and if they stole there fathers legally acquired shotgun it's going to be rather obvious what it is. So no confusion about police retaliation there. And the standard cop can't shoot the kid, they don't have guns. I can't put it to you any planer. It wouldn't ever happen over here.

You can still get hang guns in North Ireland... Its the only country in the UK that didn't get them banned after the Scottish shoot out incident in the 90's that's one thing.

The other is, you cannot, nor would the police, rule out the possibility of it being a real firearm. They treat anyone the same incase of the potential that it is a firearm. Also, your police still carry fire arms routinely. Christ I seem to know your laws better than you.

Your whole argument hinges one "But a child would never get a hold of one" are you really this ignorant to think someone couldn't get a hold of a firearm in Ireland? It could just as well happen over there. Do you really think, that if the Irish police got a call out for a kid walking around with what seemed to be a pistol (could be a pellet pistol which you can get over there or his daddies real one) going irate and pointing it at people, they'd just chuckle to them selves and say "Ho, he's just a kid with his toy -tussles head and walks back into the car"...Course not, he'd treat him like he's a fellow with a gun... LIKE THE LAW SAYS SO!!!

Specially in Ireland where people tend to be getting shot a lot lately with the whole terrorism thing still going on.

And the fact that the country's culture and law structure have allowed it to get to the point where a cop shooting a kid is acceptable under any circumstances totally disgusts me.

Alright, how would you have handled it then hey? say the kid did have a real gun, your that officer. How would you handle it? Would you have just let the 15 year old shoot you, some of the other students, your fellow officers until he ran out of bullets?

"Specially in Ireland where people tend to be getting shot a lot lately with the whole terrorism thing still going on."
Your argument is nill and your ignorance irritates and disappoints me. I almost believed you for a second. Everything you just said is utter bullshit and nonesense.

1. I don't live in the North, I'm Irish, not English and stop assuming I am.
2. Your argument is invalidated by its absurdity
3. I wouldn't have been able to shoot the child due to my clearly bizarre sense of morality. Which would of led to the kid still being alive considering the circumstances.

 

[Quaidis]

People are blowing this out of proportion. Let me rephrase the entire article:

"Police shoot teenager after a stand off at a school. Teenager suspected of attempting a school shooting after assaulting a classmate and acting strange. Three shots were fired between two officers, after repeatedly asking the student to lay down his firearm. Student instead aims at police and claims he will kill everyone."


Half the world appears to be sad about the student, but it's only because the words are stilted in his direction. He had a 'toy' gun, he's a 'kid', police used 'deadly force' on a 'kid' with a 'toy gun'. If you look at it clearly, realize this student isn't five years old playing cowboy and indian in the backyard, or begging the cops for mercy with a neon-green plastic water-shooting pistol, you would realize that this situation was probably far more serious and that the cops did what they had to to stop the kid and protect themselves as well as the school.

 

[nackertash]

A good third of the questions people are asking could be answered by just skimming the article.

Snip

He could easily have modified it to take the cap off. Or it could have just looked real. Plenty of pictures, not all of them are neon.

I'm just going to say how i feel on this one so don't bother hating.
Your country makes me fucking sick that you can be justified in killing a child who had what is essentially a toy, and it makes me sicker that some of you think that's just alright. Fuck you

Oh I'm gonna bother hating. How the fuck were the cops supposed to know it was a toy if it looked real, and he was POINTING IT AT THEM.

Pop quiz Mr. Calm-in-a-life-or-death-situation. Someone is waving a gun at you. It looks real, and if it ends up being real and you hesitate, he could kill you, your fellow policeman, and then possibly dozens of kids and students. You have no way to tell. You have already told him to put the gun down, and he refused. You now have less than a second to decide. What do you do?

By the way, the argument that it would never happen in Ireland is all fine and dandy until it does. So for the sake of children who could end up in a situation like that, I'm glad that you're not the person protecting them.

I think everyone here knows exactly where you can shove that "fuck you."

More importantly, my condolences go out to the cops that have to live with making that decision no matter how justified, and the parents once they come to terms with the fact that their son got himself into that situation.

The cop did his best in a bad situation. I am saying that your country sickens me that you have made it easy to replicate and popularized them.

 

[RevRaptor]

Try to think for a moment what it must have been like for the officers, the kid had a gun that might be real, they can't take the chance that it's not real. If they assume its a toy a do nothing people might die they might get shot themselves they have to treat it as if its a real gun even if it even looks remotely like a real weapon. Yes its a shitty call to have to make but its the right thing to do in the situation. The world is not nice nor is it clean cut.