Poll: Anti-Traditional Bigotry and Moviebob

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RelexCryo

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Oct 21, 2008
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Moviebob, several times, has tried to verbally attack traditionalists, and traditional lifestyles, such as hunting. He has, several times, tried to stand up for untraditional lifestyles. He has acted as if attacks against traditionalism are perfectly reasonable, and attacks against untraditionalists are not reasonable. That simply is not equal.

To my knowledge, when someone points out the flaws of anti-traditionalists, such as pointing out that Gloria Steinem lied when she claimed that 3/4 of all women are raped by the age of 20, or how Andrea Dworkin said that the very act of a man putting his penis in a woman is a crime against women http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Dworkin Or Julie Bindel's writing's of how she hates men, he acts as if they are attacking feminism as a whole. As if attacks against unreasonable, bigoted feminists, somehow constitute an attack against feminists in general or women's suffrage. In reality, a criticism of anti-traditionalists is not necessarily a criticism of untraditionalists.

At the same time, he either acts as if attacks against traditionalists are only perfectly reasonable attacks against specific members of traditionalist society, which is inconsistent, or, worse, he acts as if anti-traditionalist bigotry is perfectly acceptable.

As far as I can tell, he simply does not treat traditionalists and anti-traditionalists equally. He seems to be an anti-traditional person, rather than a truly open minded person who stands up for diversity. I apologize if that is inaccurate, but to my knowledge he still has not apologized for his earlier remarks about hunters. He just seems to be an anti-traditional bigot to me.




The worse part, however, is that this just seems to be part of an overall trend within the game journalism community. Let us take a look at Duke Nukem for example: Several people have claimed he is mysogynistic. Let me ask you this: if he was gay, and the twins/sex symbols he hung out with were men, would you feel differently? Would you still feel his actions were wrong? And if the answer is no, then that means you don't find the core nature of his actions wrong- you just find it wrong that heterosexuals do it.

Next, let's take a look at Lara Croft and Tifa Lockheart. Again, if a videogame was made with strong, intelligent, independent, attractive men with unrealistically big penises, specifically for gay gamers, would you say that is evil, sexist or morally wrong? And if the answer is no, they why does a game with strong, intelligent, independent, attractive women with unrealistically big boobs bother you?

The problem with the argument "Because women have been oppressed for millenia" is that it attempts to solve oppression by treating people differently rather than treating them the same. You are essentially attempting to solve mysogyny by either outlawing heterosexuality or at least demanding that heterosexuality be heavily subdued. Monosexuality- both heterosexuality and homosexuality- are based on gender specific traits. If a man only cares about gender neutral traits, such as how intelligent, strong, or tough someone is, then he is Bisexual, not homosexual or heterosexual. Perceiving the very act of being attracted to gender specific traits, such as boobs, as mysogynistic, is bigoted against heterosexual men.

Lastly, I feel it's important to remember that you should just treat everyone the same- and as such, bigoty against heterosexual men and traditionalists in general should be given equal importance to bigotry against untraditional lifestyles, and treated with an equal amount of disdain.
 

Mr.Pandah

Pandah Extremist
Jul 20, 2008
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That is quite a bit of tradition you have there.

I'm unsure as to where this exactly came from. I do not watch Moviebob's other series. I only watch Escape to the Movies. With that, I feel as if I'm a bit out of the loop here with what you're speaking about.

However, I will lend whatever thoughts I have to this proposed situation.

On both sides of the fence, you will have people who claim that someone is being entirely hypocritical in their actions. Moviebob is a person, just like any other, and has his right to be as bigoted and "anti-traditional" as he wants to be. Much like you have the right to bash him for it. He just happens to have a bigger soapbox then you do.

Just taking the extremes of each side isn't going to turn this into any sort of winning argument either. Having dudes with huge cocks running around doesn't make a game "Gay-friendly." We already have plenty of strong, intelligent, independent, and attractive men as it is so that point just seems...moot.

And to be completely honest, when it comes right down to it on the point of big boobs and stuff like that, it's all about bringing in the money.

Yeah...
 

Booze Zombie

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Dec 8, 2007
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You see, the problem I have with both sides of this is that traditionalist and anti-traditionalists both look at the same world as everyone else, but they've come up with two different reasons and rule-sets for why men do this and women do that and this and that, bla, bla, bla.

In the end it all comes off as whining and being very pretentious, in the sense that they've blown something very minor out of proportion in their heads and turned it into "a movement", a grand social fight for or against something.

To be honest, it almost seems like people are so bored they've got to invent a more exciting world, some idea that everyone else has grand schemes and that everything has a deeper meaning.

An example: I buy strawberry ice-cream, the traditionalist argues that a man should not eat something pink for that is a woman's colour, the anti-traditionalist argues that I should for it's breaking gender-norms and I say "shut the Hell up, I'm just eating an ice-cream and I like that flavour".
 

Margrave Rinstock

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Jul 17, 2009
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In my mind, it is rather unfair to expect such a degree impartiality from Moviebob or anyone. The man has opinions, and among those opinions are anti-traditionalist ones. It is only natural for him to tolerate bigots that share many of his opinions more than Bigots that don't. So yes, while I think that his movies show a definite anti-traditionalism, I find it acceptable because he never claimed impartiality. The Big Picture is an opinion show, and thus has no need to be "equal" in any way.
 

Sightless Wisdom

Resident Cynic
Jul 24, 2009
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You know, at this particular moment it appears to me that you simply care too much about the opinions of an internet show host. So MovieBob is a bigot(I don't think he is but regardless...), what does it matter? You preach treating everyone the same, does that not apply to those who are offensive to others? You chose a specific argument, and you didn't hold it up very well, nor did you give any of us a reason to care about your argument.

To condense the rant I sense coming on I shall say this: People have opinions, lots of them. If you can't deal with those opinions whether that means ignoring them or incorporating them into your own thoughts, you are going to struggle... with everything. I suggest you don't over-think things, and give more subjectivity to the thoughts of others.
 

draygoncore

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Sep 9, 2009
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I see a little bit of what you are talking about but I have to agree that his opinions about traditionalism or anti-traditionalism don't really affect me (or most of his viewers) unless I allow it to. He is a commentator and he is going to comment. If you disagree, present an argument or counter one of his arguments.

Or ignore it completely.

Now one thing that I greatly dislike about Moviebob's style is that he places political commentary when no commentary is needed. This is rather prevalent in his movie reviews. I would prefer that he trim it back and reserve the politics for where it is deserved, such as politically charged films or for his second show. I have no power to change it, except to ask him and see if he accepts my point.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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RelexCryo said:
Margrave Rinstock said:
In my mind, it is rather unfair to expect such a degree impartiality from Moviebob or anyone. The man has opinions, and among those opinions are anti-traditionalist ones. It is only natural for him to tolerate bigots that share many of his opinions more than Bigots that don't. So yes, while I think that his movies show a definite anti-traditionalism, I find it acceptable because he never claimed impartiality. The Big Picture is an opinion show, and thus has no need to be "equal" in any way.
This is true. His opinions on tradition and whatnot weren't too obvious when he was just doing his movie reviews, and they have remained the same for the most part. All of those viewpoints took shape in The Big Picture, which as he explained was basically The Escapist giving him a soapbox to rattle on about whatever he wants to.

I think it's expecting a bit much to say Moviebob should always be impartial and always point out the differences between what is a straight fact and what is his opinion. I mean, what are we, a bunch of mindless lemmings? It is up to us as the viewers to educate ourselves, and know when we're being given facts and when we're being given opinions. Then it is up to us whether we take those opinions at face value and move on, or process and challenge them by doing our own research and forming our own opinions.

The vast majority of media we consume today is compounded with opinions. It is more important than ever to question what you hear and seek answers for yourself rather than be spoonfed by others. Bob knows that and expects us to know that too, so he doesn't insult our intelligence by pandering to the "politically correct" among us who think that every single argument has to be perfectly evenly presented and framed after a Care Bears-like template where everything is even and happy and sunny. By doing some research, you can find both sides of a story. And Bob knows that--he's presenting HIS side of it. The side only he can reveal. The side we have no information on.

And in the end, these are opinions. The world is full of them. The only difference between your opinions and Bob's are that Bob's opinions earn him paychecks.
 

loc978

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Sep 18, 2010
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There are extremists on both sides of this argument, and the lot of 'em need to stop being so thin-skinned. Not every disagreement with your values are an attack against those values.

...and I love that the subject of Duke Nukem's misogyny came up. He's supposed to be misogynistic, he's a parody character for chrissakes! Anyone offended by him needs a stick removed from their third point of contact.
 

Fr]anc[is

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May 13, 2010
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I think you're thinking way too hard here. You're supposed to hope he rants (sorry Bob, I know you get mad but it's entertaining) or at least chews up something stupid. He's not trying to be unbiased. He has his opinions, some of which I disagree with, but he seems like an ok guy to me. I know it means next to nothing but what the hell, I don't get a bigot vibe from him, he's just being himself

Also a gay Duke would still be freaking epic. As long as he was still Duke, not a walking gay cliche, or that weasely... rat... thing from Will and Grace