Poll: american only gun poll

[nykirnsu]

I wont vote since I live in Australia, but it has lower crime rates and a no-gun law, so I'm all for anti-gun policies.

 

[SadisticFire]

So many gun threads. I don't understand why there needs to be so many.

I don't believe that guns need to be taken away, or regulated. That is kinda against the second amendment. I think a different solution is to regulate ammunition. If you are truly going to use the gun for 'self defense', why would you need four-hundred rounds? Wouldn't ten work?

Though I think the issue is actually less guns, more of mental health issue in America. If memory serves, I think we abandoned funding for mental health institutions around 1950, I think.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I can't tell you how your country should be, but I can give my opinion on how I think shotguns and assault rifles are not PDWs.

How can you call a full automatic assault rifle "Personal Defence"? what the fuck are you defending against? If someone pointed a pistol at me, I'd be shitting equal amounts of bricks if it were an assault rifle instead. Assault rifles are precisely that. ASSAULT. You ASSAULT with them. How is ASSAULT retailed as DEFENCE in your country? Who the hell do you personally need to ASSAULT to DEFEND your life?

Possibly for that reason, automatic weapons haven't been registered since 1986 (meaning there have been no new ones since that time), and were tightly controlled before that. IIRC, no civilian has ever murdered anyone with a legally obtained automatic weapon in the US.

Of course, every time a semi-automatic rifle based on a military assault rifle is used in a crime in the US, it gets called an assault rifle, but they aren't.

Shotguns are widely seen as being good choices for defense weapons, though.

Oh, and Personal Defence Weapons (PDWs)? That is a military weapon designed for rear-echelon forces, though often used by police and special forces nowdays. It's going to be capable of automatic fire, and isn't something you want civilians to have...though you can get civilian semi-automatic versions of teh P90 in the US.

 

[Bvenged]

I can't tell you how your country should be, but I can give my opinion on how I think shotguns and assault rifles are not PDWs.

How can you call a full automatic assault rifle "Personal Defence"? what the fuck are you defending against? If someone pointed a pistol at me, I'd be shitting equal amounts of bricks if it were an assault rifle instead. Assault rifles are precisely that. ASSAULT. You ASSAULT with them. How is ASSAULT retailed as DEFENCE in your country? Who the hell do you personally need to ASSAULT to DEFEND your life?

Possibly for that reason, automatic weapons haven't been registered since 1986 (meaning there have been no new ones since that time), and were tightly controlled before that. IIRC, no civilian has ever murdered anyone with a legally obtained automatic weapon in the US.

Of course, every time a semi-automatic rifle based on a military assault rifle is used in a crime in the US, it gets called an assault rifle, but they aren't.

Shotguns are widely seen as being good choices for defense weapons, though.

Oh, and Personal Defence Weapons (PDWs)? That is a military weapon designed for rear-echelon forces, though often used by police and special forces nowdays. It's going to be capable of automatic fire, and isn't something you want civilians to have...though you can get civilian semi-automatic versions of teh P90 in the US.

Well I took it that PDWs were pistols, because they're designed for personal defence, because an article I read on the new UK order of Glock's to replace the Browning's described them as defence if the primary gun fails. Alright, my mistake on the terminologies, but it doesn't change my verdict. US citizens are allowed to legally carry weaponry that far surpasses teh needs. I might have gotten the fully-auto wrong, but that raises the question: "How is a semi-automatic rifle personal defence?"

Also, when I picture the use of a shotgun in my mind, I see it sat behind a jewellers counter or in the office of a bank, to be used in-case-of-emergency (IE armed robbers). I cannot imagine its use within a household, or out on the street. can you take semi-auto's and shotguns on the street in the US as you can pistols? Are they means for home defence? To me, that is excessive. IF your life is ever threatened, it will only ever be by an insane individual or an armed group of crooks. What are the likelihoods of that, and when it comes to defence, what can semi-auto's and shotguns do that a slow-firing pistol can't?

 

[Talaris]

And here I was as an outsider actually interested to see what the views of American users here would average to. Well, I suppose it was my mistake to think I can find an accurate poll on the internet, even worse The Escapist of all places.

I'll go sit in a corner to learn my lesson...

 

[Thaluikhain]

I might have gotten the fully-auto wrong, but that raises the question: "How is a semi-automatic rifle personal defence?"

Well, good for shooting people. In that they are suitable for self defence. You just have to weigh that against the problems with everyone being armed with semi-automatic rifles. Which isn't something that individual gun buyers are going to do, of course. What's best for them personally is what's best for them. If it's having a negative effect on society, that only means they need it more.

Also, when I picture the use of a shotgun in my mind, I see it sat behind a jewellers counter or in the office of a bank, to be used in-case-of-emergency (IE armed robbers). I cannot imagine its use within a household, or out on the street. can you take semi-auto's and shotguns on the street in the US as you can pistols? Are they means for home defence? To me, that is excessive. IF your life is ever threatened, it will only ever be by an insane individual or an armed group of crooks. What are the likelihoods of that, and when it comes to defence, what can semi-auto's and shotguns do that a slow-firing pistol can't?

Depends on the state, in some you can wander around with AR-15s and MP5s (civilian variant) in public as much as you want. The police are going to ask you a few questions, but they can't actually stop you. A pair of people decided to wander round Portland (had a shooting about a month ago) for a bit with their AR-15s, in order that people would come talk to them about guns and gun control. The locals panicked and called the police. Of course.

Shotguns (usually) have the advantage of being mechanically simple and easy to use. You can also load them with a variety of ammunition, though anything that stops a human is going to run the risk of penetrating walls and stopping some other human you didn't know was there. Supposedly, pumping a shotgun makes a big scary noise that is good for deterring attackers, though how effective that is going to be is unclear.

Why say that pistols are slow-firing? Semi-automatic pistol, semi-automatic rifle or shotgun. One trigger pull is one firing.

Oh, as an aside, it's not insane individuals you need to worry about. They get blamed for crimes a lot, but you are much more likely to get killed by someone you know that some random mentally ill person, and they are more likely to be the victims of crime than the perpetrator.

...

EDIT: In regards to the AR-15 in particular, it is popular, meaning there's a big market and lots of suppliers (doesn't hurt that it's out of copyright). Easy to get hold of one, and get spares and extra features.

One of those extar features is a new upper receiver, you can easily replace the upper with any number of others (again, helps that there is a big market). So an AR-15 can be made to shoot any calibre you want fairly easily. Some people even swap the upper for a crossbow for some reason.

That makes it desirable for people when choosing a firearm.

 

[lechat]

And here I was as an outsider actually interested to see what the views of American users here would average to. Well, I suppose it was my mistake to think I can find an accurate poll on the internet, even worse The Escapist of all places.

I'll go sit in a corner to learn my lesson...

yup it's what i wanted but it seems the worlds desire to disarm america got in the way

 

[Bvenged]

snip

Why say that pistols are slow-firing? Semi-automatic pistol, semi-automatic rifle or shotgun. One trigger pull is one firing.

I mention that because generally pistols are associated as - one pull of the trigger gives one fired round - and you will only end up firing a handful of rounds before the clip is expired. Shotguns and rifles are military-grade, in my eyes, because you intend to kill if you're pulling the trigger, and the power behind such weaponry excess that of a pistol. You could cause collateral damage even if you hit your target. That is opposed to pistols used to deter your threat from turning hostile to you.

Oh, as an aside, it's not insane individuals you need to worry about. They get blamed for crimes a lot, but you are much more likely to get killed by someone you know that some random mentally ill person, and they are more likely to be the victims of crime than the perpetrator.

I wasn't referring to insane individuals as criminals, more like the random-murder-spree kind that happens far more often than it should in the US. Shouldn't there be regular health checks on owners of high-caliber weaponry?

In this country, or even any other European country, I haven't thought twice about going out around the big cities for the day with nothing but my wallet and keys. If anyone gives me trouble, at worst it's a knife and there's enough police around to handle the situation anyway. I have lived on and around military bases for most of my life, and I've never seen a gun that wasn't in a shooting range, or on a police officer at an airport.

For some reason I feel like I wouldn't be safe in the US without a gun, because every sod has one (it seems). What is everyone defending against? Every other person wielding a gun they own for defence. A gun is a tool for killing, and nothing more. It makes the job of killing far easier and less personal than a knife, bat or your bare hands, which is why they don't have a place in civilian lives unless you live in a hostile country where you could be shot at any given moment out in public, such as Mexico. That's what I'm getting at; the weaponry US citizens are allowed to carry far surpasses their needs, and are far too easy to obtain.

I'm not crying for them to be outlawed, but bloody hell - if any old nutter or ill-intention person can obtain one with the capability of slaughtering numerous people, then some rules and/or regulations need to be put in place the minimise the chance of it happening again. It's not even that. If anyone can get a gun, and then chose a path of ill-intentions or then has a mental breakdown, how do you ensure they are disarmed by that point? some well-established laws could work in favour of that, whilst every citizen who feels they need to be protected by a firearm, is granted that protection.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I mention that because generally pistols are associated as - one pull of the trigger gives one fired round - and you will only end up firing a handful of rounds before the clip is expired. Shotguns and rifles are military-grade, in my eyes, because you intend to kill if you're pulling the trigger, and the power behind such weaponry excess that of a pistol. You could cause collateral damage even if you hit your target. That is opposed to pistols used to deter your threat from turning hostile to you.

Ah, if you are worried about over-penetration, fair enough.

It's not true that a pistol only fires a handful of times, though. If it can use a detachable magazine, then there's not much to limit how big the magazine is. A restriction on the capacity of pistols means banning any that use detachable magazines.

Also, if you fire any weapon at a person, you are trying to kill them. Unless you are firing a taser, or shotgun loaded with rocksalt or baton rounds, in which case you are generally hoping they won't die, but no guarantees.

I wasn't referring to insane individuals as criminals, more like the random-murder-spree kind that happens far more often than it should in the US. Shouldn't there be regular health checks on owners of high-caliber weaponry?

Although shooting sprees are well publicised, they are comparatively rare in the scheme of things. Many more people get killed in ones or twos that don't make the news.

Do you mean "high-calibre" as in "large calibre", or "techincally sophisticated", mind?

For some reason I feel like I wouldn't be safe in the US without a gun, because every sod has one (it seems). What is everyone defending against? Every other person wielding a gun they own for defence.

You seem to have answered your own question there. If everyone else is armed, then you'd better be yourself. Hell, any number of armed people start talking about starting a civil war in the US at any excuse, I don't blame people for being scared.