Poll: Are scholarships designated for African-Americans racist?
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i think that the world needs to get rid of any form of positive or negative racism/sexism.
are african american students able to apply for and get other scholarships or are they limited to only african american ones? no they arent so basically they get exclusive rights to one type of scholarship and can also, if they are good enough, get another scholarship from someone else.
its so hard being a white male. you get no hand outs like these scholarships just cause your black or female.
are african american students able to apply for and get other scholarships or are they limited to only african american ones? no they arent so basically they get exclusive rights to one type of scholarship and can also, if they are good enough, get another scholarship from someone else.
its so hard being a white male. you get no hand outs like these scholarships just cause your black or female.
Your method of debate is quite juvenile. It is based, essentially, on your groundless assertion that every argument contrary to your own, is based on the meaningless and completely subjective lables of "political correctness" and "paranoia".dathwampeer said:
What you are doing is just a veiled version of "you're wrong because I said so!". It didn't work in Kindergarten. Why would it work now?
I don't see a problem with it, though it should be changed to accommodate other ethnicities in much the same manner, without reprisal. Same way I think of feminism, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
Reminds me of a time when friend of mine tried to start a White Student Union at my school. It wasn't going to be racist, nothing offensive or discriminatory beyond the simple 'Are you white? No? Then why are you signing up for this?' argument. Naturally, it got shot down for being offensive. Never mind the fact that every other ethnicity has a student union at my school, and they're a hell of a lot more selective than my friend's planned club was going to be.
His point illustrated, I can't help but agree that the scholarships can be indirectly racist when not given to other races.
Reminds me of a time when friend of mine tried to start a White Student Union at my school. It wasn't going to be racist, nothing offensive or discriminatory beyond the simple 'Are you white? No? Then why are you signing up for this?' argument. Naturally, it got shot down for being offensive. Never mind the fact that every other ethnicity has a student union at my school, and they're a hell of a lot more selective than my friend's planned club was going to be.
His point illustrated, I can't help but agree that the scholarships can be indirectly racist when not given to other races.
In Canada we have a sort of double-think on this. Yes, it's discrimination, but it aims to redress and diminish the inequities between ethnic groups. Because it's discrimination aimed at diminishing discrimination, it's okay.
Think of it as using the weapons of one's enemies against them (discriminate to diminish inequality), and how difficult it was to choose the paragon path at the end of ME2, and the argument becomes more compelling.
Think of it as using the weapons of one's enemies against them (discriminate to diminish inequality), and how difficult it was to choose the paragon path at the end of ME2, and the argument becomes more compelling.
Sorry but that's a very naive way of looking at this issue. White people glean far more benefit from gov't spending and public works than any minorities do. Go and do a quick survey of the various stata of society, and what do you see in terms of race? Can you honestly say that a severe imbalance doesn't exist? What you are saying would only be possible had White culture not already devoted hundreds of years to instilling racial inequality into its culture and institution. Predjudice obviously is alive and well but more veiled than ever. Yes, it is gradually eroding away and that's great progress, but the damage has been done to the cultures affected. "sink or swim" might look great for some cold, "Darwinist" agenda, but I am sure that Darwin himself would have never condoned the abandonment of the humanity we have evolved to have.Merkavar said:
what i dont get is why do people think that black people should get an exclusive scholarship? cause they are all poor and dont have the same opportunities as white people? because they were 2nd class citizens a little while ago? why?
basically i dont see the difference between a poor white family and a poor black family. they probably both give there children the same chances at a better life through schooling (public schools) etc so why does the child from the black family get an exclusive scholarship, well a chance to get one anyway.
dont make sense
basically i dont see the difference between a poor white family and a poor black family. they probably both give there children the same chances at a better life through schooling (public schools) etc so why does the child from the black family get an exclusive scholarship, well a chance to get one anyway.
dont make sense
so just cause someone is black and poor they should get more than someone who is white and poor? seems like its just going to instill more racial inequality just in the opposite direction of 50, 100, 200 years ago.UberNoodle said:
i just dont think race or sex or religion should ever come into a discision to give someone a hand, to give them a chance at a better life. were all just people. the discision should be made by lookingat the person and in the example from the OP see if they have achived x and shown leadership or what ever it was.
it shouldnt be, you have good grades and shown that your a leader and oh your also black. heres a scholarship.
Well, I don't know. I'd probably prefer situational scholarship funds, available to any with horrendous living conditions, rather than blanket "Race x (who is largely discriminated against and, statistically, tends towards near poverty)", because it will lead to the occasional well to do person getting a ride they don't have a right to.
That said, I know little about the mechanics involved. Do the aforementioned African Americans have to be living in certain circumstances to attain eligibility? Because I refuse to believe that every single African American lives in shit conditions- 'course, I might just be naive.
So, my response? A hesitant "No, it's ok to do this", with a proviso- it has to be justifiable from every angle. No decently well-off person taking advantage, no one losing a chance because of that well off person.
That said, I know little about the mechanics involved. Do the aforementioned African Americans have to be living in certain circumstances to attain eligibility? Because I refuse to believe that every single African American lives in shit conditions- 'course, I might just be naive.
So, my response? A hesitant "No, it's ok to do this", with a proviso- it has to be justifiable from every angle. No decently well-off person taking advantage, no one losing a chance because of that well off person.
How about if this was done in gaming or sports terms:CarpathianMuffin said:
Would a heavy weight boxer be appropriate against a feather weight, simply because "we are all human, aren't we?"? Should a pro-Street Fighter player play not pros and "newbs" without handicap. simply because "we are both human, are we not?"?
Yes, they can, but is it fair? In society, equality is paramount. Sadly society bears the damage and instilled inequality of at least hundreds of years of predjudice and racism. That status quo is changing but it won't in anybody's life-time. Should we ask a black boy with aspirations to succeed, living in a low income family past 8 Mile, to wait a couple of hundred years for society to shed its White, post-colonial baggage?
That's hardly fair, and it can be argued that that boy's white neighbour should be eligible for the scholarship too. I understand that. The thing is, he probably IS eligible for a scholarship, such as some low-income, single parent or whatever one. Regardless, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, otherwise NOTHING would ever get done. These scholarships are the lesser of several evils.
I think a better alternative would be to take all the scholarship money and feed it directly to the schools themselves, with the stipulation that schools stop being horrendously overpriced.
Throwing money at individual people and trying to give each individual applicant with the right set of qualification and circumstances is a logistical nightmare. If schools were cheap enough for everyone to reasonably afford, we wouldn't even have to argue about this to begin with.
I'm in 12th grade, and I have to apply for a co-op course in my university. What this means is I'll be working year-round for 4 years (plus another two terms), alternating work and study so I can earn money to pay off my education. (A "term" is a 4-month period, like Jan-April, May-Aug, Sept-Dec). If I were to take a student loan (or if I was related to someone who ate bullets and shat gold), I'd only need to study for 4 years, and only for 8 months out of the year. If co-op wasn't an option I'd basically need a degree so I can get a job good enough to spend the rest of my life paying off my student loan. The system is fucking broken.
I don't think you should be made of money to afford an education. An ideal education system would be one wherein nobody would depend on a scholarship to get them into a university to get them a degree to get them out of poverty.
Throwing money at individual people and trying to give each individual applicant with the right set of qualification and circumstances is a logistical nightmare. If schools were cheap enough for everyone to reasonably afford, we wouldn't even have to argue about this to begin with.
I'm in 12th grade, and I have to apply for a co-op course in my university. What this means is I'll be working year-round for 4 years (plus another two terms), alternating work and study so I can earn money to pay off my education. (A "term" is a 4-month period, like Jan-April, May-Aug, Sept-Dec). If I were to take a student loan (or if I was related to someone who ate bullets and shat gold), I'd only need to study for 4 years, and only for 8 months out of the year. If co-op wasn't an option I'd basically need a degree so I can get a job good enough to spend the rest of my life paying off my student loan. The system is fucking broken.
I don't think you should be made of money to afford an education. An ideal education system would be one wherein nobody would depend on a scholarship to get them into a university to get them a degree to get them out of poverty.
These types of things were certainly necessary when first implemented. But when it has gotten to the point that not only is it common, but accepted that individuals of minority groups are awarded acceptance at universities and scholarships over more qualified non-minority students, something needs to be done about it. I personally am applying to some of the most prestigious schools in the United States, and find it irksome to say the least that there still exists regulations preventing the acceptance of students based purely on ability and performance, not background or skin color.
It's academic discrimination. Students should receive rewards based on their academic achievements and not their background/race/gender.
Well, since African-Americans already have to deal with subtle discrimination from employers, I'd say this just evens the playing field.
-- You do not undergo horrible discrimination because of your race. The worst racial slur that can be hurled at whites is "cracker", or variants thereof. Not quite as bad as the abuse that gets hurled at Asians and African-Americans.
-- It's not like white guys are the only guys to be portrayed as abusive. Hell, black guys get an even worse rap for domestic abuse in the public perception, so white guys can't really complain.
-- Latently-homophobic and can't dance? Sorry honey, but that's fairly spot-on. Although, in the case of homophobia, it's being male that's the problem, rather than being white.
So for the most part, it's being male that's your problem. And guys like us don't really have it so bad. Women get a pretty raw deal when you think about it. They're still getting paid less than us, and they've got the whole gamut of self-esteem hurdles to deal with too. Count yourself lucky.
Ehh, no you aren't. Because you make up a majority, that kind of excludes you from being a minority. Power rests in the hands of the few, so the Rich White Male is not an overwhelming majority. And while you're decrying stereotypes directed at the Young, Poor, White Male, let's get a healthy dose of perspective:JaredXE said:
-- You do not undergo horrible discrimination because of your race. The worst racial slur that can be hurled at whites is "cracker", or variants thereof. Not quite as bad as the abuse that gets hurled at Asians and African-Americans.
-- It's not like white guys are the only guys to be portrayed as abusive. Hell, black guys get an even worse rap for domestic abuse in the public perception, so white guys can't really complain.
-- Latently-homophobic and can't dance? Sorry honey, but that's fairly spot-on. Although, in the case of homophobia, it's being male that's the problem, rather than being white.
So for the most part, it's being male that's your problem. And guys like us don't really have it so bad. Women get a pretty raw deal when you think about it. They're still getting paid less than us, and they've got the whole gamut of self-esteem hurdles to deal with too. Count yourself lucky.
joshuaayt said:
It is very short sighted and clearly "cherry-picking" to assume that these scholarships are the only ones available. Anyway, I hate repeating myself, but read what I wrote above. Inequality clearly exists and it won't change in any of our life-times. It won't change by economic and legislative bandaids either. But it certainly won't change by applying to the falsilty that nothing is wrong and therefore nothing needs to be done.Merkavar said:
And of course there is a proceedure to get these scholarships and of course they are in limited number. It isn't "AM black, GET scholarship". That kind of logic doesn't work anywhere else, why would it work here?
Additionally, whites need to take a step back and see the forest for the trees. We whites get far more benefit from gov't spending, public works and big business than any of these minorities do. It only requires a quick survey of social strata to assertain that fact. We take for granted the countless ways in which billions of dollars are spent on us, our futures and our lifestyles.
These aren't earmarked for "whites", but whites dominate many other positions of power apart from skin color. Economics and location, access to public works and spending, access to facilities, health, etc are definately the major factors towards racial inequality in any society today. How about the rich, dominated by white culture, who use loopholes to get social security or gov't "support" for themselves and their own kids? There's picture being painted by critics here that only the black people could possibly subvert the honesty of the system.
Society and its structures, demographics, disribution and institutions have already bear the "damage" of past and continuing white dominance. Racism today is much less intentional today, and that's great, but the baggage of the past continues to purpetuate inequality. These scholarships are better than nothing and are the lesser of several evils.