[Politics] Poland Government is SUPER anti-LGBT

[Saelune]

Holy crap Poland!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poland-lgbt-free-zones-homophobia-hate-speech-law-justice-party-a9013551.html

The misleadingly titled 'Law and Justice Party' of Poland, the largest political party in the country is vehemently, like Nazi-level anti-LGBT, creating zones of anti-LGBT and comparing LGBT people to pedophiles.

The fuck Poland!? I guess the Nazis never left.

Right-wing views, in all parts of the world are bigoted. That is what being right-wing is, bigoted. As long as bigotry is acceptable as a political stance, then the difference between right and left is the difference between evil and good.

tl;dr: Bigoted government creates 'safe spaces' for bigotry.

 

[Elfgore]

Welp, one boogeyman ran out of steam, time to target another I guess? It's almost like that's the only way they can survive or something.... wait... shit.

Seriously though, this shite is vile. I expected better from a country that experienced what can come of this first hand.

 

[Baffle]

You mean the strongly religious Poland where a large percentage of people are Catholic? This is very much not surprising. Shit, obviously, just not surprising.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I thought that this sentiment was pretty common and widespread throughout much of eastern Europe, not just Poland. I didn't think Eastern Europe in general as very safe for LGBTQ people at all really from the stories I have heard, but then again neither is the US.

Majorities of adults in all 15 countries in Western Europe surveyed by Pew Research Center in 2017 support same-sex marriage, including roughly six-in-ten Italians and three-quarters of Swiss adults. Support is even higher in Sweden (88%), Denmark (86%) and the Netherlands (86%).

By contrast, people in Central and Eastern Europe are broadly opposed to the practice. Just 5% of Russians and 9% of Ukrainians, for example, say they favor allowing same-sex marriage. Figures in Poland (32%) and Hungary (27%) are higher, though Poles and Hungarians who support same-sex marriage remain in the minority. The Czech Republic is the only country out of 19 surveyed in Central and Eastern Europe where a majority of adults (65%) support gay marriage.

Likewise, no country in Central or Eastern Europe, not even the Czech Republic , allows same-sex couples to legally marry. However, the Czech Republic, along with Croatia, Estonia, Hungary and several other countries in the region, does allow civil unions. Greece joined this list in late 2015 when it agreed to begin recognizing same-sex civil partnerships despite opposition from the Greek Orthodox Church. Slovenia also allows civil unions, but its voters rejected a 2015 referendum that would have legalized full same-sex marriage. (Ireland, on the other hand, became the world's first country to approve same-sex marriage by popular vote in 2015.)

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/05/30/where-europe-stands-on-gay-marriage-and-civil-unions/

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

There are couple of reasons for this:

1. It's the election year. In fact the parliamentary elections are this October, and for PiS - the ruling party, riling people against the Gay bogeyman is an opportunity to mobilize the voter base. They used "Us vs. Them" narrative many times before(against the refugees/EU/liberals etc. you name it), and they profited from it so far.

2. During past couple of months, Poland was next country in line to be hit by the wave of pedophilic scandals in the Church(shocking, i know), and a long history of covering those up by the hierarchs of said institution.
Naturally, after a brief period of more or less honest concern, right wing started a deflectionary campaign.
For example; Warsaw elects a liberal mayor from the opposition, this year. City Hall takes some steps to pass acts, that would make schools safer, more friendly places for LGBT kids. Right wing, rulling party afililated politicians, and asskissingsympathising with them media declare "no u" and that laws like these are the REAL danger for Our Children etc.

3. The widely defined social conservatism and authority of the Catholic Church that sadly lend themselves to hysteria like above.
Silver lining being that because of this "Alliance of throne and altar" we experienced these past couple of years here, more people do get sick of it, and vocal about it. Which in return provokes louder response from the bigots.

All in all, optimistically, campaigns like these will fade away past the election, after the damage has been done. And the legal situation of gay folk will come back to crappy status quo.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The fuck Poland!? I guess the Nazis never left.

I don't know what it was like before, but apparently conservatism has been massively on the rise in Poland in recent years. I mean, it seems on the rise in most of Europe, but Poland appears to have skipped the "pleasantries" all together.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Oh yeah, Poland is on the whole strongly homophobic. That's been known for quite a while now. Pretty much all of Eastern Europe generally is. I know a fair number of people from those parts and, barring one or two exceptions, none of them are really ok with LGBTs. At best they think it's unnatural, but otherwise 'live and let live' about it.

Also fun how butthurt and defensive a lot of Polish get when you point out how homophobic Poland is. I remember one trying to prove that LGBTs aren't discriminated against because Poland never having had any laws outlawing homosexuality, unlike pretty much all other European countries at some point in history, making it some sort of safe haven for LGBTs. Which is technically true, but not a very convincing argument.

 

[MJpoland]

Okay, I'm not really an outspoken person, but since this thread is about my country I guess I can at least share my view at this.

First thing important to understand here is the background. Poland is an extremely unified demographically country, when it comes to ethnicity, religion and culture, because of it it simply easy to demonize everyone else who "is not like us" - most people living here have close to no contact to culturally different people and thus they are easily manipulated into thinking whatever ruling party/church/elites want. Why I speak of culture here? Because most people see LGBT as a part of western culture/propaganda that has no place in Poland, no matter how wrong it actually is.

As MrCalavera stated in his post current ruling party is very adept at using "us versus them" narrative, due to homogeneous population. Unfortunately they keep high ratings in election polls (due to for example social policies like giving free money for having children) and considering really poor performance of opposition they are very likely to continue ruling this country for many years. That being said these events are just another temporary show for the general public and nothing really will come out of it, besides another example of narrative "western Europe/Germany/USA butts into our politics while they can't handle their own countries" that once again will rally loyalist and boost ratings sigh.

Another problem is that most polish people think of themself as victimized nation (rightfully so considering history). Any interference into our politics from foreign sources will be viewed as aggression by default. Opposition that tried to broker ties with other countries like Germany is viewed as traitors by right-centric majority. This is why making an issue from this event will make things only worse in the long run, its simply better to ignore it and it will simply pass.

 

[Saelune]

Okay, I'm not really an outspoken person, but since this thread is about my country I guess I can at least share my view at this.

First thing important to understand here is the background. Poland is an extremely unified demographically country, when it comes to ethnicity, religion and culture, because of it it simply easy to demonize everyone else who "is not like us" - most people living here have close to no contact to culturally different people and thus they are easily manipulated into thinking whatever ruling party/church/elites want. Why I speak of culture here? Because most people see LGBT as a part of western culture/propaganda that has no place in Poland, no matter how wrong it actually is.

As MrCalavera stated in his post current ruling party is very adept at using "us versus them" narrative, due to homogeneous population. Unfortunately they keep high ratings in election polls (due to for example social policies like giving free money for having children) and considering really poor performance of opposition they are very likely to continue ruling this country for many years. That being said these events are just another temporary show for the general public and nothing really will come out of it, besides another example of narrative "western Europe/Germany/USA butts into our politics while they can't handle their own countries" that once again will rally loyalist and boost ratings sigh.

Another problem is that most polish people think of themself as victimized nation (rightfully so considering history). Any interference into our politics from foreign sources will be viewed as aggression by default. Opposition that tried to broker ties with other countries like Germany is viewed as traitors by right-centric majority. This is why making an issue from this event will make things only worse in the long run, its simply better to ignore it and it will simply pass.

I appreciate the input.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

The fuck Poland!? I guess the Nazis never left.

I don't know what it was like before, but apparently conservatism has been massively on the rise in Poland in recent years. I mean, it seems on the rise in most of Europe, but Poland appears to have skipped the "pleasantries" all together.

Historically I don't think Poland does pleasant things.

 

[votemarvel]

I thought that this sentiment was pretty common and widespread throughout much of eastern Europe, not just Poland. I didn't think Eastern Europe in general as very safe for LGBTQ people at all really from the stories I have heard, but then again neither is the US.

Minor irritation on my part but they mention the United Kingdom but then list the countries that comprise Great Britain, they are two different things.

This is one of the reasons I hate religion. Something designed to spread peace and love is twisted to justify hatred of others. Don't put your hatred on a God, just admit you are an asshole.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

This is one of the reasons I hate religion. Something designed to spread peace and love is twisted to justify hatred of others. Don't put your hatred on a God, just admit you are an asshole.

This is a curious statement. I mean, I wholeheartedly get parts of it. Just be up front with your hate. Don't coward behind it.

But then I wonder why you hate religion? You know it's true purpose (other than to explain things before science) was to spread peace and love. And you know people hoping to be Demagogues twist it all to gain power...

So why hate Religion for that reason? Hate the people who are twisting it.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

Welp, one boogeyman ran out of steam, time to target another I guess? It's almost like that's the only way they can survive or something.... wait... shit.

Seriously though, this shite is vile. I expected better from a country that experienced what can come of this first hand.

Did you really? I mean, look at Israel.

 

[Kwak]

But then I wonder why you hate religion? You know it's true purpose (other than to explain things before science) was to spread peace and love.

Citation for that please. That was never a feature of any religion that I'm aware of until Christ. So authentic christianity probably, but I don't think 'peace and love' is the central teaching of any other religion. It's about obedience to dogma for deferred hypothetical reward.

 

[Trunkage]

But then I wonder why you hate religion? You know it's true purpose (other than to explain things before science) was to spread peace and love.

Citation for that please. That was never a feature of any religion that I'm aware of until Christ. So authentic christianity probably, but I don't think 'peace and love' is the central teaching of any other religion. It's about obedience to dogma for deferred hypothetical reward.

Christ was an amalgam from a bunch of religions. For example, a lot of ideas transfer when the Isralities and Zoroastrians were exiled together in Babylon. Before then, the Israelites had no comprehension of Heaven and Hell. Today, a kid can become a priest in zoroastrianism as long as they show good moral qualities

I'd also point out Buddhism started before Christ. It's more lovey dovey than Christianity

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

But then I wonder why you hate religion? You know it's true purpose (other than to explain things before science) was to spread peace and love.

Citation for that please. That was never a feature of any religion that I'm aware of until Christ. So authentic christianity probably, but I don't think 'peace and love' is the central teaching of any other religion. It's about obedience to dogma for deferred hypothetical reward.

... Why are you asking me that when I'm quoting the poster who actually said it?

 

[bluegate]

Well, there's a reason why eastern European countries are often looked down upon by western European countries, you just found yourself one of those reasons.

 

[Satinavian]

Citation for that please. That was never a feature of any religion that I'm aware of until Christ. So authentic christianity probably, but I don't think 'peace and love' is the central teaching of any other religion. It's about obedience to dogma for deferred hypothetical reward.

There is some speculation that religion helped humans to form bigger communities and get around the instinctive behavior of only being nice to people you know as individuals and react xenophobic towards everyone else. Gods were treated as mutual friends who would disapprove if you are crappy to those other people and might also observe you while doing so.

It is not really proven though yet.



Personally i don't think Polands homophobia has much to do with religion anyway. The problem is more that anglo-based LBGTQ-movements have been more visible (pride events and stuff) than polish ones and now anything related to gay rights is considered "foreign cultural influence" which gets the nationalists riled up.

 

[Abomination]

I'd also point out Buddhism started before Christ. It's more lovey dovey than Christianity

Yeah but if you're poor don't worry, when you reincarnate you'll be rich because of your suffering... please don't revolt, it'll be bad for your karma, know your place.

 

[Trunkage]

I'd also point out Buddhism started before Christ. It's more lovey dovey than Christianity

Yeah but if you're poor don't worry, when you reincarnate you'll be rich because of your suffering... please don't revolt, it'll be bad for your karma, know your place.

I don't know how that's worse than 'be good and you'll receive riches in heaven' from Christianity and Islam.