Police shoot an "armed" middle school student

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Justified... Very justified...

The guy was an idiot... This was just fates way of performing natural selection! Its not like he was a little kid... 15 is way old enough to know that that is something stupid to do! At 15 I was in my last year of compulsory schooling, doing my exams in order to be able to get to the next stage of life.. For me it was further education, and then a job, but for many of my friends they were allready applying for jobs and aprenticeships at this age! Its plenty old enough. And it said he had the chance to lower it.. therefore he got what he was deserved!

And when brandishing a firearm... you have to shoot to kill... Its the only humane way of doing it!

 

[ThreeWords]

I'm also wondering if this was a suicide by cop.

Jaime's best friend, 16-year-old Star Rodriguez, said her favorite memory was when Jaime came to her party Dec. 29 and they danced and sang together.

"He was like a brother to me," she said.

There's your answer: dude thought he was in there with a close friend, danced with her on New Years, then got told he was 'like a brother'

I think I know who's fault this is.

 

[mb16]

"boy brandished what looked like a handgun and pointed it at officers."

that's all I needed to know. The police were justified in their actions

 

[LordFisheh]

For God's sake. If you take something that looks like a gun and point it at a bunch of armed officers, you should expect to be shot at. The situation is really easy to avoid - don't point gun-looking things at the police. People who can't follow such a basic rule have no sympathy from me.

 

[Harbinger_]

"Why was so much excess force used on a minor?" he asked. "Three shots. Why not one that would bring him down?"

He has a point there. This story is pretty fucked. Yes, the police had reason to feel threatened, but he was just a kid. He obviously snapped over something but he didn't deserve to die. Why did they shoot him three times? Why won't they release what the kid said before he died? Do we have anything other than their word that the gun "closely resembled the real thing"? It just kind of stinks.

There were alot of people who were 'just kids' who killed quite a few people. Obviously the kid didn't deserve to die, we have nothing but their word on pretty much anything that has to do with the story at all. What the kid said possibly has to do with his family or perhaps the school itself.

Many replica guns can't easily be differentiated from a real gun (see the post earlier in this thread with pictures)

You don't fire once in a gunfight. One you fire you pretty much force the other guy to fire. An injured person can still kill you with one pull of the gun trigger. That means you can't pause to see if he gives up, after that first shot you keep firing until they are no longer a threat.

Exactly this.

 

[Erttheking]

"The police should be punished"

...Well ms. whaver, let me just say that I'm very sorry...I'm very sorry that your son was completly fucking brain dead and the police were looking to prevent a new Collumbine.

 

[The Last Nomad]

Only read half of the article so correct me if I missed something important there but I think it was a case where the officers did the right thing, but maybe went a bit to far.

Generally there is two ways to deal with an armed suspect.
Some one has a gun: no shots need to be fired, ask them to put it down (at gunpoint if necessary)
Someone points a gun at you and refuses to put it down: shoot your's first
Seems the cops had the 2nd of those situations on their hands and done the right thing, although perhaps a single shot would have been enough to avoid killing the kid but also to stop the situation.

Although dealing with armed kids is very difficult, they don't always understand death and the possibilities of guns causing death so easily.
While the kid only had a pellet gun, it could easily have been a real gun and no-one could have known till afterwards.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

I do wonder whether the kid was actually trying to kill himself?
In any case its a tragedy, I can also completely understand why his parents would want the police to be punished, their son was just killed, they arent really in a state to look at the facts.

Also one thing these articles need is a little blurb at the bottom saying things like

"To the commentors and readers of this article

-It is very hard to identify whether a handgun is fake or not when standing at range, Police Officers do not possess eagle vision

-It is fucking hard to shoot someone in a "non lethal" area, and if you miss, you run the risk of hitting a person behind the suspect

-There is no such thing as a non lethal area, there are are areas that may be slightly less lethal, but there is still a very real chance of death

-Warning shots do not work

-The last thing you want is a pissed off injured person with a lethal weapon, thats why the cops make sure they're dead"

Imagine how much argument could be resolved if info like that was put alongside the article?

 

[Scarim Coral]

While I did read the situation (the kid was nuts and using a pellet gun and the cop probably couldn't see it was a fake given the sight from his distance) but couldn't the cop shoot him in the arm or leg to disarm him?

 

[s0p0g]

"Fifteen-year-old Jaime Gonzalez "had plenty of opportunities to lower the gun and listen to the officers' orders, and he didn't want to," Interim Police Chief Orlando Rodriguez said." of course he said that. do you seriously think he'd say "yeah sure, we had a madman amongst our ranks, but totally didn't see it coming"?

really? i mean, i only do know about US american police work from tv and thankfully youtube videos, but from what we silly europeans get to hear... yeah... i guess that's what happens when you give a pig a gun and a badge. you become the fucking law and fucking do whatever you fucking please to lowly mortals!
to protect and to serve (my primal instincts)... oink oink.

on the other hand, if i were a cop over there, i'd fight for my life too, be it an old lady crossing the street while lights are read, or be asking a single person to step out of their car to check his license. you never know if he or she ain't got a gat in their undies (from what i'ce heard it's legal in large parts of the US. you know, so that killings like this don't occur. lol.), so the only reasonable thing to do is shoot first, ask questions later. (of course you have to aim for lethal targets first; non-lethal shots are for pussies, and as a bad-ass cop, you ain't no pussy, beeatch! you go for the kill, man! i mean, we all know that some guy who stole an old lady's purse is a highly trained killer who will shrug off any wounds and shoot very precisely at the the officers' heads and other lethal parts. instead of cringing in pain.)

 

[Memoriae]

I agree with a commenter on the news page in question, if the kid does not know what to do when police say to drop his weapon, he's not been brought up right. I think the people involved aren't saying everything there is to know about this affair. A kid with a normal life wouldn't threaten police officers with a bb gun. And why were the police in there? Why were they called? Couldn't anyone see before that he was harmless and only had a toy? And why couldn't the police fire only ONCE. If they fired 3 times this means they saw him get injured and then deemed it necessary to fire twice more.

I don't think this story shows the full picture.

You'll probably find that none of the school staff even wanted to get close to see if it is a gun, just in case it was a gun, and the person holding it was unstable enough to shoot.

You'll also probably find that it most schools it'll be standard procedure for anything potentially involving a firearm to have the police attend.

So while you may not agree with the police being called, it was absolutely the right thing to do, as they have the resources to deal with situations like that, where a school won't.

Also, in litigation-happy America, if a member of the staff tackled the kid to the ground, or otherwise rendered him unconscious, you can guarantee that there'd be a lawsuit. So partially from the side of safety, and partially to prevent some backwards litigious shits from suing the school.


Also, around the number of shots? They fired 3 times, of which 2 hit.

 

[Leninv3l]

Well it says he "had plenty of opportunities to lower the gun and listen to the officers' orders, and he didn't want to,". I can say in that case they were perfectly justified. Three shots may have been a bit excessive, but it's not like they should've just sat there and risked having officer get taken out by the kid.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

While I did read the situation (the kid was nuts and using a pellet gun and the cop probably couldn't see it was a fake given the sight from his distance) but couldn't the cop shoot him in the arm or leg to disarm him?

Thats just sick... It might be ok in Game Logic, but in real life that just gives people a slow painfull death, and gives them immense pain... Its essentially torture...!

Not only that, its bloody hard to shoot someone in the arm or leg! Aiming a wapon isn't the easiest thing to do, especially at distance, and most weapons are not zeroed perfectly, especially as you have to zero the weapon differently at different distances! Noone is trained to shoot to injure, and noone is trained (except special forces) to shoot anywhere except the torso! Shoot to kill, its inhumane otherwise!

 

[Kopikatsu]

While I did read the situation (the kid was nuts and using a pellet gun and the cop probably couldn't see it was a fake given the sight from his distance) but couldn't the cop shoot him in the arm or leg to disarm him?

A shot to the leg has a high chance of being fatal (A lot of major veins there) and arms are hard to hit.

Police and military are trained to aim for center mass. Which is what they did.

Never assume that the world operates on video game logic where people regularly shoot guns out of people's hands without injuring them and such.

 

[Baby Tea]

"Why was so much excess force used on a minor?" he asked. "Three shots. Why not one that would bring him down?"

He has a point there.

No he doesn't.
Police aren't trained or order to 'shoot to disarm'. They are ordered to 'Shoot to remove threat', and they aim for center mass. One shot means you can still have a person, with a gun, being able to use it. Since they thought it was a real gun, if they only shot once the kid could have truly 'snapped' and started shooting back, thus injuring officers.

Really, I'm shocked it's only 3 shots.

This event is indisputably a tragedy. What an utter waste of life.
But from what the article says, the officers did it all by the book.
Looks like the kid wanted to die, really. Suicide by cop. A real shame.

 

[karloss01]

snip

in addition even pellet guns can have clips and magazines, My two-toned G36C has a magazine that has fake rounds built into it. if i decided to spray my gun so its no longer bright green then it would look like the real deal.

The kid in the end got what he deserved, he should have listened to the cops.

EDIT: just for reference

 

[RESURRECTION21]

it is fucked up but i wonder how long till fox news and jack tompson blame video games i give it 4 hours but it is just sad i fell so bad for all who where there