Politics in the UK

[rossatdi]

OK It's about time its said, Labour have done a shit job int he past 3 years admittedly, but the Conservatives/Tories will be much worse, it angers me people who know nothing of British Politics are going to vote for them without knowing anything about them. Fucking David Cameron, I feel real sympathy for his son dying, but considering his politics he can go fuck him self, every Conservative MP I see is a complete nobody, George Osborne etc.
To a certain extent I lvoe my country, I don't want to see it ruined by posh, rich people who no sweet FA about the needs of the country, the only people worse are the BNP.
So I just want to know do other Brits see Britain going even more down the shitter thanks to the Tories?

Is very much the case of they've spent too long in power. I'm a natural Labour supporter and I dislike the concept of an old Etonian running the country.

However, after 12 years of power Labour has become complacent in certain areas. They've not done a bad job, regardless of the media coverage, and I find it very difficult to see how another goverment would have done any better.

Politics is cyclical and Labour will go out this time. Hopefullly, if they hold it together they may be able to avoid collapsing and have a real chance in 5 years time.

 

[Agema]

The Conservatives are going to pull this country back from the shit Labour has left us in. Billions in debt, a government that no one can trust and one of the most useless prime ministers we have ever had. Someone above me said the Conservatives are corrupt, but both main parties are corrupt as hell. the expenses scandal only confirmed this.
TYhis Labour government has a retarded immigration policy. They let in all those people who will just be a drain on the economy whilst those who have done a service or will be beneficial (e.g the iraqi interpreters) are not allowed in.
Remember the whole thing with the Ghurkas? The labour party, who you are so proud of, refused to give them the help they needed. These were people who were willing to give their lives for OUR country, and the labour government wanted to refuse them citizenship.
Labour has left us with an economy in ruins and has shaken the entire country's faith in british politics.
I'm not saying the Conservatives can do much better, but they certainly cant do any worse. I know i'm voting Conservative.
And you personally, you seem to me to be someone whohas taken the stereotypical view of the Conservatives, without actually looking at their policies and without listening to what they have to say, and used that to sing labours praises.

I don't know how old (or to be precise, young) you are, but I can remember most of the 80s pretty clearly, never mind the 90s. Most of the stuff you're talking about, that sort of stuff goes down every single government and you'll learn that with perspective.

I remember news reports when three million British people were unemployed. The miners' strike, Poll Tax, Westland scandal, selling off the public utilities for a tiny percentage of their real value, refusing to back the anti-Apartheid South Africa boycott; if you think corruption, how about Jeffrey Archer, Neil Hamilton and Jonathan Aitken? Restriction of civil liberties - the start was the Criminal Justice Act 1994. Or how about the railway privatisation, over 15 years or so since and it's still a mess.

You talk about the current economic crash, who started it? Basically the Tories, with mass deregulation and huge favouring of the financial sector. Who introduced the MP expenses system that was so abused? Funnily enough, that was the Tories too, it's been going on 20 years. Why do people complain about hoodies, young thugs and crime? That was to a large extent the Tories too: many of these communities might have been economical failures that needed a shake-up, but Mrs. "There's no such thing as society" Thatcher saw to it they lost their sense of community and social cohesion.

Now, I'm not saying the Tories necessarily did particularly badly and/or haven't improved. But the reality is that stuff goes wrong and governments make mistakes. Never, never get too hung up on what's happened in the last five years, because when the new lot take over, you'll find there are just as many scandals, mistakes, and problems.

Nor trot out the line that the parties are too similar. They are much closer than they used to be, but further apart than you might think. Dig around, and you'll see the Tories really are full of small government ideologues, and Labour are full of people who want to look after the public sector. It's not necessarily what official policy says, what's always sugar-coated. You want to look out for the more intellectual MPs, MEPs, allied think tanks and so on, because they're the people generating the ideas that influence the parties.

Removing Labour would not be a bad thing in some ways as an accusation of complacency and exhaustion of ideas is not unfair. However, there is a very real ideological difference between the two parties, and you don't want to chuck some trash out just for a worse load to blow through the open door.

 

[mightybozz]

Labour needs to go - the cabinet is utterly cowardly and incompetent.

Cameron is a rich public schoolboy Oxford nob who has no policies at all. Can anyone on the escapist tell me what it is Cameron actually believes (and no, vague concepts and ideals are not allowed)?
This is conservative policy in action:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-harsh-truth-about-tory-policies-1815642.html

BNP - I'm glad they keep saying the Battle of Britain has started up again. They're right. They think it's about nationalism. We all know the Battle of Britain was about stopping facism. So yes it is back Griffin, and bring it on. We are British. Our constitution is founded on the rule of law. We stand for liberty, for hope and glory, and we will never stop fighting facism.

LibDem - the only sensible choice. By the way, anyone who says "don't vote for them, they'll never get in" doesn't deserve to live in this country. You are to be removed for failing to understand democracy - if everyone thinks that thought then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Green - tempting, but it would be like voting for Nader in the US. Don't split the anti-tory vote!

 

[JanatUrlich]

I'll be voting Conservative.

 

[Chechosaurus]

It's simply democracy. While I am utterly convinced that the Conservatives would be even worse than Labour have been (which is kind of like saying that one prefers to have ones home obliterated by explosives rather than acid), if people want that then let them have that. People get the politicians they deserve.

Saying that it's what the people want is an unfair statement. The Labour government has 349 seats (may have lost one or two during recent by elections)which is just over half of those in parliament. However, the total population that actually turns out to vote is in and around the 64% area. This means that the majority of people in this country did NOT vote for Labour and the majority of people will NOT vote for the conservatives but they will get into power regardless. The governing of this country is chosen by approximately 35% of its eligible electorate. This is just plain unfair and it leads to detached right wing governments which the people didn't vote for and this is why the Tories WILL win but they won't be there because the people want them there.

 

[Nickolai77]

Okay I have no knowledge of the people or system of the british parliament system but I just want to put this into perspective from an republican in america point of view.

It appears to me that the american conservative movement is spreading in britain and most british conservatives are aligning themselves up with american conservatives. The problem I see here is that their two philosophies are completely different. By changing the british conservative party into an american based conservative party is horrible for the country because the conservative movement in america is based not only in the rhetoric of god, low taxes, and no government, but also crusade like politics. Which means that the conservative rule is god's rule.

I carn't see God creeping into British politics, while it is true that Gordon Brown and David Cameron are christian, they tread very lightly around their beliefs and are very careful in expressing them. For instance Brown claims to use his religion as a "moral compass" whilst Cameron has also agreed that relgion and the teachings of Jesus can be a source of moral inspiration, however he was quick to add that that does not mean that secualar philsophies are devoid of any morality. Religion is so unimportant in politics because Britain is a very secualar nation. This is dispite the fact that we have bishops in the house of lords and have an education system where our primary schools are run by the church, but this, almost by some wierd paradox, has produced a nation of apathetic agnostics.

In terms of economic philsophy the conservaties have always been like the American republicans, just look at Thatcher. In terms of social interferance the conservaties, like the republicans, can also be interventionalist. For instance the Conservatives preach about restoring family values and such. However, British conservatives would never go as far as some American republicans do and argue vocally against abortion and euthanasia. There is a general politcal consenses that such things are seen as a matter of personal conscience, and are generally debated (in a rather civilised manner) within the House of Lords.



Now, my view on British politics at the moment

The Conservatives have it right (largelly) about the economy, we need tax cuts to stimunlate growth, and cuts in public services are necessary if the government is to earn cash. However, i think these cuts should only be a temporary measure, the conservatives may go too far and unfairly cut benifit to certain peoples beyond reason, and also neglect the welfare system. I'm also not that keen on Cameron, he is too popularist and will do anything just for votes, even if public opinion is simply stupid,which is probably why he is so anti-Europe. The conservatives are also too anti-Europe, and what i don't want is the UK to become politically isoloated in a rising era of international co-operation and the globalisation of politics.

Labour's stance on Europe is more acceptable, but i don't see them making the necessary cuts in the welfare system, nor will they lower taxes sufficently. However, at least they will look after the welfare system. Another problem with labour is that they are comprimising our personal liberaties with all the anti terror legilsation, ID cards, DNA data bases and CCTV everywhere. It's getting a bit too 1984 for me. Perhaps the Conservatives would be the same, i don't know.

The liberals have always been against ID cards and critical of the anti terror leglisation, i would also trust them to a run a welfare system fairly and not make unneccessary handouts. After all, they invented the concept of a welfare state. They also want to cut taxes, which is great but i don't think they plan on cutting public service spending enough. While there stance on Europe is fine, they are a bit too green and want to push forward with clean energy resources, when the UK is getting increasingly relant on outside exporters for energy, and the problem of power cuts is becoming increasingly likely. We carn't afford to be faffing about with wind farms and tides, we need hard, realistic, tried and tested nuclear power.

So really.... i'm just clueless as to who to support.

 

[TheZapper]

The conservatives will get in because everyone is either too young or too stupid to remember the terrible things that they did before. Everyone blames labour for benefits culture, but it actually began under the conservatives.

Although I doubt that it will be quite the same this time because Cameron hasn't really got a clue and has just been saying what people want to hear when in fact he will change nothing.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

I wish the British public would stop bouncing between Labour and the CONservatives(running gag that).

As for me, I would vote Lib Dems.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

OK It's about time its said, Labour have done a shit job int he past 3 years admittedly, but the Conservatives/Tories will be much worse, it angers me people who know nothing of British Politics are going to vote for them without knowing anything about them. Fucking David Cameron, I feel real sympathy for his son dying, but considering his politics he can go fuck him self, every Conservative MP I see is a complete nobody, George Osborne etc.
To a certain extent I lvoe my country, I don't want to see it ruined by posh, rich people who no sweet FA about the needs of the country, the only people worse are the BNP.
So I just want to know do other Brits see Britain going even more down the shitter thanks to the Tories?

This country is already f**ked up.
Frankly, the Conservatives are the only hope left, unless you want to scrap democracy. Yes they will cause massive reforms, but they are needed. The dole is far too lenient, the civil service is horrifically inefficient and the prisons are over crowded.
The country needs to kick the scum into jail or into the gutter to die from poverty.
The NHS & almost all government services need to lay many people off as it's way to inefficient. Yes, unemployment is sh*t, but it needs to happen as the country can't pretend it's still in the 70's.
There need to be more prisons and real sentences handed out, not slaps on the wrist. Unfortunately, the social sector most likely to commit crime and collect benefits are labour's target areas, so they aren't going to do squat. However, I have a feeling the Conservatives will, which is most needed.
It's a lesser of two evils. Labour looks after the lazy and criminals, Conservative the rich. At least the rich won't give me problems on the street.

I think you have been eating too many tabloids. The reason we have a crime spike at the moment is due to the lack of social security provisions. If someone has nothing and no means to feed themselves they will steal. It really is that simple. New Labours New Deal scheme means that after a certain period of time people are forced to do six months of community service, and if for some reason they fail to take this "opportunity" they have all of their benefits stopped for 26 weeks.

What are they supposed to eat for six months exactly?

By the way, if you are going to come back with some crap about unemployment being the result of... lazy people... as opposed to a dynamic economy (who needs miners now?), too many people in certain areas, economic deprivation, poor education, and all of those other factors they really, go away.

It's simply democracy. While I am utterly convinced that the Conservatives would be even worse than Labour have been (which is kind of like saying that one prefers to have ones home obliterated by explosives rather than acid), if people want that then let them have that. People get the politicians they deserve.

Saying that it's what the people want is an unfair statement. The Labour government has 349 seats (may have lost one or two during recent by elections)which is just over half of those in parliament. However, the total population that actually turns out to vote is in and around the 64% area. This means that the majority of people in this country did NOT vote for Labour and the majority of people will NOT vote for the conservatives but they will get into power regardless. The governing of this country is chosen by approximately 35% of its eligible electorate. This is just plain unfair and it leads to detached right wing governments which the people didn't vote for and this is why the Tories WILL win but they won't be there because the people want them there.

I completely understand and sympathise with what you are saying. I am also shit scared of some band of right wing nutters (like Cameron) getting elected. The problem is they are elected, and the only alternative is dictatorship or communism. If not enough people turn out to vote that is just democracy in action. Remember that huge numbers of people vote for a simple reason - their vote really won't make any difference. I live in Birkenhead (Merseyside). Labour will win here no matter what I do, as it is their safest seat, so I never vote even though I really do have a big opinion on politics.

 

[Agema]

Let's actually look at the claim that Labour has run the national debt right up.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

As you can see, Labour reduced the national debt until about 2001-2002, when it crept up again (the result of increased public sector spending and the odd war) although it plateaus about 35%. Then it spikes, hugely. However, this is the result of the economic crash and the government needing both to pump billions into the economy and also to bail out the banks. Without the crash, debt would still be about 35%. You could make an argument Labour could have reduced the debt more, but why should they have when - before the crash - public debt was low? And why hammer Labour for a debt around 35%, when under the Tories in the 1990s it was over 40%?

Secondly, also before we go totally berserk about debt, bear in mind that although the UK has a national debt maybe 55-60% of the economy, Japan's is about 200%, Italy is about 100%, the USA about 70%. We still actually have pretty low debt on an international scale.

 

[Smudge91]

I feel really sorry for Gordon Brown as he came in at a really wrong time and doesn't have much charisma. However i agree the Tory's are going to be awful, i just don't trust David Cameron theres something about him, he seems really slimey. But i suppose Cameron is the lesser of two evils