Police Union Uses A Black Woman's Son In P.R. Photo After Attacking Her

[ObsidianJones]

All this chaos was starting to make me wonder how black people could ever want to be a police officer. Here’s what an ex cop had to say-

“There’s money in black people’s emotions.”

Gotta wonder what’s happening in a country when rationality is seemingly being suppressed by the powers that be. Less and less a place that any kid should have to grow up in. They’ll probably never experience what being truly free feels like.

As a Black Guy who was accepted into the academy but pulled out, I can answer some of that.

You think about your community. You know the people there. You know the struggles. You know the heart ache. You know that a lash isn't needed when just some support will do just fine. You're not going into it to bust some heads. But you feel like you might never be a politician, so you can protect your community in other ways.

And that brings us to Fallacy number one. I was told by an officer when I took the NYPD test (he just so happened to see a group of people going to my own middle school and asked what was happening, and we told him we were testing to be join the police force. He just happened to be a sergeant. He asked where we hoped to be stationed. I said the Bronx because that I was born. He told me never to bring that up if I do get accepted, because they don't want officers in places where they had ties.

From the beginning, every Police Officer (at least in the NYPD) is an invading force. Someone who doesn't know the vibe, the general mores, and who doesn't feel kinship.

The more I questioned others after I took the test, the more that unraveled. And then, the last straw was when two police officers killed the father of my martial art teacher, and lied about the actual circumstances... and then when it was found out that they lied? Nothing happened.

Some people think they can change the world, some people think they can change the situation from the inside to protect others, Some people just need a job, Some people think how their race treated doesn't apply to them.

So to sum up... the same reasons why any one else joins the police force. I just couldn't look the other way any more.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Then when the first answer becomes "yes," and you've got rid of all the cops, I hope you remember this moment.

I hope when you're shot to pieces by the cops you like so much, you remember this moment.

 

[lil devils x]

All of this could be resolved without cops.

By an angry mob/ gang who answers to no one? Oh and chances are when you dissolve the cops, the men that were no longer cops then are the gang that are enforcing the peace regardless. SO you still have cops, they are the same exact people and they just have no one to hold them accountable for anything at all anymore as you just removed all ability to hold them accountable, they just now make their own rules.

 

[lil devils x]

Really, this is like answering the question of whether slavery should be abolished with “but who will pick the cotton?”

That is a bullshit comparison. Police are not being held against their will and forced to work.

 

[lil devils x]

Well, an easy one would be the squats in Greece, or various other existing anarchist communities. Also, I grew up in some truly middle of nowhere places where cops were not easy to get to show up, so most of those kinds of issues just got dealt with by the neighbors who’d show up.
Finally, can you really argue cops resolve those problems? Most cops abuse their spouses, cops have a horrific record with spousal abuse, sex crimes, and murders, and generally perform quite miserably at resolving those problems due to various structural and cultural issues. It seems pretty easy to imagine a world with a better system than cops. Like extremely fucking easy. Because cops suck.

So what happens when the gangs who are supposed to enforce the law break the law? How do you hold them accountable? Who controls the militias, since they are now the "new police"? The police will just be the new gangs with no way to hold them accountability at all. Since they no longer officially work for the community, they can just make their own rules. Who is going to stop them? another gang? They just recruit off their members to join them instead. Living in a gang controlled area is not anything anyone should ever recommend. It wasn't even safe for me to go outside without body guards. It is a bullshit answer because it doesn't work on a large scale, hell in the grove, it didn't work there either. It is bullshit because it doesn't take into account cause and effect and lacks the foresight to understand that it just gives power to those who want it regardless without any accountability.

Who protects the minorities when the mob decides they want to Lynch them? Who stops the mob from creating their own rules and laws? If the mob decides they are entitled to rape who they please and choose who lives and who dies, who stops them? That is the reality of what you propose, and it sucks.

 

[Cicada 5]

And ultimately, consider this. There are broad sections of America that already live without “police” and it is a necessity of their structure that some people exist in this situation. For example, prisoners, for whom guards are not enforcers of good behavior but of their imprisonment almost exclusively, and who regularly abuse their captives. The homeless, for whom the protection of the police is largely non-existent. The undocumented as well. Finally and perhaps most obviously, minorities throughout this country in particular neighborhoods where cops serve as an occupying force, where their primary purpose it the oppression of the community. Ultimately, much of America already exists without these “benefits” of cops so the rest of us can have them. I side with them.

If you dissolve police, all that means is that now all of society has no way of protecting themselves from abuse and murder or punishing those who commit such crimes instead of just having some sections of society the police can't or won't protect. The solution is to make the cops do their duty of serving and protecting all members of the public regardless of who they are.

 

[Houseman]

I think the real moral of the story is too not trust anything you read on Facebook, especially by biased parties.

 

[lil devils x]

If you dissolve police, all that means is that now all of society has no way of protecting themselves from abuse and murder or punishing those who commit such crimes instead of just having some sections of society the police can't or won't protect. The solution is to make the cops do their duty of serving and protecting all members of the public regardless of who they are.

Currently we have a situation where leadership has been choosing to look the other way rather than enforce their own laws/ rules, that doesn't mean the laws and rules do not exist. We actually DO have a path to do so still, we just have to choose leadership who will do so. The checks and balances are off balance by the police and their supporters have allowed them too much power and that needs to be balanced and they need to be held accountable. When the people choose leadership who will hold them accountable, these things will change. The people still currently control how much power the police are allowed to have. Many of us are calling to draw that power back in, but as it is, we still have had the majority of people choosing to give them that much power. If they remove the people's only path to hold them accountable by abolishing that contract, we lose any ability to hold them accountable at all. If you think it is bad when the people have given them this much power, think about how bad it will be when their power is unlimited and can just keep growing.

The system they are proposing means they remove the only path we have to hold them accountable and just give them all the power because they will just recruit others to join them at will rather than have any viable opposition existing. We have already seen what happens when people are rejected from the police and military, they join militias and gangs and give themselves power over others through the size of their force instead. They will just make the " oath keepers" who are primarily former military and police stronger and empower them to rule over everyone else so they can carry out their dreams of "destroying those trying to impose the green new deal upon them". ( according to the leader of the Oath keepers, that is their objective here.)

I think they have some delusion about what would happen when they abolish the police and would get a rude awakening when they are then subjected to be ruled by the proud boys, Boogs and Oath keepers instead.

 

[ObsidianJones]

I hope I'm not reading this correctly, but when people are saying "Dissolve the Police", I hope the answer to that vacuum isn't "Sort the issues out by yourself".

In this nation. Where the number of guns can outnumber the various combined wildlife populations. In a place where people have gotten into physical altercations for wearing a mask to protect themselves, their families, their friends, and their communities... because they didn't want to be infringed on and this is America.

We have a good amount of gun-toting people in a cult here that praises a Cheeto in a wig who are literally counting down the hours until Tuesday to see if they get to mount the Civil War they have been itching over for years. Why on earth do we want to remove more Law?

I hate the police. But fix it. I hate America, but in time it can be salvaged.

 

[Revnak]

Then when the first answer becomes "yes," and you've got rid of all the cops, I hope you remember this moment.

I’ve never called cops because I don’t trust them, I’ve had emergencies before genius.

 

[Revnak]

By an angry mob/ gang who answers to no one?

No that’s the cops.

That is a bullshit comparison. Police are not being held against their will and forced to work.

My point is there’s ways of resolving problems that aren’t the ways you’re “resolving” them right now.

So what happens when the gangs who are supposed to enforce the law break the law? How do you hold them accountable? Who controls the militias, since they are now the "new police"? The police will just be the new gangs with no way to hold them accountability at all. Since they no longer officially work for the community, they can just make their own rules. Who is going to stop them? another gang? They just recruit off their members to join them instead. Living in a gang controlled area is not anything anyone should ever recommend. It wasn't even safe for me to go outside without body guards. It is a bullshit answer because it doesn't work on a large scale, hell in the grove, it didn't work there either. It is bullshit because it doesn't take into account cause and effect and lacks the foresight to understand that it just gives power to those who want it regardless without any accountability.

Who protects the minorities when the mob decides they want to Lynch them? Who stops the mob from creating their own rules and laws? If the mob decides they are entitled to rape who they please and choose who lives and who dies, who stops them? That is the reality of what you propose, and it sucks.

COPS ALREADY DO ALL THE THINGS YOURE TALKING ABOUT AND ARE ALMOST ENTIRELY UNACCOUNTABLE WHILE DOING THOSE THINGS

 

[Revnak]

If you dissolve police, all that means is that now all of society has no way of protecting themselves from abuse and murder or punishing those who commit such crimes instead of just having some sections of society the police can't or won't protect. The solution is to make the cops do their duty of serving and protecting all members of the public regardless of who they are.

If you end slavery then nobody will pick cotton and we’ll have nothing to make warm winter clothes in so either we all stay inside in the winter or people go outside and fucking die.

 

[Cicada 5]

If you end slavery then nobody will pick cotton and we’ll have nothing to make warm winter clothes in so either we all stay inside in the winter or people go outside and fucking die.

1) You're being absurd.

2) I'm black. I am in no way campaigning for slavery so please take your hyperbolic accusations elsewhere.

No that’s the cops.

My point is there’s ways of resolving problems that aren’t the ways you’re “resolving” them right now.

Did it ever occur to you that your way doesn't work for everyone else?

COPS ALREADY DO ALL THE THINGS YOURE TALKING ABOUT AND ARE ALMOST ENTIRELY UNACCOUNTABLE WHILE DOING THOSE THINGS

So of course, the perfect solution is to just let other people break the law and have no one to deal with them when they do. The answer to corruption and racism is clearly total jungle-like lawlessness.

Are you listening to yourself?

 

[Houseman]

2) I'm black. I am in no way campaigning for slavery so please take your hyperbolic accusations elsewhere.

So am I but, unlike you, I actually understand what analogies are. Try to see Revnak's point instead of just hyper-focusing on the word "slavery" and getting all upset over it.

 

[Revnak]

1) You're being absurd.

2) I'm black. I am in no way campaigning for slavery so please take your hyperbolic accusations elsewhere.

No I am not. Once we could not imagine a world without slaves, now we cannot imagine a world without cops. Both are possible and exist/have existed.

 

[Revnak]

So of course, the perfect solution is to just let other people break the law and have no one to deal with them when they do. The answer to corruption and racism is clearly total jungle-like lawlessness.

No, and letting cops break the law with no one to deal with them isn’t helping either.

 

[Cicada 5]

So am I but, unlike you, I actually understand what analogies are. Try to see Revnak's point instead of just hyper-focusing on the word "slavery" and getting all upset over it.

I know what analogies are. I also know when they completely fall flat on their faces as arguments. Maybe you should tell Revnak to work on his debating skills instead of getting mad at me for pointing out how absurd he is.

 

[Worgen]

No I am not. Once we could not imagine a world without slaves, now we cannot imagine a world without cops. Both are possible and exist/have existed.

You would have to turn back human progress to be able to go back to a time before cops. If you do it now then you just get militias and gangs that take over.

 

[Cicada 5]

No, and letting cops break the law with no one to deal with them isn’t helping either.

Two wrongs don't make a right. I thought we all learned this in preschool.

 

[Revnak]

You would have to turn back human progress to be able to go back to a time before cops. If you do it now then you just get militias and gangs that take over.

There are communities without cops right now and communities without the protection of cops in America as we speak who must experience that to perpetuate cops.