That will mesh really well with my Streetwalkin' Stalin costume. I'm going with fishnets and a military dress coat, in case you want to coordinate.Brian Tams said:
Political Correctness and Halloween Costumes
- Thread starter James Joseph Emerald
- Start date
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jesse220 said:
It's somewhat ironic that in the very threat we are discussing persecution against the mentally ill we make use of the terms "Would have to be mad" or "Not in their right mind" to discuss someone having an absurd point of view.Genocidicles said:
It's sort of like discussing homophobia by calling people who are homophobic a bunch of useless faggots.
Not that I mind too much as I believe comparing a point of view to one that a crazy person would have is a very legitimate way of expressing that an idea is unfounded or not well grounded in reality - but given the context of the discussion I find it deliciously ironic.
I imagine only a crazy person couldn't see that.
Oh man, I'd totally get in on that, but only if I can be part of Gwar afterwords.Master of the Skies said:
Why do we have to think this costume as "ridiculing and dehumanising mental patients? Why we can't think this costume as a "scary halloween costume"?James Joseph Emerald said:
See, this is the problem behind "Political correctness" madness. People are overreacting with sensitivity, and trying to find offensive behaviour or a conspiracy behind every thing...
This is just a Halloween costume. Halloween costumes are usually trying to be "scary", therefore they get references from famous stories or movies.
We have many psychopath serial killers in movies. Think about Hannibal from The Silence Of The Lambs, Jason from Friday the 13th, Freddy from A Nightmare On Elm Street... These are all insane people, they all have mental disorders.
So, are these movies trying to mock all mental patients? are they trying to ridicule and dehumanise mental patients?
No.
Neither this costume.
These movies are not directed to imply anything like "all mental patients are knife wielding maniacs". They are just telling "this knife wielding maniac is a mental patient". There are huge differences between the two.
I can understand your brother's problem, and I am sorry about it. But you are loading your own personal life into unrelated subject.
Let me give you an example.
Because of my personal life, I've seen and met with many disabled people. There were also some close acquaintances of mine, disabled, crippled or handicapped. Even my cousin is disabled, and have problems in writing, reading and speaking.
So should I get offended if I see a person who wears a zombie costume in Halloween, and talks slowly? Should I quickly jump to conclusion this costume shows my cousin as "stupid useless trash"?
Or, should I get offended if I see a person who wears a armless zombie costume? Should I judge his costume by arguing he is trying to mock my crippled friend?
No.
Why?
He is not trying to mock anyone, he is not imitating a specific group/community. He is just portraying a horror figure in our fantasies, stories, movies and myths.
You told you are biased. That's why we need to step back one minute before accusing things or people.
By the way, yes, "mental patient" is not the perfect title for this costume.
They should've changed the name, that was what was wrong with it.
Psycho killer costume are fine, mental patient costumes not so much. Sexy nurse costumes are fine, med-school slut costumes not so much. Nerd costumes are fine, pathetic virgin gamer costumes not so much.
No need to name something so that it insults an entire group of people when there's a perfectly serviceable name around that doesn't.
Psycho killer costume are fine, mental patient costumes not so much. Sexy nurse costumes are fine, med-school slut costumes not so much. Nerd costumes are fine, pathetic virgin gamer costumes not so much.
No need to name something so that it insults an entire group of people when there's a perfectly serviceable name around that doesn't.
This argument does not work at all. The title of the costume wasn't "generic scary Halloween costume", it was "mental patient".Bonecrusher said:
You don't care that it said that, because you don't care about the plight of mental patients and the constant stigma they battle.
Maybe you would be up-in-arms if it was a costume of a nerd with glasses, acne and a neckbeard, which was labelled "Gamer". This would make you a hypocrite. But maybe you wouldn't care about that either. The nerd/gamer stigma is about one-thousandth of the stigma that the mentally ill face, after all.
The point is, people are well within their rights to be angry about it.
"People are well within their rights to be angry about it"
How?
I've read your posts, you are being evasive to other people's arguments. But when it comes to your personal life, suddenly it becomes the most offensive problem. I have tried to explain why it is not a big deal. I also gave an example from my personal life.
If people think mental patients as "blood sucking crazed killers", then this is more important problem than a simple costume. We need to educate, explain and enlighten those people about mental patients. Removing this Halloween costume doesn't solve anything. It is just overreacting.
How?
I've read your posts, you are being evasive to other people's arguments. But when it comes to your personal life, suddenly it becomes the most offensive problem. I have tried to explain why it is not a big deal. I also gave an example from my personal life.
If people think mental patients as "blood sucking crazed killers", then this is more important problem than a simple costume. We need to educate, explain and enlighten those people about mental patients. Removing this Halloween costume doesn't solve anything. It is just overreacting.
Actually, the thing you're getting all hot and bothered over is that they did not specify what 'kind' of mental patient it was (being one of those 'horror-movie psycho murderer mental patients' rather than the much more mundane real world patients who are just... regular people), and that their broad label as just 'mental patient' was offensive. So you're totally misrepresenting any 'equivilence'.James Joseph Emerald said:
To do the true equivalent, the costumes would all need to have overly generic labels:
Having a sexy baby outfit called "Baby"
Having a sexy nurse outfit called "Nurse"
Having a blood-soaked straight-jacket-clad murderer outfit called "Mental patient".
... I'm actually curious if all their costumes just had overly generic labels, i mean considering they're Halloween costumes having 'horror movie cliché *name*' seems a bit redundant, in which case i could see why they'd just be like
"yeah ok, gotta write up these costume names:
(*evil axe wielding demon-monster clown*) okay we've got "clown", (*horrific blood drenched scarecrow with scythe hands*) that's a "scarecrow", (*werewolf costume*) here's "wolf" , (*the costume in question*) and last up is the "mental patient". Cool, job well done... time for some coffee"
I think this is blown up a bit much. Simply looking at the costume, ask yourself, what is it?
I think common names would be "escaped serial killer" "80's era slasher" "Psychotic killer" "Crazy ax wielder" and so on. I high doubt anyone would ever go "Yup, that there is your standard mentally ill individual". There is nothing standard about it, there is no association between what amounts to a common theme of Halloween costume and your every day mentally unwell individual except in the movies the psychotic killers tend to be in "insane asylums" or called mental patients.
I can understand the basic idea that "mental patient" can be related to all mentally ill, but one look at the costume and you can see it is exaggeration and homage to slasher movies. At that point all that should have been done is ask them to rename it something else and move on.
I think common names would be "escaped serial killer" "80's era slasher" "Psychotic killer" "Crazy ax wielder" and so on. I high doubt anyone would ever go "Yup, that there is your standard mentally ill individual". There is nothing standard about it, there is no association between what amounts to a common theme of Halloween costume and your every day mentally unwell individual except in the movies the psychotic killers tend to be in "insane asylums" or called mental patients.
I can understand the basic idea that "mental patient" can be related to all mentally ill, but one look at the costume and you can see it is exaggeration and homage to slasher movies. At that point all that should have been done is ask them to rename it something else and move on.
I don't really see anything wrong with this, other than I guess the name. I mean I can see how you could argue that naming it "Mental Patient" would be a bit upsetting, but "mentally ill" is a very, very broad term. The brain is a very complex organ and there are many, many ways for things to go wrong. When something does, it is referred to as a mental illness, or a mental disorder. Chances are, you have one. People with Bipolar Disorder are "mentally ill." So are guys who decide to shoot up schools. There is something wrong with both of these people's heads, but to equate them is stupid. Obviously, a murderer and a bipolar person are drastically different. However, they can both be described as "mentally ill." If you treat them, they can both be described as "mental patients." Anyone with half a brain can tell the difference, so calling an institutionalized psycho killer a "mental patient" should not be considered offensive because it supposedly paints all mental patients in a bad light, because it just doesn't. To call a Halloween costume of a psycho killer "mental patient" is a bit dubious, I suppose, due to how blanketing it us, but when you keep in mind that it is above all else a Halloween costume, then suddenly it makes perfect sense that by "mental patient", they were referring to the serial killer psycho side of the mental illness coin, not the bipolar side.
Why did they call it "mental patient" instead of just "psycho killer?" If I had to guess, because it's supposed to look like he just escaped a mental facility. Where he was a patient.
No harmful intent, just poor phrasing.
Why did they call it "mental patient" instead of just "psycho killer?" If I had to guess, because it's supposed to look like he just escaped a mental facility. Where he was a patient.
No harmful intent, just poor phrasing.
Dress your child up like a psychotic killer and somehow the part that people take issue with is the implication that it's a mental patient.
No, you are not implying that all mental patients are psychos, you are portraying one psycho who happens to be a mental patient.
It's like saying you can't have a black gangster in a movie because it perpetuates the idea that all black people are gangsters. Enforcing such a rule means most people would become unaware or forgetful of the very real issue of black on black violence and gang culture in certain areas.
Oh wait, that's happened already.
BTW this isn't political correctness. That term has been misused to the point that I think we should just ditch it all together.
No, you are not implying that all mental patients are psychos, you are portraying one psycho who happens to be a mental patient.
It's like saying you can't have a black gangster in a movie because it perpetuates the idea that all black people are gangsters. Enforcing such a rule means most people would become unaware or forgetful of the very real issue of black on black violence and gang culture in certain areas.
Oh wait, that's happened already.
BTW this isn't political correctness. That term has been misused to the point that I think we should just ditch it all together.
To be honest your attitude pisses me off to. What exactly are you offended about? One shop names a costume poorly, complaints accepted costume pulled. What you are doing is blowing this massively out of proportion. I'm not offended because it's a total non-issue. Feel free to continue saving the planet, just don't expect me to give a fuck because I don't find complaining on an internet forum as "constructive" as you do. There are plenty of issues I will defend to the death, and just because I don't fire up at this tiny incedent means I'm the cause of shittiness? You seem to think that because I don't think Asda pulling a poorly worded costume is news, I also don't give a shit about mentally ill people and I'd just tell you to ignore genuine abuse like I have in my previous post? Well with all respect you don't know me so don't try and act like I'm 'stopping progress'.James Joseph Emerald said:
Now you're going by the assumption that homicidal maniacs look like that which is prejudice against homicidal maniacs who keep their murdering habits hidden from the public eye and doesn't harm anyone besides those girls who get beheaded and gutted.James Joseph Emerald said:
Seriously, it's a Halloween costume based off the horror trope of a deranged homicidal maniac (it's a terrible looking costume too). Lots of costumes are based on stereotypes. See the magician costumes? Most magicians don't look that silly, but that's the easiest way to get the point across. They could have named the costume "Stereotypical horror movie runaway, homicidal mental patient that does not portray a realistic view of how people with mental problems actually look like", but that name would be too long for it to be appealing. Is it an accurate view of a mental patient? No, not at all. Is it politically correct? Again, no. Is it a big deal? No, people are aware of the fact that mental patients come in different varieties these days. I know a few people who has some varying degree of mental problems and I don't think even they would take offence at this. All costumes are made with the impression the movies set and frankly I would be more put off if they made a costume that would actually make you look like what we think a mental patient look like rather than the horror movie version of one cause then we would in fact be using the actual stereotype to alienate them.
And while we're at it let's ban ugly costumes because they reinforce the stereotype of disfigurement being scary and the disfigured being dangerous.
No. If you want to call me the PC brigade, sure, but that's what this is.
No. If you want to call me the PC brigade, sure, but that's what this is.
The way I see it, I'm inclined to agree with the people thinking it's too over-sensitive. That costume is in no way representative of a real mental patient.
To say that it is would be to say that Tom and Jerry [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo_cLW913xk] is representative of the average house cat and mouse.
It's so far removed from the truth it becomes almost laughable.
To say that it is would be to say that Tom and Jerry [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo_cLW913xk] is representative of the average house cat and mouse.
It's so far removed from the truth it becomes almost laughable.