Poll: An Attempt to Exonerate Hip Hop
- Thread starter Logiclul
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Hate to burst your bubble but Dizzy Rascal is not Underground Rap, he was when he was doing his Boy in Da Corner and Showbiz stuff which is actually pretty good. But these days he is the most commercial thing going and his new stuff is absolute dribble.Logiclul said:
When I saw the classic hip hop part I was disapointed that you din't mean Hip hop with a classic music insperation... So here is a song with Rapsody and Norwegian classical singer Sissel Kyrkjebø: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-blfPCOeLQ0
Btw listen to some of the stuff from Mastah Artisan: check out the songs Cut Down and Oh Really?, especially the song Oh Really? if you are tired of all the rappers talking about money, pimpin' and hoes.
...and here is another song rom a Scandinavian hip hop group that no one have heard about:
Multicyde - Not for the dough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ShwTIhGyw
Btw listen to some of the stuff from Mastah Artisan: check out the songs Cut Down and Oh Really?, especially the song Oh Really? if you are tired of all the rappers talking about money, pimpin' and hoes.
...and here is another song rom a Scandinavian hip hop group that no one have heard about:
Multicyde - Not for the dough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ShwTIhGyw
The main reason I don't care a great deal for hip-hop et al is that all of the people I personally know who enjoy it are, quite frankly, moronic and antisocial, who act like asking them to please use headphones on the bus is a mortal affront to them, which requires eight stabbings to overcome.
Ok the flaw with rap as a musical style is that it is based on heavy repetition both lyrically and musically. You occasionally get a group like say Die Antwoord that has rap influences that consistently incorporate multiple movements into a song, but the occasions of it occuring are too few and far between.
Basically it stays with a consistent beat hook for the body of a song and deviates for a chorus and thats it. Then the next problem is that when one rap artist finds a good beat hook, it gets copied by other artists. If its popular enough it becomes its own subgenre such as say... New Orleans bounce.
Then there is the commonality of lyrical themes that get repeated endlessly. How many tens of thousands of rap songs have been written on the subject of money, bitches, materialism or weed.
So the heavy emphasis on copying, emulation and repetition is why a lot of people view rap as being devoid of musical merit.
With that said, when you see artists who break from those molds, it has the potential to be every bit as enjoyable as any other form of music, but just like any form of music you usually have to look very far away from the mainstream to see that quality.
T
Basically it stays with a consistent beat hook for the body of a song and deviates for a chorus and thats it. Then the next problem is that when one rap artist finds a good beat hook, it gets copied by other artists. If its popular enough it becomes its own subgenre such as say... New Orleans bounce.
While this certainly wasnt the first example, its one of the older ones.
Then 3 years and dozens of emulations later
Then 3 years and dozens of emulations later
Then there is the commonality of lyrical themes that get repeated endlessly. How many tens of thousands of rap songs have been written on the subject of money, bitches, materialism or weed.
So the heavy emphasis on copying, emulation and repetition is why a lot of people view rap as being devoid of musical merit.
With that said, when you see artists who break from those molds, it has the potential to be every bit as enjoyable as any other form of music, but just like any form of music you usually have to look very far away from the mainstream to see that quality.
T
Long time ago, I met this guy who didn't consider your opinion of the band "Rush" to be valid until you'd heard ten of their songs. The same guy said that rap "weren't music" and that every single rap song was about "getting bitches and hos". He also said something to the effect of music requiring instruments, which he argued didn't cover electronically created music. Because a computer is not an instrument, I guess.Vault101 said:
Also this. People who are willing to discount an entire genre of music without having any real knowledge of what they're discounting are clearly not worth the effort it takes to explain why this is a bad thing to do.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Thanks. I've always wanted to better understand the genre. I can't look into it right now, but I'll check everything after work today.Logiclul said:
You can't prove hip hop is good. It's music. It's pretty much the most subjective thing there is. I have a lot more respect for the genre than I used to (not because of this thread, just generally more exposure over the years), but I don't think I'll ever actually enjoy it seriously. It's just not what I enjoy in music.
Also I don't think Dizzie Rascal really qualifies as underground. He's pretty big in the UK.
Also I don't think Dizzie Rascal really qualifies as underground. He's pretty big in the UK.
Just wanted to let you know that this link goes to Wiz Khalifa, unless they are the same person or something, I don't know a lot about hip-hop/rap.Logiclul said:
OT: I've never been that into hip-hop, but from perusing songs on youtube, I kinda like B.o.B. And yes hip-hop has plenty of good artists just like every genre, I don't like most of the country music I've heard but I don't tell people that all county music is crap.
In what way is Dizzee Rascal underground? Fucking EVERYONE listens to Dizzee...
You want underground? Check THIS shit out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eELH0ivexKA
You want underground? Check THIS shit out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eELH0ivexKA
My god, the number of times I've gone on to my friends about how instrumental Beastie Boys were in popularising hip-hop...Nouw said:
I think thats the Idea...not proving its "good" so much as proving "your veiw on rap is a little skewed is you think its all x" which generally causes people to at least accept/understand it a little better rather that write it all off as crapScrustle said:
As with any other genre or period of music, the really good stuff gets drowned out in a sea of mediocrity (and shit). There's good rock, there's bad rock. Good metal, bad metal. Good reggae, bad reggae. Good jazz, bad jazz. Good opera, bad opera. Etc, in whatever period of music you find it in.
Since hip-hop is huge right now it just happens to be the style getting the most attention.
Towards that end I present:
Atmos's Bullshit Theory #88:
"The longer a genre/style of anything remains popular, the more it turns into a matter of 'quantity over quality', where lots of mediocre/bad gets made to cash in on the trend."
Hip-hop doesn't need to be exonerated any more than rock and roll or metal did (and yes, once upon a time, both of those were considered every bit as avant garde and obnoxious as modern hip-hop and pop music); eventually, the public consciousness will shift away from hip-hop or at least, particular flavors within hip-hop, and everyone will start hating on whatever else takes its place and becomes overplayed...and Justin Bieber.
Since hip-hop is huge right now it just happens to be the style getting the most attention.
Towards that end I present:
Atmos's Bullshit Theory #88:
"The longer a genre/style of anything remains popular, the more it turns into a matter of 'quantity over quality', where lots of mediocre/bad gets made to cash in on the trend."
Hip-hop doesn't need to be exonerated any more than rock and roll or metal did (and yes, once upon a time, both of those were considered every bit as avant garde and obnoxious as modern hip-hop and pop music); eventually, the public consciousness will shift away from hip-hop or at least, particular flavors within hip-hop, and everyone will start hating on whatever else takes its place and becomes overplayed...and Justin Bieber.
I really really hate when people are saying: "Well, Hip Hop or rap whatever doesn't really require talent...all they do is talk about hoes and money and BLAH BLAH BLAH". I listen to all kind of music and i prefer my rap to be more underground (Im not saying that mainstream rap is always shit...im not a fuckin' hipster or anything) but i feel like, today, they produce the best beat and the best lyrics. They have to put TWICE the work in order to be noticed.
I find it sad that today rap music is considered Chris Brown or Kanye West (im not saying that he is untalented...it's just that he is such a fuckin' self-centered asshole that i tink it's sad that he is kind of the new "thing" in rap) and that other mainstream rap is all about hoes and money but im pretty sure that if the lyrics of all mainstream rappers would be about their tough life i think people would be like "yeah, we understand your life was tough but nobody gives a shit about it !" PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. It's always too cold or too hot.
Heres a list of great rappers (or producers) that maybe you don't know about:
-Necro
-Circle of Tyrants
-Supreme NTM
-Cunninlynguists (especially them, their lyrics are good and the production and quality of their beats is just unbelivable) suggestion: Lynguistics, Valley of death, Mic like a memory, Remember Me, War, Hellfire.
-The Fugees (they were big in the 90's but i think they are not as known today)
-Statik Selektah
-Jedi Mind Tricks
-Nujabes
-DJ Shadow
-Dilated People
-IAM
-MF Doom
-Madvillain (MF DOOM/Madlib co-production)
and many many many many more...
captcha: piping hot...could this be the name of a new radio hit ?
I find it sad that today rap music is considered Chris Brown or Kanye West (im not saying that he is untalented...it's just that he is such a fuckin' self-centered asshole that i tink it's sad that he is kind of the new "thing" in rap) and that other mainstream rap is all about hoes and money but im pretty sure that if the lyrics of all mainstream rappers would be about their tough life i think people would be like "yeah, we understand your life was tough but nobody gives a shit about it !" PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. It's always too cold or too hot.
Heres a list of great rappers (or producers) that maybe you don't know about:
-Necro
-Circle of Tyrants
-Supreme NTM
-Cunninlynguists (especially them, their lyrics are good and the production and quality of their beats is just unbelivable) suggestion: Lynguistics, Valley of death, Mic like a memory, Remember Me, War, Hellfire.
-The Fugees (they were big in the 90's but i think they are not as known today)
-Statik Selektah
-Jedi Mind Tricks
-Nujabes
-DJ Shadow
-Dilated People
-IAM
-MF Doom
-Madvillain (MF DOOM/Madlib co-production)
and many many many many more...
captcha: piping hot...could this be the name of a new radio hit ?
I might be a massive rock and metal fan, but I can still respect rap. I don't like most of it (the only major rapper I can listen to without getting bored is Eminem), but I can still respect the work, skill, and creativity that goes into the best of the stuff. Now, if you will excuse me, imma go back to listening to Testament...
What?! You talk of Hip Hop and you do not mention Aesop Rock...
... Sage Francis...
... or Atmosphere?!?
...
Okay, so maybe they ain't that important to Hip Hop or the underground scene, but damn it! These people deserve more attention! <_<
OT: This is a pretty good list, OP. I think some of the people's problem with Hip Hop is that they usually hear the mainstream stuff [small](totally not a hipster, I promise <_<)[/small], and they immediately think "if that's popular, then that's all that Rap and Hip Hop has to offer." That's why I have a certain appreciation for underground artists.
However, I have a certain problem with Hip Hop, despite my willingness to defend it: A rapper's best friend is the beat. I find that if the beat or the production of a rapper's music is crap, then I won't think too highly of it. Take Aesop Rock, for example: I found that I didn't like some of his stuff due to the production. However, when I heard most of the songs done with collaboration with Blockhead [small](whom you should all look up, by the way)[/small], they were utterly fantastic. It's hard for a rapper to keep the song up by him or herself with out a good beat or production.
But yeah, good list.
Also...I love you I MEAN!!! Uh... <_<
Well, actually, yeah, I love you.
Okay, so maybe they ain't that important to Hip Hop or the underground scene, but damn it! These people deserve more attention! <_<
OT: This is a pretty good list, OP. I think some of the people's problem with Hip Hop is that they usually hear the mainstream stuff [small](totally not a hipster, I promise <_<)[/small], and they immediately think "if that's popular, then that's all that Rap and Hip Hop has to offer." That's why I have a certain appreciation for underground artists.
However, I have a certain problem with Hip Hop, despite my willingness to defend it: A rapper's best friend is the beat. I find that if the beat or the production of a rapper's music is crap, then I won't think too highly of it. Take Aesop Rock, for example: I found that I didn't like some of his stuff due to the production. However, when I heard most of the songs done with collaboration with Blockhead [small](whom you should all look up, by the way)[/small], they were utterly fantastic. It's hard for a rapper to keep the song up by him or herself with out a good beat or production.
But yeah, good list.
Also...
The Floating Nose said:
Well, actually, yeah, I love you.
Everything gets something different from music and the otherwise very useful human skill of sorting and categorizing things tends to get in the way when it comes to art. Someone liking or disliking a certain example of a wider genre doesn't really mean much.
This is a form of metal music:
This is also a form of metal music:
This is a form of metal music:
This is also a form of metal music: