Police shoot an "armed" middle school student

[Iron Lightning]

This is a fishy story. Who saw the kid point the gun at the cops? The story said that all the kids and teachers were huddling in terror behind locked classroom doors so they couldn't have been witnesses. It seems to me that the only people who saw this shooting take place were the two cops and the kid. How do we know that the kid was actually pointing the gun at the cops when we only have the word of the cops who shot him?

Also, the cops refusing to say what the kid said is suspicious. For all we know the kid could've said: "don't shoot, it's a pellet gun!"

To me it seems possible that the cops shot the kid out of fear while he wasn't pointing the gun at them. We shouldn't automatically trust cops, they're no more trustworthy then you or me.

 

[krazykidd]

It's sad, it really is. That being said, there really was no safe alternative action that could have been taken. Hindsight is 20/20, and while the police wouldn't have shot had they known the kid was "armed" with a pellet gun, they really had know way of knowing. People have been shot for brandishing cell phones like guns, so it's not out of the question that people can be shot for brandishing fake weapons.

I can only hope that the child's family and friends are able to endure the task of carrying on in life. Same goes for the police officers, as they'll likely struggle through huge amounts of pain, regret, and depression due to taking the life of a child.

Because a child has never killed anyone ... EVER . Right?

OT: anyone, pretending or not , to have a real or fake gun , in a public place should be taken down .especially if he is waving it around . Tragic ? Not even . Stupidity should never be pardonned ( especially for things like this ). Parents do your job properly and this wouldn't happened .

Not really sure what point you're trying to make. I'm saying that the police officers did the right thing given the situation, which you seem to agree with.

All you seem to be arguing is that the situation isn't sad. Which is pretty much false, and a bit tasteless to boot.

Oh my bad , quoted the wrong person . Fail quote is fail :/ .

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

So fuck? Stupid kid gets hold of a toy gun and threatens the lives of others, police come in and tell him to stop being a ****. He refuses and continues being a threat/prick so the police shoot.

This isn't a tragedy, it's a sensationalist news story. The last line says it all "He was like a brother to me," how touching.

 

[senordesol]

You get different kinds of rubber rounds, the newer ones used for riot control are just deterrents. But the older plastic rounds cracked ribs, punctured lungs and knocked people out. They're the ones I'm talking about.

And yes, people can still fire after being shot. I've actually said that a few times to other people. My point is non-lethal rounds are just as effective in small armed threat situations as live ammo is.

'Just as effective' is a relative term. In this situation (http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-shot-utah-dead-injured/story?id=15296679#.TwXvTEqGz-k) even real rounds didn't seem to help much.

Again, police have access to a number of less-lethal options already. In a scenario where they need a lethal option and need it fast, I wouldn't deny it to them. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight, and you don't ask men to go into potentially lethal situations with nerfed equipment.

 

[Numberatu]

What in hell's name makes this a situation where the kid "got what he deserved"? Stupid, panicked, scared, belligerent he may have been, and the police are trained to make sure anything like this is dealt with properly (so their response was indeed appropriate for that kind of situation), but the people saying things like "survival of the fittest" just need to take a look at themselves.
He was a kid. He was stupid. That does not mean he deserved to die. In a world where convincing arguments can be made that people like bloody Gaddafi didn't deserve to die,where only a few countries still execute people, how the hell can you say that a silly kid deserved that end? It's tragic and its sad, its not a case where say a deficient characteristic is being bred out of the human race.
Edit: There's no sides in this thing. It isn't the police being evil, or the kid being a mass murdering swine who deserved death. Its some stupid kid who for whatever reason flipped, the police responded exactly as they are trained to (and maybe there was a screw up, maybe the kid didn't hear the yells to put the toy gun down, but that's what happens in nasty situations), and someone died. That means a family is traumatised, his friends are horrified, and the policeman who pulled the trigger may well be messed up-because you know, killing someone's not something most people walk away from whistling, especially if you learn that you shot someone who didn't have a real gun. Its all just messed up and sad.

 

[madwarper]

Cops did the right thing, kid got what he deserved.
End of story.

Is that misconstruing your point or do you actually believe that a kid waving a BB gun around deserves to be killed?

Let me ask you; Are you really saying that the cops should have been more concerned about the caliber of the weapon being pointed at them than the fact that there was a weapon being pointed at them?

 

[Numberatu]

Cops did the right thing, kid got what he deserved.
End of story.

Is that misconstruing your point or do you actually believe that a kid waving a BB gun around deserves to be killed?

Let me ask you; Are you really saying that the cops should have been more concerned about the caliber of the weapon being pointed at them than the fact that there was a weapon being pointed at them?

Tell me you're joking, please. Just read what he said. No he didn't. He's saying no-one deserves to die because they waved a BB gun. The important word there is DESERVED. Entirely tangential to the actual story, because hey, someone getting killed because of a misunderstanding or emotions boiling over, or just being stupid, is still never a good thing.

Edit: The police did what they're supposed to do, what they're trained to do, and the kid died. And that's another human life cut short, that of a 15 year old kid with his life ahead of him. What he did in that life was up to him, but its sad that he was killed all the same.

 

[Electric Alpaca]

If this child is foolish enough to brandish a firearm type object at police officers I honestly don't know what else anyone would expect.

Pointing a toy gun (which are designed to be nigh on indistinguishable from the real thing at range) at armed officers is a thing most sensible people know not to do. Officers did their job, and did it well.

This isn't the case of an innocent being taken down by excessive force - this is the case of a fool trying to show how clever he is, or alternatively a successful suicide by police.

With school shootings so popular, the last thing needed is someone like this to indirectly endanger true innocents by watering down police response ability.

 

[Lucane]

"Why was so much excess force used on a minor?" he asked. "Three shots. Why not one that would bring him down?"

He has a point there. This story is pretty fucked. Yes, the police had reason to feel threatened, but he was just a kid. He obviously snapped over something but he didn't deserve to die. Why did they shoot him three times? Why won't they release what the kid said before he died? Do we have anything other than their word that the gun "closely resembled the real thing"? It just kind of stinks.

Edit: I'm editting since I can't be bothered replying to everyone who quoted me. Okay, you've convinced be. Shooting to kill is an absolutely legitimate way of dealing with a child. Please stop quoting me now, I don't care that much.

Well it was 3 shots between two police officers so it'd have be once each with one of them taking a second shot likely after the other one fired but since only two shots hit maybe the 3rd was an attempted miss fire to not hit the boy again (which shows restraint)unless of course a prior shot was the miss but it isn't like it's one person shooting 3 times into a child.

Plus it was during the normal hours of a school day,(If the gun had been loaded{something you can't see from a distance or up close unless it's a revolver} & real) the child could of started shooting into any random direction which could easily fly through a wall(s) and hit one or even several students and or teacher(s) in the nearby classes so it shouldn't really be considered just self concern on the cops.

 

[Tsaba]

"Why was so much excess force used on a minor?" he asked. "Three shots. Why not one that would bring him down?"

Why three shot's you ask?

"Two officers fired three shots, hitting Gonzalez at least twice, police said."
-2 Police officers shot a total of 3 rounds
-Individual was shot at least twice
-Means one officer missed and probably shot again

They where most likely using a handgun which has a 9mm round. A 9mm is a high velocity round and has a max effective range on a point target of 50 meters (meaning hitting what your aiming at effectively), so it's not very accurate unless you right on top of what you are aiming at.

OT: with this so soon after Virginia tech the people there are being ridiculous, kid brought a gun to school and was given a chance to surrender. I feel nothing for him or his family.

 

[madwarper]

Spoiler

Cops did the right thing, kid got what he deserved.
End of story.

Is that misconstruing your point or do you actually believe that a kid waving a BB gun around deserves to be killed?

Let me ask you; Are you really saying that the cops should have been more concerned about the caliber of the weapon being pointed at them than the fact that there was a weapon being pointed at them?

Tell me you're joking, please.

I'm not.

Just read what he said.

I did. What makes you think otherwise?

No he didn't. He's saying no-one deserves to die because they waved a BB gun. The important word there is DESERVED. Entirely tangential to the actual story, because hey, someone getting killed because of a misunderstanding or emotions boiling over, or just being stupid, is still never a good thing.

No. He's trying to imply the caliber of the weapon is relevant, that the fact that this was a BB gun, an air gun, or whatever takes precedence over the fact that the person is waving said weapon around in a threatening manner.

The caliber of said weapon can only be safely determined, and thus is only relevant, AFTER the threat has been removed.

 

[Supah]

Ever heard of suicide by cop? That's what it sounds like to me... He was given a chance to lower the gun and antagonized them instead

 

[godofallu]

15 is old enough to know better.

In my opinion the guy deserved to die, he had a gun pointed at a cop and punched a random person for no reason. We're better off without him.

 

[Risingblade]

Literally two pages of people defending the police's right to shoot to kill. Great response from everyone, I'm just glad that I don't live in a place where this sort of sh*t's legal.

Be very glad of that, you must live in an area with a low violent crime rate unlike here in the states.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Cops did the right thing, kid got what he deserved.
End of story.

Is that misconstruing your point or do you actually believe that a kid waving a BB gun around deserves to be killed?

Let me ask you; Are you really saying that the cops should have been more concerned about the caliber of the weapon being pointed at them than the fact that there was a weapon being pointed at them?

Tell me you're joking, please. Just read what he said. No he didn't. He's saying no-one deserves to die because they waved a BB gun. The important word there is DESERVED. Entirely tangential to the actual story, because hey, someone getting killed because of a misunderstanding or emotions boiling over, or just being stupid, is still never a good thing

The cops aren't psychic. They didn't know that it was a BB gun made to look like a real gun that the kid had filed the orange safety tip off of.

Did the kid deserve to die because he waved a BB gun around? No.

Did he deserve to die because he was waving around a fake gun intentionally made to look like a real gun (See again: The safety tip being filed off) and refused to drop it when ordered by armed police officers? Most definitely.

 

[Auron225]

It is a tragedy, but if I met the police officers, I wouldn't call them monsters. Well, obviously if they knew it was a pellet gun I would, but if it looked like the real thing and he wouldnt stop pointing it at them... I don't know what this kid was expecting to happen. I really don't.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

I must be psychic, because when I read this title, I immediately thought to myself; "failure to comply with police commands." In ever single story I've read regarding these instances, that has always been the case. I would love to read something new.