Poll: A question concerning a particular character's absence from The Dark Knight Rises (Mild Spoilers)

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Jezzascmezza

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Aug 18, 2009
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So, anyone who has seen The Dark Knight Rises by now knows fully well that the character of the Joker, (played brilliantly by the late Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight), was completely absented from the film. Despite having such an impact on the previous Batman movie, and being one of the major reasons as to why the film was so popular, he was nowhere to be seen in Nolan's final Batman movie. Not only was he not seen, he wasn't even spoken of; there wasn't even a single line of dialogue that hinted at what became of him.

Now, I am aware of the main reason the Joker was not seen or heard of in the film- they wanted to be respectful towards Heath Ledger, and thought that to include any reference to the Joker would be deemed offensive to his memory. But there's one thing they seem to have forgotten to consider- Heath Ledger is not the Joker. Heath Ledger played the Joker.

Now it's extremely sad and all that such a talented actor died so young, and I'm not trying to dilute the tragedy of his death, but in a way, I find not referencing the Joker out of respect for Ledger's memory to be more offensive than it would have been to allude to him, as by "respecting him" by not hinting at the Joker, isn't that, in a way, linking him very closely to such a vile and horrible character? Is it not almost suggesting that the real person and the fictional character are one and the same? The memory of the real person has to be so kept so sacred that a character he played cannot be mentioned at all in a film made after the actor's death?

Can't we be trusted to be intelligent enough to distinguish actor from character? Would there really have been a massive shit-storm if there had at least been a couple of lines referencing the Joker's whereabouts during the events of The Dark Knight Rises, or showing some flashbacks of him at some point in the film, as his actions in The Dark Knight greatly affected the city of Gotham and the character of Bruce Wayne that we see in The Dark Knight Rises.

Please excuse my somewhat nonsensical rambling, and I apologise if I'm in the vast minority here and have offended many by suggesting that a character played by a now dead actor should have been alluded to in a film he was not alive to act in.
I'd appreciate any additional thoughts on this topic.
 

L0dest0ne

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Sep 24, 2012
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I just assumed he died at the end of the previous movie. Even if he was alive, he would be competing with Bane for the spot of main villain, and then we get something like Transformers 3: a giant clusterfuck of bad guys. Not so good for the story.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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Well the legacy of the Joker in Nolan's universe is focused on what he did to Harvey Dent, and that stuff gets mentioned a lot, even if the Joker isn't mentioned directly.

Also, to have him appear again would definitely make for too many villains. Batman Begins and the Dark Knight were very well balanced with one main and one supporting villain in each (Ra's Al Ghul and Scarecrow in Begins, and The Joker and Two Face in Dark Knight). The Dark Knight Rises, as well as already having Bane and Thalia Al Ghul, was also thematically much closer to Begins than Dark Knight, so to have The Joker come swanning back into the show would have just made a huge mess of things, not to mention that nobody to possibly pull off a recreation of Ledger's Joker. At best it would be poor by comparison; at worst, it would be downright insulting by comparison.
 

Supercereal

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Mar 3, 2012
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I had heard a filthy internet rumour i believe from a fatman on batman Smodcast that Rises was originally going to be the Joker trial (Which in my opinion would have made the better movie).
As for being offended no i wouldn't be if they had mentioned what had happened to him.
 

Dr. Cakey

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Feb 1, 2011
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I thought a good way to include (that is, mention) the Joker would have been when Batman explains why Bane has the trigger for time-bomb rather than some random person. Like, "Bane isn't the Joker. He doesn't just want chaos" or something like that.
 

Callate

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Dec 5, 2008
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Heath Ledger wasn't the Joker, but the Joker as existed in the Nolan version of Batman was exclusively played by Heath Ledger, so yes, I think having another actor play him would have been a disservice. I wouldn't have minded some mention of him, though, so long as it was in passing (much like the Scarecrow's presence in TDK) rather than an essential plot point.

Many years have passed since the events of TDK in TDKR, though; I don't really feel it's somehow inappropriate to not mention him at all.
 

repeating integers

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Mar 17, 2010
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Didn't Nolan once say he'd been executed in between the events of the two movies?

Makes sense to me. The guy certainly committed enough crimes.
 

polymath

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Aug 28, 2008
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I think you're overlooking the fact that Ledger's death affected Chris Nolan and the crew. If someone you were friends with were to die, don't you think you'd be reluctant to make a casual allusion to them for no real narrative benefit?

I'm fairly certain Nolan and co alluded to this in interviews. So while it may not affect your personal enjoyment of the film they preferred to ignore it altogether then doing something that they may have viewed as belittling his memory.
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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I think it's far less a question of us and much more a question of Nolan, Bale and the rest of the crew.

It didn't bother me anyway. If anything TDKR echoes Begins more than TDK, and really it was what became of Dent that had the actual, lasting legacy on the narrative.
 
Apr 24, 2008
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I found myself noticing that there wasn't even passing mentions of the joker and it made my mind wander...it dragged me out of the experience a little.

Given how much he instigated the circumstances going into TDKR it was strange...
 

likalaruku

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Nov 29, 2008
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Heath Ledger will never be my Joker. I don't care for the Nolan Batman movies. I liked the way things were in the comics before the stupid reboot.
 

Torrasque

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Aug 6, 2010
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You forget that many years have passed between Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises. Many years of Bruce Wayne not being Batman. So either the Joker has been finally dealt with by the public (some jail somewhere or something) or the remnants of the mob finally got him? Maybe the Joker just lost interest in Gotham since Batman was no longer around, and he is terrorizing somewhere else.

Most Batman movies/shows do this thing where, after a villain has been captured and dealt with, their story arc finishes and they cease to exist until needed for the story again. While they cease to exist, they are in some prison, or missing, or maybe even dead. The system remains though: when a villain has been dealt with, they have been dealt with.

Da fack. My captcha is "i'm batman" o_O