Poll: Are RPGs getting 'dumbed-down'?

[G-Force]

No but they sure as hell are getting cookie-cutter. I'm almost glad Atlus went out of business, they were the main culprit for pumping out JRPG after JRPG with bland unoriginal story, characters, everything.

Demon Souls is reguarded as one of the most unique RPGs and MMOs of all time.
Persona 4 is a RPG where the main backdrop is set against a murder mystery Not too many RPGs revolve around this concept.

For JRPG fans Atlus losing its name, the company is still around as its being part of a merger, is pretty bad but they will continue to make quality titles.

 

[TPiddy]

My only complaint really is how short some modern RPGs seem to be (DA:O I'm looking in your direction). Sorry, 40 hours to complete every side quest is pathetic. Last Rebellion was only 20 hours to obtain a Platinum Trophy for chrissake! That's short by the standards of any genre! I beat Nier 4 times in one week and got 90% of the trophies. Sad.

Anyone play DQ7? That game's length was epic. For those who don't like lengthy games, there are plenty of other genres to play.

I think Dragon Age's length would have to be padded to include all of the origins as well. Even when doing that it's still short, but I played through it 4 times, and then did the other two origins and got about 135 hours of gameplay.

Sure you're doing the same environments multiple times with different characters to get the lenght, but how is that any different from using copy / pasted dungeon generators like some RPG's do to pad length? I would think Fallout 3 is the best example I can come up with of a game that legitimately took a hell of a long time for a single playthrough. I think my first build topped 70 hours? I went EVERYWHERE though.

 

[TPiddy]

Demon Souls is reguarded as one of the most unique RPGs and MMOs of all time.
Persona 4 is a RPG where the main backdrop is set against a murder mystery Not too many RPGs revolve around this concept.

For JRPG fans Atlus losing its name, the company is still around as its being part of a merger, is pretty bad but they will continue to make quality titles.

Trying to figure out how Demon's Souls is an MMO....

 

[TPiddy]

I've seen people complain about not being able to respec (in games like Sacred 2 for example). I see this only as a problem when the game does not provide clear enough descriptors for the stat/ ability in which you are placing a point.

I've no problem with not being able to respec my character though. (My Seraphim in Sacred 2 has only died 4 times and is at level 107 - I was aiming for 0 deaths though).

Can you imagine if you could respec a Demon's Souls character? It might take the challenge out of the equation - by crafting your character each time you enter a new area (or boss fight).

I think I'm a little divided on this issue. On one hand I hate seeing developers throw players a bone like that, but on the other hand if you fuck up your build so badly you can't beat the game.... well, maybe in those cases the devs should have balanced the skill trees... I remember Diablo II having some horribly unbalanced skill trees.

 

[G-Force]

Demon Souls is reguarded as one of the most unique RPGs and MMOs of all time.
Persona 4 is a RPG where the main backdrop is set against a murder mystery Not too many RPGs revolve around this concept.

For JRPG fans Atlus losing its name, the company is still around as its being part of a merger, is pretty bad but they will continue to make quality titles.

Trying to figure out how Demon's Souls is an MMO....

Player interaction plays a huge part in Demon Souls. Players can leave hints and warnings behind for other players in the level not to mention there is the option of summoning another character into your game from the huge masses to help you in your level. On the opposite end you always run the risk of having your game be invaded by another character which then shows the game's PvP aspect.

 

[Ascarus]

"Dumbed down" is such a nebulous term that can basically be taken to mean anything that an individual doesn't like about current RPGs. What are the criteria for being "dumbed down"? What aspects are you referring to, the stats or the role-playing or both? Does dumbed down just mean simplified? Any tabletop player would say computer RPGs are dumbed down in that sense. Further more, specifics have to be qualified: was Dragon Age dumbed down because they though BG was too complex or because when BG was made they could make a vast world with relatively few resources unlike today's manually rendered worlds?

It seems to me that this is an entirely subjective issue. The question is really more along the lines of "do you individuals more enjoy complex stat based systems, streamlined story telling devices, etc." For example, you cite FF 13 which you allude to being "dumbed down", but while certain things have been simplified, the combat is much more complex than the old FF games or JRPGs in general. Does one cancel out the other?

couldn't have said it better myself and it all boils down to that one sentence i highlighted.

really, this post pretty much sums it up.

edit: stupid quote tags!

 

[mohosuru]

I say yes they are getting dumbed down, in the sense that they are becoming way too easy. I mean, final fantasy 10 I didn't even have to try for most of it. the most difficult rpg's I ever played were Breath of Fire III, Legend of Legaia, and Legend of Dragoon, all of which were ps1 games. nothing on ps2 comes close. Final fantasy, which is my favorite rpg series, is still fun, but it's just getting easy. I want to face a boss that actually HAS a chance at beating me. and in the last 6 years, I haven't met one yet.

 

[Cowabungaa]

No. Not at all.

That's not true. Compare, say, Planescape: Torment, the original Fallout and Arcanum with modern day RPG's like Mass Effect, Oblivion and Fallout 3.

The difference in complexity and open-ness is rather staggering. Not saying new RPG's are worse, they're just a lot different. I enjoy them both, but I'd love to see one a new old-school, extremely deep RPG where the sky's the limit.

 

[mxfox408]

I can agree with square getting lazy hence thier million excuses not to recreate ff vii.

 

[Quad08]

No idea to be perfectly honest.

However they're still fun to play so I don't really care

 

[XT inc]

Allot of rpg's seem to be getting moronified. The game goes ding, and all the stuff you used to have to micromanage goes up for you. I think in general console gamers are feeling it worse because we get that mixed with the dumbing down of gameplay mechanics and controls. they call it automatic progression with one button combat. We call it a lack of character control and lame button mashing because all your skills are on one button.

Rpgs take a long time to play, companies should be less worried about dumbing down games and more worried about defeating the jrpg/ pokemon syndrom. Whereby you have to grind pointlessly to level your characters in the most menial and laborious ways. Think grinding the same simulation in front mission 4 for cash so you dont die in the next story stage.

 

[Nieroshai]

Things usually do tend to decline until an innovation comes out that redefines RPGs. The next FF7-scale innovation could be years away, or come out next release cycle. I do like many recent RPGs, but I do admit they aren't AS epic as the ground-breaking originals. I like ff13 for example, but I acknowledge it's pretty flawed and less of an RPG than even Fable ever was.

 

[conflictofinterests]

To me, there are plenty of mechanical role playing elements, but not nearly enough contextual role playing elements. I can put points in to my S.P.E.C.I.A.L. spread all day long, but no matter how many mutants this lets me kill, it's not going to compare to when I

Spoiler

negotiated the entrance of Ghouls into Tenpenny Towers without a drop of blood shed, to come back to a hotel full of human corpses and self-satisfied ghouls.

My Gatling gun-assisted wrath upon the terrified citizens is what MAKES the game a role playing game, in my opinion (Even if the citizens are scripted to be there and so respawn whenever I leave)

 

[Imbechile]

Yes they are. Oblivion is a perfect example of a hardcore RPG series dumbed-down. Bring back the D&D days. Also, can anyone recommend me a dungeons & dragons type of game that is newer that Neverwinter nights 2.

Oblivion wasnt dumbed down at all if you modded it properly, I kknow that does not excuse its vinalla being bad but after slaping on some mods you could get alot of depth out of it

Well I was talking about vanilla Oblivion
Soon I'm going to reinstall Oblivion and mod it like hell. I will completely change the gameplay because I think that even thou I don't like Oblivion I still think that bellow the things that I hate about it lies a good game. I just need to change the gameplay drastically. Also, do you know If there is a mod for Oblivion that places some caravans or some type of transport? I would like to completely ignore the fast travel but, if i'm in Anvil and I want to go to Leyavin, Then I need to walk/ride A LOT. Morrowind had silt striders, boats, ..... many transport options so you never felt that fast travel was needed.

 

[TPiddy]

Trying to figure out how Demon's Souls is an MMO....

Player interaction plays a huge part in Demon Souls. Players can leave hints and warnings behind for other players in the level not to mention there is the option of summoning another character into your game from the huge masses to help you in your level. On the opposite end you always run the risk of having your game be invaded by another character which then shows the game's PvP aspect.

Sorry, but 1 player in your world does not constitute an MMO... 'data' left by other players in your world does not constitute an MMO. Fable 2 did that already and it's not an MMO.

 

[G-Force]

Sorry, but 1 player in your world does not constitute an MMO... 'data' left by other players in your world does not constitute an MMO. Fable 2 did that already and it's not an MMO.

Ah but that's the beauty of Demon Souls as you are indeed playing with a large number of players. The hints are dropped by multiple players and you view the most popular/well liked hint which are approved via a vote system that's done in real time. Not to mention as you play through the level you can see ghost images of all the other players playing through that area and see what they're doing and more often than not they provide much needed clues and warnings. You can see some ghost images go through walls which hints at secret rooms or see another image fall over and die which can show upcoming dangers such as traps.

Players often describe the game as a "single player MMO" or a game that blends many MMO experiences into a single player game to re-enforce its themes of loneliness and atmosphere.

 

[kingcom]

Saying that RPGs are being dumbed down implies that they were once intelligent. Which also assumes that they were better way back in the day than they are now. I wouldn't say either of those are true, but what I would say is that the RPG world is continuing to evolve.

I would love for you to play something like baldur's gate or planescape torment and then repeat that statement.