Poll: Are RPGs getting 'dumbed-down'?

[Flamezdudes]

See, the thing is there is no real definition of a game which is an RPG. What makes an RPG?
Times are changing, companies are trying to appeal to a wider audience and they seem to not like the way classic RPG's are handled.

However, with the change from Mass Effect 1 to 2, i loved the changes since the combat was better and the whole clunky inventory was gone. However, i wanted more weapon choices and more vechicle combat, so BioWare need to try and find a middle ground i think.

 

[McClaud]

Here's my take:

- In various titles, yes. It seems more and more that some gaming companies have basically denied you creating your character from scratch, and expect you to play a certain character with a specific name, only making certain class or equipment tweeks.
Examples:
Mass Effect 2(in a way, you're always playing a Sheppard)
Final Fantasy (the heroes are always pre-defined and tend to work better in certain roles than others)

- In other titles, no. Some companies get it. For example, they let you create heroes that look like you and you can control every facet of their development. That's real roleplaying - you are choosing the role, appearance and attitude of your character.
Examples:
Dragon Age
Fallout 3

You may disagree with my examples, but I'm not saying those games are better than others. What I'm saying is that there's a definition of what role-playing is, and some companies get it better than others. While I don't necessarily agree that Fallout 3 is better than Final Fantasy games, it more closely resembles real role-playing. Removing elements because it's hard to "number crunch" or "get lost" or whatever is removing elements of role-playing, turning it into something easier i.e. dumbing it down.

 

[Marowit]

No, I think that technology is allowing a lot of 'complexity' to be integrated into basic game mechanics/design/customization - which doesn't always make it obvious that it's there.

As an example, I can't wait for action based Dragon's Age. I played the original game, pausing it every other move, and having to micromanage my group mates...I did not find that enjoyable in the slightest - yes it made it a little more difficult, but it made combat tedious not fun in my opinion (I'd rather manage cooldowns than pause the game every action and redirect my group members for example)

I personally think people are confusing convoluted game-play and poor mechanics with difficulty. Having a genre become streamlined doesn't mean it's being dumbed down (this argument comes up in the MMO genre too). On the contrary, it allows designers implement more fun/interesting mechanics and game-play since they aren't constrained by the more cumbersome traditional ones.

 

[veloper]

Yes, most modern RPGs are too easy and/or too actiony and not deep enough. Dumbed down.

For hybrids like Borderlands (RPS) I don't think this is so terrible. You can take your shooter or action game and slap on XP and level mechanics, no problem.

Worst example is Dragon Age, which I found was easy on hard, but many players and even most professional reviewers complained about being too hard on normal. You cannot even fault the industry for the decline; the audience nolonger knows how to play.

 

[Sylveria]

For example, you cite FF 13 which you allude to being "dumbed down", but while certain things have been simplified, the combat is much more complex than the old FF games or JRPGs in general. Does one cancel out the other?

Edit: saw this after I posted:

No more world maps because we can't let people get lost. Controlling only one character cause it's too complicated to have the player control more than one.

Can you prove it is because "we can't let people get lost"? Does it maybe make more sense that with giant resource (money and time) hogging scenery they have decided to put in fewer places and force people to go to the ones they do make rather than putting effort into something people might skip or miss?

I don't know which FF13 you played but there is no complexity in the combat at all. You win the fight by following a dirt simple pattern of 2Sab+healer > 2buff+healer >rav+com+healer or rav+rav+com if you're feeling ballsy>repeat until everything is dead. There's no need to react to a situation, every enemy is the same, just follow the pattern except for maybe 1 or 2 bosses at the very end of the game. You seem to confuse "complex" with "convoluted"

And yes, we can prove it is "we can't let people get lost." Look how much time and money was spent on stuff like FF13 which is almost a rail shooter. That game took 5 years. It almost took as long as FF 12 which was a thousand times larger of a game and FF12 had half the staff quit during production. Heck, compare it to 10 which was also almost a series of hallways but the hallways were bigger, had some branching paths and there was even secret areas. At the time FFX was top of the line graphics and took about 1/4 the time to develop.

 

[CitySquirrel]

And yes, we can prove it is "we can't let people get lost." ...

That is not proof, that is an interesting story about the development of different games. Proof would be a recorded statement of intent, a design document, etc. What you have is a situation you don't like and supposition of motives.

 

[Sephychu]

See Disgaea for my ideal inventory system. Lists with many detail boxes, and tons of space.

Having to sift through hundreds of iterations of similar weapons or items just to keep the best version of each every hour of play? No thanks!

Eh, Item Worlding effectively will leave you set with a weapon for ages and ages. That's what I did.

 

[Woodsey]

Everything is getting dumbed down. Take for instance, the most recent game in my memory, Mafia 2. For some reason, jumping and looking up seems to be gone completely. Also, the weapon selection is done with that fucking horrifying 4-button layout the consoles so conveniently use.

You know if you use the mouse wheel the 4-corner thing doesn't even show up?

 

[The Electro Gypsy]

A lot of old-school Fallout fans seemed to have the same issue with FO3 from FO2.

Dragon Age was a largely anticipated RPG, even dubbed the 'spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2' (I'm not sure if it was the devs who said this or the fans).

Yeah, Fallout 2 ruined me for RPGs (Making me a picky sod about them, most of the time I'll still go "Meh, Fallout's better and anyone on the planet with a comp can run it") and I was pretty dissapointed by Fallout 3, but it's by no means boring, it's just in desperate need of modding, especially if you play it vanilla before deciding what it's like (I direct you towards FOOK2 and mods like that which are totally bloody awesome).

I found Dragon Age pretty dissapointing actually, although again it was fun, it just couldn't hold my attention for the length of time required for an RPG, especially one of that magnitude if what I'm told about it's length is correct.

Also, wasn't Baulder's Gate the successor to Fallout 2, or was that the other way around? Not actually played B'sG yet :/

 

[The Electro Gypsy]

Heck, compare it to 10 which was also almost a series of hallways but the hallways were bigger, had some branching paths and there was even secret areas. At the time FFX was top of the line graphics and took about 1/4 the time to develop.

You're not wrong there actually, 10 was pretty much that, with a really stoopid main char. And in the cinematics everyone went orange :')

 

[Woodsey]

snip

Why is it there in the first place?

You don't have to snip me I only wrote a line xD

And because if you use the number keys like a briefcase-wanker it pops up, then you press 1 to cycle through the pistols, 2 for the rifles, etc. It's as good as HUD as any for one that most people'll never see on the PC version.

It's hardly been dumbed down, there's just no need to replace a single texture that serves it's purpose. The PC's the lead platform anyway, so I don't really see what the problem is.

[sub]Yeah, I'm watching The Inbetweeners.[/sub]

 

[Woodsey]

snip

Well, I find it horrible. And it is there because it's more convenient for the consoles. Wasn't even the biggest problem I had with the game in the dumbing down lane either.

So use the mouse wheel.

Also, I snip everything.

EVERYTHING? D:

 

[Woodsey]

snip

Everything.

I'm not saying it's unusable, I'm saying it's another example of developers bending over for consoles. As of late I started raging at every game that has those 4-button control schemes ported to PCs from consoles. For instance *cough* the Assassin's Creed games. It's not gamebreaking, unlike some other issues I mentioned, but it does get rage inducing when you realise almost nothing is being developed for PCs anymore.

Someone is bound to mention MMORPGs after this.

The PC was the lead platform for Mafia 2.

 

[masseyguy911]

I would say yes, but it's not a bad thing. They may be dropping in complexity, but they are rising in entertainment value.

Couldn't have said it better.
But, yes they are getting dumbed down, not that thats a bad thing.

 

[CitySquirrel]

You're not wrong there actually, 10 was pretty much that, with a really stoopid main char. And in the cinematics everyone went orange :')

I can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with him.