[Politics] Nazi China

[Trunkage]

A backbencher for the Australian government drew connections between China and Nazi Germany. And Australia is acting like France in the 1930s

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-australia-49275897/australia-pm-weighs-in-on-china-row-over-nazi-germany-comparison

This is just after Mike Pompeo came over and asked Australia to put US conventional missle in Darwin to help deal with China. Also, just after China deliberately crashed the world economy last week (to continue the game of chicken Xi Jinping and Trump are playing thats hurting everyone else) and got around the soy bean bans by buying from Brazil. Thus destroying part of the US agriculture industry

Pompeo had been asking more countries to step up and push back against the China (similar things have been said about Europe and Russia).

Couple of issue: China is Australia's largest trading partner. One country in this alliance, India, is the one flex into Kashmir and trying to claim it for their own. Which makes them more like Nazi Germany before WW2. Lastly, the TPP was partially about forcing China into recognising intellectual property Rights. And that was destroyed by Trump.

Anyway, way too many of these countries have nuclear warheads. Not impressed with any of their behaviour at the moment

 

[Seanchaidh]

And yet the United States has more prisoners.

 

[Hawki]

China doesn't have the best human rights record in the world, but comparing it to Nazi Germany is rediculous. If we have to compare it to Germany at all, maybe Germany pre-WWI; rising power coming into conflict with established powers. Back then it was the UK and France, now it's the United States.

 

[Satinavian]

The comparison is stupid

Also the US has problems finding allies in its trade war with China. At least the EU certainly won't join. And seems to be better off this way even if the economic damage in the two biggest trading partners will hurt somewhat. But if Australia really wants to bind itself to the US, well, that is their decision.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

China is authoritarian but not all authoritarians are nazi. China is communist. Thing is, both left and right, when taken to the extreme, become authoritarian.


The TPP was a garbage fire though, it allowed multinational corporations to sue countries. That would basically put corporations on a higher place than governments, since a lot of countries out there have much less money than some multinational corporations.


If Trump ever did one thing that's good, it was killing the TPP.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

The TPP was a garbage fire though, it allowed multinational corporations to sue countries. That would basically put corporations on a higher place than governments, since a lot of countries out there have much less money than some multinational corporations.


If Trump ever did one thing that's good, it was killing the TPP.

Okay, say Lockheed wanted to sue the Australian government. How the fuck is it going to do that? The Australian government will make sure its not breaking any of its own laws - blatantly at least - and then a letter for the Attorney or Solicitor-General will be returned saying 'No Case to Answer'. Which is polite legalese for 'Fuck off'.

And even if its a smaller nation like say, Haiti. What are Lockheed going to do when the government of the nation just crosses their arms and says 'Shan't'? Invade? Petition Congress to go to war?

 

[Baffle]

The Australian government will make sure its not breaking any of its own laws - blatantly at least - and then a letter for the Attorney or Solicitor-General will be returned saying 'No Case to Answer'. Which is polite legalese for 'Fuck off'.

IIRC, it isn't about breaking laws, but would allow companies to sue, for example, if a change a country made negatively affected a company's profits - e.g. an increase in labour protections. OTOH it's possible I just dreamed that.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The TPP was a garbage fire though, it allowed multinational corporations to sue countries. That would basically put corporations on a higher place than governments, since a lot of countries out there have much less money than some multinational corporations.


If Trump ever did one thing that's good, it was killing the TPP.

Okay, say Lockheed wanted to sue the Australian government. How the fuck is it going to do that? The Australian government will make sure its not breaking any of its own laws - blatantly at least - and then a letter for the Attorney or Solicitor-General will be returned saying 'No Case to Answer'. Which is polite legalese for 'Fuck off'.

And even if its a smaller nation like say, Haiti. What are Lockheed going to do when the government of the nation just crosses their arms and says 'Shan't'? Invade? Petition Congress to go to war?

If you are found guilty at an international court and refuse to abide by the judgement there's gonna be a host of penalties that the international community can reasonably lever against you until you comply.

This also applies to individuals within these countries, as well. People would be open to be sued for breaking the laws of the countries these corporations are housed in, even if their conduct is legal where they actually live. This is mainly true with things like copyright law, for example, since different countries have different laws, but with the TPP the most stringent law among all countries would functionally become the law every country would have to abide by.

 

[generals3]

The Australian government will make sure its not breaking any of its own laws - blatantly at least - and then a letter for the Attorney or Solicitor-General will be returned saying 'No Case to Answer'. Which is polite legalese for 'Fuck off'.

IIRC, it isn't about breaking laws, but would allow companies to sue, for example, if a change a country made negatively affected a company's profits - e.g. an increase in labour protections. OTOH it's possible I just dreamed that.

That's not really how would it work. Companies can only sue when countries pass legislations which infringe upon the free trade agreement. Labor laws do not affect free trade, but a country imposing tarrifs or adding legislations making it harder for companies to export goods or services to it would. And that's what most people are afraid of, that current regulations would get broken down or new ones would be impossible to add. A lot of EU countries/citizens feared a trade agreement with the US would force the EU to accept its hormone fed meat or GMO crops. These things could be mitigated by adding the necessary clauses into the deal but it is hard to make clauses that take into account potential future regulations based on future findings.

 

[generals3]

China doesn't have the best human rights record in the world, but comparing it to Nazi Germany is rediculous. If we have to compare it to Germany at all, maybe Germany pre-WWI; rising power coming into conflict with established powers. Back then it was the UK and France, now it's the United States.

From a military/imperialistic point of view China can very well be compared with pre-WW2 germany. It is claiming territory against everyone's will and against international law, has an ever increasing military strength and is being generally ignored by everyone.

And yet the United States has more prisoners.

Perhaps, but China is culturally cleansing an entire region (Xinjiang). Are all the muslims in "reeducation camps" counted as "prisoners" in the statistics?

 

[Hawki]

From a military/imperialistic point of view China can very well be compared with pre-WW2 germany. It is claiming territory against everyone's will and against international law, has an ever increasing military strength and is being generally ignored by everyone.

Sort of...but China's land grabs in the South China Sea are still a far cry away from Nazi Germany outright annexing territory - territory that in the leadup to WWII, it never had a claim to (e.g. Czechslovakia). And similarly, Nazi Germany was stirring up hatred towards Jews, gypsies, and so on. You can point to the Unghyr, but as tragic as that is, it's nowhere near the scale of Nazi Germany's attrocities. "Reeducation camps" aren't Auschitz.

Also, in the context of international law and military strength, are we really putting the US on a pedastal above China? Need I remind everyone that Iraq was an illegal war built on falsehoods that, among other things, created a power vacuum that led to ISIS? Has China outright invaded another country in recent decades?

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

The TPP was a garbage fire though, it allowed multinational corporations to sue countries. That would basically put corporations on a higher place than governments, since a lot of countries out there have much less money than some multinational corporations.


If Trump ever did one thing that's good, it was killing the TPP.

Okay, say Lockheed wanted to sue the Australian government. How the fuck is it going to do that? The Australian government will make sure its not breaking any of its own laws - blatantly at least - and then a letter for the Attorney or Solicitor-General will be returned saying 'No Case to Answer'. Which is polite legalese for 'Fuck off'.

And even if its a smaller nation like say, Haiti. What are Lockheed going to do when the government of the nation just crosses their arms and says 'Shan't'? Invade? Petition Congress to go to war?

If you are found guilty at an international court and refuse to abide by the judgement there's gonna be a host of penalties that the international community can reasonably lever against you until you comply.

This also applies to individuals within these countries, as well. People would be open to be sued for breaking the laws of the countries these corporations are housed in, even if their conduct is legal where they actually live. This is mainly true with things like copyright law, for example, since different countries have different laws, but with the TPP the most stringent law among all countries would functionally become the law every country would have to abide by.

The United States is, last I checked, not a member of any international legal body. Primarily because it doesn't want its soldiers tried by anyone other than themselves. So I still don't see how a US company would achieve this unless it joined said legal body.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

And yet the United States has more prisoners.

Are we only counting officially known prisoners or are we also including people who have mysteriously disappeared after critiquing China?

 

[Saelune]

China is authoritarian but not all authoritarians are nazi. China is communist.

China is as communist as North Korea is a People's Democratic Republic.

As in, its in name only.

China is a right-wing fascist country. Same with Russia and North Korea.

 

[sonofliber]

You do realice you dont need to be a nazi to do all that? It used to be call imperialism in the good old days.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

China is authoritarian but not all authoritarians are nazi. China is communist.

China is as communist as North Korea is a People's Democratic Republic.

As in, its in name only.

China is a right-wing fascist country. Same with Russia and North Korea.

North Korea is communist too, watch a documentary, they go on about the proletariat all the time.

Communism can be reached in democratic methods too, at least initially. I don't know why you'd think them claiming to be democratic would mean they can't be communist.

Russia is definitely right wing fascist but China and NK are authoritarian late stage communism countries, which indeed look a lot like fascist right wing countries, because the core element in both of those types of government is authoritarianism and lack of freedom for the people, lack of the ability to exercise free speech and being forced to utter compelled speech chiefly among them. (they teach little kids national anthems that deify their leader as soon as they can speak at like age 3 in NK)

 

[stroopwafel]

Chinese communism is just a means to an end, to maintain social stability and prevent civil unrest. The reason they haven't intervened in the Hong Kong riots(whose population oppose the extradition treaty) is that they prioritize economic interests above all else, and HK is of pivotal importance for Chinese trade with it's independent business litigation and insurance companies. Would a 'communist' country ever operate that way? That Trump tries to strong arm the Chinese with increased tariffs for the supposed trade deficit(in no small part thanks to American companies having outsourced almost it's entire industrial production) only shows the Chinese can't be bullied into submission anymore. Their response however has always been measured and non-escalating. Even with the nuclear crisis in North Korea they have taken the initiative. Sure, mainland China is authoritarian and criticism against the government isn't tolerated but the U.S. still has more people incarcerated. Make of that what you will. The U.S. shows way more military aggression as well, espescially in another attempt to strong arm Iran by blocking the Strait of Hormuz and choking the country with sanctions hoping to provoke civil war because of Trump's Saudi interests.

That Pompeo now has to beg the Australians for support only shows the U.S. is no longer the only superpower. China is becoming an equal rival. Hopefully the U.S won't resort to the divide and conquer tactics Putin is so very fond of. Though the writing is on the wall.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Was it something like this?

I'm sorry, I'll step off the stage now.

 

[Saelune]

China is authoritarian but not all authoritarians are nazi. China is communist.

China is as communist as North Korea is a People's Democratic Republic.

As in, its in name only.

China is a right-wing fascist country. Same with Russia and North Korea.

North Korea is communist too, watch a documentary, they go on about the proletariat all the time.

Communism can be reached in democratic methods too, at least initially. I don't know why you'd think them claiming to be democratic would mean they can't be communist.

Russia is definitely right wing fascist but China and NK are authoritarian late stage communism countries, which indeed look a lot like fascist right wing countries, because the core element in both of those types of government is authoritarianism and lack of freedom for the people, lack of the ability to exercise free speech and being forced to utter compelled speech chiefly among them. (they teach little kids national anthems that deify their leader as soon as they can speak at like age 3 in NK)

You totally missed my point. North Korea is a dictatorship. Their elections are shams. They are not a Democracy, or even a Republic. Just because they don't call him King, doesn't mean he isn't a monarch, and an absolute one at that. There is no voting him out of power, nor will he ever step down.

 

[Trunkage]

China is authoritarian but not all authoritarians are nazi. China is communist.

China is as communist as North Korea is a People's Democratic Republic.

As in, its in name only.

China is a right-wing fascist country. Same with Russia and North Korea.

North Korea is communist too, watch a documentary, they go on about the proletariat all the time.

Communism can be reached in democratic methods too, at least initially. I don't know why you'd think them claiming to be democratic would mean they can't be communist.

Russia is definitely right wing fascist but China and NK are authoritarian late stage communism countries, which indeed look a lot like fascist right wing countries, because the core element in both of those types of government is authoritarianism and lack of freedom for the people, lack of the ability to exercise free speech and being forced to utter compelled speech chiefly among them. (they teach little kids national anthems that deify their leader as soon as they can speak at like age 3 in NK)

Does China or North Korea have a government? Yes. Then it's not Communism