Poll: Are adaptations inherently problematic?(Read OP)

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Sigmund Av Volsung

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Dec 11, 2009
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I re-watched Cloud Atlas this afternoon, and that movie is still as amazing as it was on my first viewing. This time however, I watched it right after finishing the book, and I wanted to see if it made a difference in my enjoyment of the picture.

It got me thinking about adaptations: through the first hour of the film, I was a bit sceptical, thinking that the movie skimped on way too many details apropos the book(yes, the Somni~451 arc is underdone and a bit messy, I found the Letters From Zedelghelm arc melodramatic, the Pacific Journal story to be a bit too obvious(though streamlined I have to say; the book began way too heavy on contextualising the Pacific)).

I wondered about the intentions of the directors in the making of the film. It presented itself half as a faithful presentation of the books(dialogue lifted unaltered from the book) and half it's own animal(the many streamlinings and changes). I considered that the movie might've been less polarising if:

a) It was longer, so the stories had more time to be fleshed out(though granted, the Sonmi arc is complicated in the book and rushed as well towards the end).

b) It was released as several shorter(relatively speaking) movies, each detailing the individual lives more closely to the original book.

c) It became it's own work completely, and thus have less instances of jarring plot points.

After this cognition, I was left with the thought that perhaps adapatations should never compromise in sticking to the source material. I can't imagine an instance where a piece of fiction was perfectly transcribed to the silver screen, where a fan of the source material, or heck, someone who just read it wasn't actively thinking about the delivery of the lines in contrast to that original work. This seems an unfavourable effect for a director, as it draws away from the atmosphere of their film, as well as many other key elements such as casting, line delivery, sense of time, etc.

So where am I going with this? Well, as the title suggests, should Directors abandon directly transcribing the source material into the medium? Many people agreed that The Prisoner of Azkaban of Harry Potter fame, was the best movie because it was the critical moment in which the movies diverged from the books. MovieBob suggested that the last Twilight movie was all the better because of how silly and detached the final battle was, in contrast to Stephanie Meier's original conception. Hell, The Godfather, one of the most publically-revered movies(and the LoTR trilogy to boot) was amazing partly because it did not acknowledge the original works from which it spawned.

So I pose the question: should directions create movies in consideration of the film as a creature separate of the source material, or should it live as a simulacrum of said inspiration?

Final note: However, as the movie progressed and reached it's crescendo, I rekindled my love for it, it still stands as an amazing experiment gone right for me. Though the thought of adaptations remains.
 

[Kira Must Die]

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Sep 30, 2009
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I feel that an adaptation should retain the spirit of the source material as well as hold up as a film on its own. I don't think it's a good thing to lean towards one or the other. With that said, if I had to choose, I'd rather have a good movie that's a bad adaptation (The Shinning) than a bad movie that's a faithful adaptation (Twilight).
 

Scarim Coral

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Oct 29, 2010
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The thing is, most of the people who that buy the ticket to watch the film tend to be the ones who haven't read the original source material which hollywood seen to only cared about.

I mean the only time I can think of when the majority of the audience are fans of the material if probably Star Trek: Inssurection or Nemesis?
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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Dec 11, 2009
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Scarim Coral said:
The thing is, most of the people who that buy the ticket to watch the film tend to be the ones who haven't read the original source material which hollywood seen to only cared about.

I mean the only time I can think of when the majority of the audience are fans of the material if probably Star Trek: Inssurection or Nemesis?
But what about Into Darkness? Didn't it attract both, and wasn't it problematic because it went half-way between 'appeasing' the fans and being safe for newcomers?
 

Scarim Coral

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Sigmund Av Volsung said:
Scarim Coral said:
The thing is, most of the people who that buy the ticket to watch the film tend to be the ones who haven't read the original source material which hollywood seen to only cared about.

I mean the only time I can think of when the majority of the audience are fans of the material if probably Star Trek: Inssurection or Nemesis?
But what about Into Darkness? Didn't it attract both, and wasn't it problematic because it went half-way between 'appeasing' the fans and being safe for newcomers?
Somewhat yes althought it make me wonder why the fans of the original series went to watched the sequel when they hated the reboot? They thought it would of been better?

At the end of the day, hollywood only care about making money then it is to canter to the fans of the source materials. Example, one of Lovecraft books was going to be made into a 18 film but Hoolywood wanted it to be less than 18 to gather more audience but that will sacriface the source material so the director quit since he wanted it to be faithful to the source material (can't remember which one it was, it was mention in Movie Bob The Big Picture).
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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Dec 11, 2009
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Scarim Coral said:
Sigmund Av Volsung said:
Scarim Coral said:
The thing is, most of the people who that buy the ticket to watch the film tend to be the ones who haven't read the original source material which hollywood seen to only cared about.

I mean the only time I can think of when the majority of the audience are fans of the material if probably Star Trek: Inssurection or Nemesis?
But what about Into Darkness? Didn't it attract both, and wasn't it problematic because it went half-way between 'appeasing' the fans and being safe for newcomers?
Somewhat yes althought it make me wonder why the fans of the original series went to watched the sequel when they hated the reboot? They thought it would of been better?

At the end of the day, hollywood only care about making money then it is to canter to the fans of the source materials. Example, one of Lovecraft books was going to be made into a 18 film but Hoolywood wanted it to be less than 18 to gather more audience but that will sacriface the source material so the director quit since he wanted it to be faithful to the source material (can't remember which one it was, it was mention in Movie Bob The Big Picture).
Yeah, I know of that instance, but my original question referred to whether or not making an adaptation follow the source material detracts from the intended experience, ergo, if directors should even attempt being faithful because it could compromise the effect they intended to get from the spectators.

And, well, some fans of the originals did like it. Some didn't, but the movie was a large enough success to not consider the fans who did enjoy it as a minority(nor those that didn't).

I'd also like to think that although certain directors are at the mercy of their respective studios and have to sometimes churn out crap, they still cling on to some artistic vision and intended effect for their audience, which they might care about, regardless of the compromises they had to make cause of the bigwigs at Hollywood.
 

duwenbasden

King of the Celery people
Jan 18, 2012
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I used to, now I only care if the major plot points are connected with the source material aka the "details, details" rule. Sometimes you have to realise converting a book into a movie needs a lot of ingenuity. A book can spend ages drawing details on the world in which a movie can show all in a few seconds.

Just look at The Hunger Games.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
Jan 24, 2009
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What? Of course they are. You can show something a book describes for 10 pages in one second on film, but a book can introduce more characters in 10 pages than film can in 10 hours. That's what cross-medium adaptation is like.

The way I see it, adaptations should stick to the source material as well as they can within the medium the material's being adapted to. Narrative structure and storytelling methods change from medium to medium, and what is brilliant in one can be merely stupid in the other, see also "The Counselor".
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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it is difficult...but it CAN work

the thing is [b/]changes must be made[/b] I know you probably liked tom bambodil but he didn't need to be there..

I know its very difficult to actually watch an adaptation insead of "tick off a checklist in my head" thats why somtimes it might be preferable to go adaptation to scource material...less likley to be disapointed
 

Super Cyborg

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Jul 25, 2014
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The main thing is what's being adapted to what? If a book is being adapted to a movie, it can be a bit easier, but the problem is what the story is about. Another thing to consider is if how things are described in the book can be effectively portrayed on screen. If a video game is turned into a movie or show/anime, that is a whole different thing. I remember when the Persona 4 anime came out, my friends who wanted to watch it seemed to have certain expectations, mainly that it was exactly like the came. I was able to tell them before the first episode that things were going to be very different. In these cases, you take away all interactions, and just show what happens, and if it's an adaptation, you have to convey the parts of gameplay to certain extent well enough to get the feeling of the game across still. Persona 4 is a bit easier since a lot of it is a simulation game.

Adaptations can be difficult, but if someone knows the source material, and knows how the mediums are different, it should not be a problem. The problem is when they take material and just do whatever because they assume the fans will watch it no matter what.
 

The Sanctifier

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Nov 26, 2012
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I can understand that in certain situations an adaptation needs to be made different from a movie or TV series. Sometimes you can't always fit in everything that is in a book. There is also the fact that most movies usually don't have a narrator, meaning that somethings which can be simply described in a book, i.e "The two were best friends", can take a bit longer to establish in a movie/show.Considering this example, an adaptation may require some different scenes or dialogue indicating that two people are close friend. I believe that for this reason, adaptations are always going to be somewhat problematic, since different mediums go about telling a story in different ways.

I still think it is important for the producers to avoid demanding changes simply because they want to either play it safe or appeal to more people. This usually ends up only making a story come out trite or swallow. It is not inherently true that appealing to people who enjoyed the original source material creates a limited market. Others who have not experienced the original source work may end up liking the story for the same reason the fans did.

An uncompromising word-for-word, scene-for-scene adaptation is not necessarily required. What is required however, is
that the story itself and the vital details which make up the plot and conflict should remain true to their source if they want to keep the appeal that made the story successful.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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I think adaptions should be allowed to be their own thing and be accessible to audiences unfamiliar with the source material.

And I say this as someone who loved the book Cloud Atlas and also enjoyed the movie. (And yes, they kinda fucked up Sonmi. Shame that, she was my favourite part of the book.)

Thing is, it's not like an adaption causes the original to disappear. If I want to get a "proper" Sonmi story (or whatever) then the book is right there.

Besides, I'm not sure what the point is of a direct and completely faithful adaption. It's like what they were saying with the plans to make a Last of Us movie. Apparently they're planning to stick with the exact same story. My reaction, despite loving the game and its story, was, "Why bother? We already have that story."
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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Dec 11, 2009
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Zhukov said:
I think adaptions should be allowed to be their own thing and be accessible to audiences unfamiliar with the source material.

And I say this as someone who loved the book Cloud Atlas and also enjoyed the movie. (And yes, they kinda fucked up Sonmi. Shame that, she was my favourite part of the book.)

Thing is, it's not like an adaption causes the original to disappear. If I want to get a "proper" Sonmi story (or whatever) then the book is right there.

Besides, I'm not sure what the point is of a direct and completely faithful adaption. It's like what they were saying with the plans to make a Last of Us movie. Apparently they're planning to stick with the exact same story. My reaction, despite loving the game and its story, was, "Why bother? We already have that story."
...And that's where I see the problem. A faithful or a half-way adaptation will detract from the intended experience. Unless the media presented is entirely different from the source material, it will just lessen the intended effect on the part of the audience who experienced the original works.

It's because of this ^ consideration, this fixation whilst watching, the active thought of "where is x?Why did they change Y? Why does Z look like that?" or "oh I see what they did there, it's like in the book/movie/game!" that adaptations seem problematic.

I can take that into account though. I still see the book and the movie to be separate entities that do quasi-separate things(Zedelghelm was my favourite in the book, which they made a bit too simple a story in the movie of R.F. just being 'uncovered'), I am speaking moreso on behalf of the director's challenge, and how it might affect the experience and future recollections of the experience.

Otherwise, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree that an adaptation should do it's own thing within the confines of the medium, and with accessibility & experimentation in mind during production.
 

KissingSunlight

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Jul 3, 2013
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Anytime I know a book is being adapted to a movie, I watched the movie first and then read the book. 99% of the time works out just fine for me. That way I can discover new characters and plot lines that they couldn't put in the movie. The only time that has backfired on me was World War Z. The "adaptation" of the book was pretty much just having one line from the book and just make a movie about zombies. Jim Sterling was right in the Movie Defense video of it. If it was called anything else, people would have liked the movie a lot more.