Poll: Are RPGs getting 'dumbed-down'?
- Thread starter Eduku
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this. they are just making it much more user friendly for the most part, alot of it hasn't changed, just been revamped in a better way (however there are exceptions), but for the most part it hasn't been dumbed down.Ken_J said:
hopefully they keep a variety, of hardcore rpg's that are more depthy or take the me2 route where its more action packed fun over actual choices in abilities/depth
considering how clunky and muddy micromanagement can get in RPGs (often for NO GOOD REASON) I can hardly blame people like Molyneux and the Mass Effect team trying to streamline the genre so it can sell more. Just don't go too far like a certain hamster tube simulator
JRPGs are still largely built on the House of Grind. Until that changes, the only real selling point for me might be the story (Infinite Space had a pretty good story, but the gameplay felt very very very shallow, and the grind made it even worse...)
Unless the combat is somewhat involving (Tales of the Abyss) or the grind is alleviated (Suikoden 3 has scaled exp and level caps), I'm afraid I'm not interested anymore.
Among Action WRPGs...well, the closest thing we have to a true blue hybrid is Oblivion.
Sadly, Oblivion has superficial depth. I say that because while it has access to amazing Mods, its core content hides behind some truly broken gameplay design.
Oblivion might have had a chance of having real depth if:
1) It didn't have that ass-backwards leveling system that scaled every single thing to your level. By eliminating any sense of difficulty or reward, you have in fact killed most gameplay incentives to keep playing.
2) If combat wasn't so bloody predictable. Every single spell was either a bolt or ball variant if it wasn't a buff. Hitting enemies with ranged spells felt suspiciously bland and boring.
Melee combat was greatly improved from its predecessor, but I still think it could use some expansion. Namely, to differentiate between the melee attacks.
Hand-to-Hand combat was utterly fucking worthless. Perhaps a grapple function would work, but I wouldn't want it to turn into a God of War "insta-rape QTE" attack.
Bow Combat was excellent though...or at least the Bow Physics were. I hope they improve on throwing weapons, because the animation is still really freaking clunky.
I haven't played Dragon Age yet, but from what I've seen, it's fairly repetitive but well-written (as is standard for all EA-era Bioware titles).
Does this mean RPG design has become dumbed down?
Of course it does, but that's due to the market shift from PC to console (every RPG has to compete with WoW now, and that's a losing proposition).
Console controls are not terribly conductive to complicated games. A keyboard can provide the player with (in practical terms, not literal or mathematical) close to 40 inputs, all easily in reach, and a mouse.
An Xbox 360 or PS3 controller has to condense these effects, so the game design shifted to adapt to this limitation.
Just like how every shooter limited your arsenal to Halo standards (2-5 weapons), so do these new RPGs.
Turn-based RPGs used to be more popular because of their alleged depth, but that all died out with the advent of RPG-elements being squeezed into every genre conceivable.
FF13 took criticism for not involving the player all that much, when the intent was to streamline the gameplay to match these new standards.
Unless the combat is somewhat involving (Tales of the Abyss) or the grind is alleviated (Suikoden 3 has scaled exp and level caps), I'm afraid I'm not interested anymore.
Among Action WRPGs...well, the closest thing we have to a true blue hybrid is Oblivion.
Sadly, Oblivion has superficial depth. I say that because while it has access to amazing Mods, its core content hides behind some truly broken gameplay design.
Oblivion might have had a chance of having real depth if:
1) It didn't have that ass-backwards leveling system that scaled every single thing to your level. By eliminating any sense of difficulty or reward, you have in fact killed most gameplay incentives to keep playing.
2) If combat wasn't so bloody predictable. Every single spell was either a bolt or ball variant if it wasn't a buff. Hitting enemies with ranged spells felt suspiciously bland and boring.
Melee combat was greatly improved from its predecessor, but I still think it could use some expansion. Namely, to differentiate between the melee attacks.
Hand-to-Hand combat was utterly fucking worthless. Perhaps a grapple function would work, but I wouldn't want it to turn into a God of War "insta-rape QTE" attack.
Bow Combat was excellent though...or at least the Bow Physics were. I hope they improve on throwing weapons, because the animation is still really freaking clunky.
I haven't played Dragon Age yet, but from what I've seen, it's fairly repetitive but well-written (as is standard for all EA-era Bioware titles).
Does this mean RPG design has become dumbed down?
Of course it does, but that's due to the market shift from PC to console (every RPG has to compete with WoW now, and that's a losing proposition).
Console controls are not terribly conductive to complicated games. A keyboard can provide the player with (in practical terms, not literal or mathematical) close to 40 inputs, all easily in reach, and a mouse.
An Xbox 360 or PS3 controller has to condense these effects, so the game design shifted to adapt to this limitation.
Just like how every shooter limited your arsenal to Halo standards (2-5 weapons), so do these new RPGs.
Turn-based RPGs used to be more popular because of their alleged depth, but that all died out with the advent of RPG-elements being squeezed into every genre conceivable.
FF13 took criticism for not involving the player all that much, when the intent was to streamline the gameplay to match these new standards.
YES! Very much so in fact.
I still switch around from baldur's gate 2 to other titles, and while you can expect some areas to simply not mesh together for compairison, the general feeling I get is a lack of strategy.
I feel Dragon Age is a large purpetrator of this, and while many have said it is hard-indeed a few parts, I LITERALLY slept through some parts. And yes, I was playing a mage, the "thinking" class, though the spells quickly lost their zazz and usefulness and in the end I had to resort to simply spamming tempest and blizzard from afar to get even the smallest sense of power.
AND THE OUTFITS!!! Was I the only one who wondered if maybe the art directors were watching a little too much of the bravo channel? Especially the hats! I could never bring myself to wear one.
Sorry about that tangent...
I still switch around from baldur's gate 2 to other titles, and while you can expect some areas to simply not mesh together for compairison, the general feeling I get is a lack of strategy.
I feel Dragon Age is a large purpetrator of this, and while many have said it is hard-indeed a few parts, I LITERALLY slept through some parts. And yes, I was playing a mage, the "thinking" class, though the spells quickly lost their zazz and usefulness and in the end I had to resort to simply spamming tempest and blizzard from afar to get even the smallest sense of power.
AND THE OUTFITS!!! Was I the only one who wondered if maybe the art directors were watching a little too much of the bravo channel? Especially the hats! I could never bring myself to wear one.
Sorry about that tangent...
That's one thing; the original Mass Effect for instance had TERRIBLE inventory management with samey unstackable items and mounds of weapons and upgrades you would never, ever use after some time except to convert to Omni-Gel. So for the sequel what do they do, they keep weapons to three or four per type and make the upgrades universal stat boosts.Garak73 said:
I think Dumbed Down is the wrong term for what is happening to many modern RPG's. Most of them, such as Mass Effect 2 and (by the looks of it) Dragon Age 2 are seriously trimming the fat, losing the elements of a game that previously made something an RPG (Stats, Number Crunching) and improving other elements that ALSO made something an RPG (Dialogue Systems, Choices, Multiple Plot Lines). Personally I NEVER liked the number crunching, so long as I still get some customization that makes my character feel unique enough I'm cool with it.
I would say yes, but it's not a bad thing. They may be dropping in complexity, but they are rising in entertainment value.
