BOOM headshot65 said:
Actually....yes, I would say that a driving related problem would be preferable to sex related problems. I guess that is very different. I will be having my kids learn to drive when they can reach the pedals, maybe even before. I will teach my kids to shoot when whey can lift the gun (granted, it will be with an airsoft gun since they are safer, but still). Sex....I will tell them that there are safe options, but they should wait because its the safest option, and they will be punished, but PLEASE be safe at least.
While I can understand the car, I really don't see the huge advantages of a kid knowing how to handle a gun.
One thought though, while we can argue ad nausea whether an unwanted pregnancy is worse than remaining paralysed due to a car or hunting accident, (I'd argue paralyses is worse, nevertheless...), driving and shooting have the potential of ruining the lives of OTHER people around you and your children. A slip on the route not only endangers you, but everyone who is on that route as well, and hunting can easily end with simple by-passers getting killed.
Taking that in consideration, why would you say that driving or hunting-related problems are still preferable to sex-related problems? (and by that I assume you mean problems resulting of having sex, since Jarimir has a already gone in detail about problems abstinence can create)
Also, the reason my girlfriend is mad with sex is not because she was abused. It is because her mom was cheated on by her Dad and 3 step dads, she looks around at all the cheating and divorces in the US, and she blames ALL of this on the sex. Hench, her disgust for sex, and liking that I want to wait.
That... is really, really messed up. I feel sorry for your girlfriend. I do feel her reaction is very misplaced however, but I am not in her situation nor a psychologist, so I won't comment on this further.
I may not take after the Joycelyn Elders [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joycelyn_Elders] types that say that "lets just give people contraception and lets put dispensers in schools for students" and find those ideas to be insane, I find the Pat Robertson [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson] "You will abstain and that is THE ONLY OPTION!!!!!!" types to be just as bad. The middle ground I outlined "Safe options exist, and use those, but PLEASE!! just wait." to be the best option, but that is entirely my opinion.
I like dispensers in schools ? better them being there than having unwanted pregnancies popping up. However, they should be combined with proper sex ed about consequences of not using contraception and how to use said contraception properly, otherwise they may as well be giving out candy. Actually, a better compromise I found was the school nurse giving out free condoms: we could just go up and ask her, and she would make sure we knew what to do with them.
In all seriousness, both of us feel that we would rather have no sex or bad sex but get along in every other area than to have great sex but not get along in other areas.
But we dont care about the sex. Everyone keeps pounding on about "sexual compatability" and "is she any good in bed?" but to us its not a big deal.
"Is she any good in bed?" is not really an argument... Nobody is good in bed the first times. I call that invalid.
I can however confirm that sexual compatibility is a real thing, from a personal example and a family one. The personal example is a guy I dated for a year and who really did not work out for me ? it was a serious problem in that in his views, I did not react to his stimulations as he expected me to, and no length of communication managed to solve this. In the end, we broke up over a different matter altogether, but that contributed to bringing the relationship to an end.
The other one is my uncle - we have a pretty good thing going on in my family, everyone so far had managed to stay happily married for at least 23 years. However, two members of my family (who have actually been together the longest) are now getting separated, based on the fact that there is no more sexual drive between them. They still got along perfectly with each other, had a great intellectual relationship, but the lack of a sexual relationship got them to drive apart, to the point where my uncle cheated on her. After some thought, he decided that it was a sign that things simply did not work anymore, and decided to own up to it and tell his wife, which was a tipping point for both of them.
Thing is, while they are still great friends and still have a great intellectual understanding, in their case it did not suffice to hold their marriage together. This is not something I heard only from my uncle, but from his wife and my mother as well.
There is actually a sentiment that I saw one here once about how "you wouldnt buy a car without test driving it, so why would you marry someone without knowing if the sex is good[footnote] Just as an aside: Both of the trucks I have owned I got without test driving, because if you look under the hood and at other important parts, you can tell right away if it runs fine or not, plus I bought them from a family friend who I knew we could trust. Hence why that arguement doesnt work for me[/footnote]" Well, she didnt see it because she usually avoids posting on here that much because she doesnt like fighting. What was her reaction to it? SHE! FLIPPED! SHIT! She started yelling about how sexist that idea was, and how it proves that people today are oversexed, and how that was a terrible idea to hold.
Ok. You keep mentioning your girlfriend, but what is your own, personal opinion of this?
That said, the idea of comparing anyone to a car, man or woman, and sex to 'test driving' is not sexist, just demeaning to both genders. (and your comparison with your trucks doesn't sit well with me either, not to mention it is conjuring a really messed up image in my mind involving a gynaecologist...) Rather than your comparison, I would say that the argument simply doesn't work because of that: it's demeaning, it's objectifying, and it doesn't matter what gender you are.
Another thing that doesn't sit well with me is that the idea that people being oversexed has to be a negative thing, but I will get to that in a minute.
Which shows exactly what we are working with here. As I said to someone above, all of her Dads and Stepdads cheated on her mom and she blamed it on "them not being able to keep it in their pants." But she knows I am different than that, and the fact that I am willing to wait shows to her that I am in it for the long haul and plan on staying, not just in it for sex or whatever. It shows that I am here because I like her personality and share her interest, not just a desire to get into bed with her. And that, to me, is better than "good" or "bad" sex, especially since I think there is no such thing as "bad" sex if its with someone you care about.......unless someone gets hurt of course.
<end rant/penny for my thoughts>
For me, "bad" sex can still exist, even when you love someone. My experience is that just because you love someone doesn't immediately make them great at sex, it just adds a deeper connection and makes you more willing to invest in it to make it better, and in most cases it does. Sometimes... it doesn't (see what I said earlier about ex-boyfriend).
Related to all this, something I'd like to say to your girlfriend (and you as well): If this works for you, if sex really is not important to you and you prefer having a great intellectual and emotional relationship, that's perfectly fine. That's great, even. All the more power to you! However what you have to understand is that for me (and by extension, some part of the population, since I don't assume I am unique in this) it does not work, but that should not automatically make me an oversexed ***** that is going to cheat on my husband or wife.
The way I see the entire thing is the following: I am aware that I have a rather strong sex drive. Painfully aware, in fact, since many of my boyfriends could not keep up with me, that is incredibly awkward as a woman and actually made me feel bad at times, like something was wrong with me. What follows is that, if I have to share my life with a man or a woman whom I am not sexually compatible with, I won't be satisfied and it won't work out. Similarly, it won't work out if I have nothing in common with that person, and there is no emotional connection. However, as I just said, having an emotional connection is not a guarantee that the sex will be 'good'. I am willing to work on it, don't get me wrong, but I have already illustrated the case with my ex where it simply did not get better.
So the way I see it, if I marry someone whom I have a perfect emotional/intellectual/spiritual connection with, but no physical, I see three outcomes: 1) I am lucky enough to be with someone who accepts that this does not work for me, and I have other needs, and allows me to have casual sex with people outside the marriage and
is ok with it. 2) I will spend the rest of my life frustrated and in an unhappy marriage. 3) I cheat on them, hurt them, our family and I hate myself forever since my moral compass tells me that a good situation to cheat on someone is "never".
None of those are ideal. 1) could eventually be if I could be 100% sure that my partner really has no problem with it, but I could never be and would always be terrified of hurting them.
So I NEED to have sex with someone before choosing to marry him or her. Not just for my sake, but to ensure that the marriage will be a happy and lasting one. And that is not because that's the only thing that matters ? common interests, understanding, personality are extremely important to me, and I could never marry someone if the only reason I was into them was the sex, I wouldn't even get as far as a steady relationship. But sex does remain an important part of a relationship for me, and without a that, there would just be something missing and the relationship as a whole would not work. The story of my uncle just confirms this for me. Of course, there are people for whom it
does work, great for them! That is just not my case.
The idea that this attitude is a result of "people today being oversexed", when it is a natural result of my higher sex drive, and that because I am not willing to wait means I am only in a relationship for the sex, is actually quite hurtful.
But is that so wrong in your eyes? Please do give me your honest opinion, I will gladly hear if from your girlfriend as well.
Well, I am personally pro-life, and while me and my girlfriend would never have one and would never allow our kids to have one, I think it SHOULD be more restricted than it is now. That said, pro-choice does have a point and it shouldnt be TOTALLY illegal, just after a certain point. But I would rather not get off on that tangent, as this subject seems to cause sponanous combustions that evolve into flame wars in seconds.
Not gonna add anything, but I am willing to discuss this further through PM.
And thanks for at least being understanding. This board seems to have a problem with people getting angry over the tiniest things and taking offense to anyone who has an alternate viewpoint, so its good to be able to reasonably debate something for once.
Well, the thing is, attitudes towards sex have always been difficult, and more so towards sexual promiscuity. I mean, sexual repression caused hysteria in women until the early 20th century, and some of us have suffered due to being surrounded by people with conservative viewpoints ? I as a girl more so, when I simply do not understand what the big deal is. You yourself said that you consider anything other than sex after marriage 'shallow', and that your girlfriend thinks people are 'oversexed', criticising opinions different than yours, and I already explained earlier why that bothers me, in the same way people criticising your decision of not having sex before marriage pisses you off.
I know I have often been looked down upon for being very liberal with sex, and yet my attitude towards sex is neither superficial, nor shallow ? in my eyes. I enjoy casual sex, yes. I have had f*ck buddies that I never developed feelings for. Yet I recognise that it's still a very intimate experience. THE most intimate, physically, in fact, and in certain cases, even THE most intimate emotionally. The best way to put my attitude is a quote from a friend: "Sex can be just fun. It can be a deep and meaningful experience. It can be a casual encounter. But it will always matter." And more importantly, I am always aware that a one night stand might mean something completely different to my partner, so I am careful not to hurt anyone's feelings.
I accept that there are people for whom it is different, that some may need a deeper emotional connection to have sex, for others, sex is nothing more than a sport. Others yet may feel that something so intimate can only be shared with their significant other, but it's not my case, so don't force me to behave according to your standards. In fact, seeing how strong my drive is, it would be a cruelty to force me to abstain. And I know you are not forcing me to, but you are forcing your children, and while
it is perfectly in your right, my first though it, "but what if one of them is like me?". Hence the arguments, and hence why these kind of debates can easily get personal and tick people off.
But yes, reasonable debates are good.
