Poll: Anti-semitism...
- Thread starter JohnJacobJingle
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No, it isn't. I have relatives there that absolutely hate the way the government is set up there, politics in Israel is all a big jumbled mess. At least it has a mostly stable government, though, unlike it's neighbors.
[sup]please don't hurt me! Though I'd find that depressingly ironic if you did...[/sup]
Now lock this thread up before it turns into another "Israel vs. Palestine" crap argument.
[sup]please don't hurt me! Though I'd find that depressingly ironic if you did...[/sup]
Now lock this thread up before it turns into another "Israel vs. Palestine" crap argument.
A)yes the UN is biasedSulu said:
it has to be, its a body composed of representetives of varius nations
and since there are far more third world nations and arab nations then westren ones, the vote is ALWAYS anti isreali by default
B)the UN did not create israel, the UN passed a resolution for a partiation, which was rejected by the arab world as a whole
once rejected, the resloution held no authority at all, and had the isreali's not won the 1948 war they would not have been a state at all and the UN would not have lifted a finger
C)the UN inspector's mere existence in such a conflict is by default proof of bias
was there such an inspection anywhere else ?
was there one in afganistan or iraq (where far more people died) ?
incidently, the guy who used to COMMAND the british forces in afganistan testified that the israeli army showed more care for protecting innocent people in gaza then any army in the history of warfare
but no body cared
D)the report is based on an investigaion of the events in gaza, without ANY considerations of the circomnstances that led to it (thats the mandate of the investigation)
the team was composed of members who PUBLICLY STATED that they believed israel commited war crimes BEFORE STARTING to investigate
it took 12 days of on the ground investigation to compose (less the the actual WAR)
based entirely on palestinian accounts
and even the guy who WROTE the report (goldstone) has already admited IN AN INTERVIEW, that there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the israeli army commited ANY war crimes and its all based on hear say
but the fact that NONE of that has been pointed out in international media, is why i claim this is based on antisemitism
Absolutely not. There are some horrible governments out there, but that doesn't make their people bad. I'm pretty sure there are some really good people in North Korea and such.
if you want to REALLY know if your hate if israel is based on anti-semitisem
there is a simple litmus test to find out
but it requires one to be honest with themselves, and few are truely willing to take such a test while being honest
the test i simple
i will make two statements
one is true, one is false
the test is NOT i repeat NOT to try and guess which is true and which is false
the test is to ADMIT, truthfully and honestly
which one of the statements YOU personally find it easier to believe
1)the israeli army steals Palestinian organs and sells them
2)the israeli army did more to protect the lives of innocent civilians in gaza, then any other army in the history of warfare
AGAIN
the test is NOT to try and guess which one is the truth
the test is to say which one you find it easier to believe
there is a simple litmus test to find out
but it requires one to be honest with themselves, and few are truely willing to take such a test while being honest
the test i simple
i will make two statements
one is true, one is false
the test is NOT i repeat NOT to try and guess which is true and which is false
the test is to ADMIT, truthfully and honestly
which one of the statements YOU personally find it easier to believe
1)the israeli army steals Palestinian organs and sells them
2)the israeli army did more to protect the lives of innocent civilians in gaza, then any other army in the history of warfare
AGAIN
the test is NOT to try and guess which one is the truth
the test is to say which one you find it easier to believe
As a ex-political commenter I have often said more then I should concerning how fucked up the Israel government actually is. More then once I have been labelled as anti-Semitic because of it. After all it is the number one weapon in the pro-Israel handbook: Call your critics anti-Semitic.
I wish I could say I was being sarcastic here but it is true, there is a handbook floating around which tells pro-Israel political commentator all the 'dirty tricks' they need to use to get a topic locked or derailed. The validity of the point being made: Irrelevant. The whole purpose of this book, and the sort of commentator whom use it, is to stop people from looking at facts that don't make Israel out to be the good guy.
Even been called a holocaust denier once. All cause I dare to point out how it wasn't just the Jewish people who where targeted by the Nazi government. *Gasp* How dare I suggest that millions of non-Jews who where tortured and murdered by the Nazi's be considered part of the holocaust! To make matters worse, I just could not stop myself, I had to point out that the whole holocaust has been turned into nothing more then a political tool. An escape goat to be pulled out whenever Israel is caught screwing up: 'were the good guys, look at the holocaust.'
Again wish I could say I was kidding about the holocaust but throughout history Israel has used it's existence as both an excuse and club to hit critics. If your genocide actions are challenged then state your trying to prevent another holocaust. If that doesn't work then state your critic would of thrown Jews into the incinerator, he is that open for wanting another holocaust.
Oh, and PS: The most ironic part of this is the Palestine people are... Semitic! Got to love being called anti-Semitic for speaking out of the rights of Semitics.
I wish I could say I was being sarcastic here but it is true, there is a handbook floating around which tells pro-Israel political commentator all the 'dirty tricks' they need to use to get a topic locked or derailed. The validity of the point being made: Irrelevant. The whole purpose of this book, and the sort of commentator whom use it, is to stop people from looking at facts that don't make Israel out to be the good guy.
Even been called a holocaust denier once. All cause I dare to point out how it wasn't just the Jewish people who where targeted by the Nazi government. *Gasp* How dare I suggest that millions of non-Jews who where tortured and murdered by the Nazi's be considered part of the holocaust! To make matters worse, I just could not stop myself, I had to point out that the whole holocaust has been turned into nothing more then a political tool. An escape goat to be pulled out whenever Israel is caught screwing up: 'were the good guys, look at the holocaust.'
Again wish I could say I was kidding about the holocaust but throughout history Israel has used it's existence as both an excuse and club to hit critics. If your genocide actions are challenged then state your trying to prevent another holocaust. If that doesn't work then state your critic would of thrown Jews into the incinerator, he is that open for wanting another holocaust.
Oh, and PS: The most ironic part of this is the Palestine people are... Semitic! Got to love being called anti-Semitic for speaking out of the rights of Semitics.
Sadly it wouldn't. Even in wars we can blame on religion the religion part has been nothing more then a sort of moral boost. The whole 'it is alright to kill them, god said so, and we will be victorious because of him' angle. I can't say this for every religious war of course but I feel justified in saying I feel the vast majority of even the 'religious wars' where caused for the real reason all wars are started: Control over land and resources (including people). I don't mean that in a religious sense either, it wasn't control of their souls they where after but control of their farms, mines and factories.The Hairminator said:
After all It isn't a real war if no one is profiting off it.
A quick google search showed that the secular US government has been in hundreds of 'military actions' around the world. None of these where caused because the pope in Rome demanded a war. None of these where caused because some temple scripted doping napalm on people half way around the world was right. None of these wars had anything to do with religion, they where all about expanding of territory and the control of resources.
Much like the majority of wars in history, religion is never more then an excuse while the acquisition of land and resources has always been the goal. These wars would of started anyway without religion, the excuse just would of been different. Even if we all went Atheistic right now, this very moment, we would probably still wake up tomorrow to find some country out there has just invaded it's neighbour.
Added: Wiki had a list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations
Israel is accused of war crimes, and crimes against international law because they comit them at a striking frequency. Firstly in warfare there will always be soldiers within the army that commit excesses; there are black sheep in every flock. It is first and formost the duty of the country who these soldiers are fighting for to deal with these criminals, Israel never does so. It always claims that no Israeli soldier has ever commited any war crimes and refuses to use any trials. To fail to do this is in itself a war crime.bladeofdarkness said:
The reason that there are so many security council resolutions against Israel is that the Arabic countries are spamming the security council with them. While hardly a constructive use of the SCs time(as the US always vetoes them) yet it has nothing to do with the UN being anti-Semitic (if nations couldn't bring issues to the UN, the UN wouldn't function at all).
Most security council resolutions against Israel that I have seen usually fail on a vote 14-1, or 13-1-1, with 14 or 13 votes in favour and a US veto(with Britain sometimes abstaining. sometimes not)(a quick google search shows here http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html, how the US is always the sole country voting against anti-israeli resolutions, with the rest of the world either abstaining or in favour). It is not the Arab countries, or even the third world countries that are against Israel, its the entire world except the US. The reason for this is that on the whole Israels transgressions are so blatant that they are impossible to defend without ignoring international law.bladeofdarkness said:
So by the same logic the fact that there was IAEA inspectors both in Iran and Iraq shows that the UN is biased against Islam?bladeofdarkness said:
Now I would be first to agree that there should be inspectors in Afghanistan and Iraq as well, but so far the US and UK have been able to keep them out. It is standard procedure that allegations of war crimes should be investigated(another example is the extensive investigating and subsequent trying of war crimes[along with crimes against hhumanity and genocide] that the UN conducted after the Yugoslavian wars)
BTW can you show me a link from that British general who said that(I am not doubting you, but I would like to see if he had any special knowledge of the situation in Gaza or was just stating his opinion without having done any research[being commander in afghanistan doesn't really tell you what happened in gaza])
International law of war exists on two principles, jus in bellum and jus ad bello(justice in war and justice to war). These principles are separate and both need to be upheld. In as that the causes of the war and the justness of them(jus ad bellum) have no bearing of the judgment of war crimes(jus in bellum). Just because you had a cause for war, doesn't give you the right to break the laws of war when fighting(I would also argue that Israel failed on jus ad bellum, but i suspect this post will get long enougth without more arguements)bladeofdarkness said:
Firstly it is difficult to dispute that no war crimes were commited by Israeli soldiers in Gaza, with the considerable civilian toll, and countless allegations made by numerous different sources of abuse by Israelis. While I agree that it was unwise to publicly go out and state their opinion before the case, it is safe to assume that the people in question had kept abreast of the going ons in gaza before they did there investigation, hence could already make a quite substantiated case for what crimes had been committed.bladeofdarkness said:
On that it was based entirely on Palestinian accounts-who else was there to ask?, all Israelis had already been evacuated, the Israeli army did not let in any journalists, and are notoriously bad at cooperating with UN investigations, leaving the Palestinians to be the only available sources of evidence.
On Goldstones quote, I must ask you to show a link to the interview as I have not heard it, and suspect that your summary of it is slightly one sided.
I believe that disliking a certain government is not the same as disliking its citizens. For instance I've said many times that I love the citizens of the United States. Most of the Americans that I have met (outside of Detroit) have been friendly and courteous towards me even before they found out I was a Canadian. I have also said many times that in my experiences the average American is nicer and more polite than the average Canadian. However, with all that being said, I still hate the fuckwits who run their nation. Especially in the last couple of years the American government has enjoyed butting heads with my government and because Canada is America's ***** our government tends to give in (see: most of the water disputes, the recent lumber dispute, the mad cow disease scare...).