Poll: are the catholics outdated?

[icame]

Yes it is. Though I may be biased with me being an atheist

Most of the catholics I meat are pretty cool people. They don't believe every stupid thing in the bible such as the hatred of homosexuality. I have met a few crazy catholics, one even came to my door trying to get me 'help stop the spreading plague.' I had a good hour conversation with him, and it took every bit of will I had to stop me from punching him. The amount of hate this man had for Homosexuality was simply disgusting.

I think the world would be a much better place if there was no religion.

 

[WanderingFool]

I dont see anything wrong with religion, its the people that fallow and lead the religion. That said, I think Chatholicism is outdated, and there needs to be a movement to bring it into the modern age.

 

[icame]

How about we all convert to the church of Cthulu! That would be awesome!

 

[Baradiel]

I don't know... Do all abrahamic religions exist only as means of legitimizing oppression and consumption of planetary resources to increase the wealth and power of various elite/royal classes the world over?

Do they exist almost entirely to:
1. Legititmize primarily male dominator hierarchies and systematic oppression
2. Promote the idea of anthropocentrism, the belief that humans are superior to all other lifeforms, and that human will always supercedes the will of any other organism, or even that other organisms have no will of their own.
3. To make the masses believe that their lives on Earth are a test or judgement and that the only consequences that matter are ones concerning their afterlives, so that they don't question the domination that keeps them as ad hoc slaves.
4. To promote imperial expansion in order to allow the wealthy elites to retain and increase their wealth, in the name of converting heathens and/or civilizing savages.

Oh my, no offense but you're just a little bit of crazy away from conspiracy theorist, also Humans are superior to all other life forms that we know of, thats why people have zoos.

He's not a conspiracy theorist. He's pointing out very obvious points.

1. Women are not allowed to be in the clergy in Catholicism. Numerous Bible passages say that the wife should be subservient to the husband. By using the threat of an afterlife, based on their actions in this life, people are manipulated through fear into following the diktats of a century old book.

2. The Bible basically gives humanity free reign to fuck about with any animal/non-human simply because it isn't human. Animal rights? Fuck 'em. The Good Book says they don't have any!

3. As mentioned in the first point, name one scientific reason, other than fear, to believe in any form of an afterlife. We don't KNOW what happens when we die, and the fact we're blessed with imagination means we can create the idea that there is divine judgement waiting for us. Karl Marx once described religion as 'The opium of the masses' and he was spot on. 'Obey your King! He is chosen by God!' 'Obey the Pope, he is God's chosen!'. That was how feudalism worked: Lords were chosen by the Monarch (chosen by God, remember), so in essence the Lords were Gods servants.

4. The Pope gave permission to explorers in the Americas to enslave and pillage the civilisations there, because it would bring them closer to God. Its common knowledge that giving people a common enemy unites them. The First Crusade was just that. Europe was in chaos, just coming out of the Dark Ages. There were warlords and rebellions all over the place. The Pope at the time knew he needed to regain some semblance of order, so he promised any and all people who went on the Crusade eternal reward in heaven.

So yeah, Hunde Des Krieg was pretty much stating facts.

 

[messy]

Snip

First of all I think it's safe to say that you and I have very differing opinions on this and I don't see either of us convincing each other any time soon. However I just want to say thank you for the intelligent conversation you've generated. Its' been a rather boring last few days and this really got the heart/mind racing.

Also I am willing to admit the Pope himself may not be outdated, and at the very least is not intrinsically outdated. I think the majority of problems with religion is with some of the people who practise it, not the concept itself. Belief in a deity itself is fine, and it can be neither proved not disproved so who am I to judge what's real. The only thing I will clear up is that Atheist disagree when concerned with their own personal morality not some scientific morality. I know science cannot make moral judgements (I said similar earlier), we also can't do aesthetic ones either.

Now I think the best way to put this sort of message is without me putting anything so it doesn't look like I'm declaring myself the winning then buggering off.

(oh sorry for the snip, but things looks better aesthetically this way, now just need a way to prove it)

 

[Duskwaith]

Youve watched the Catholic faith? In what sense? did you follow the pope round for a day or have you based your entire view on some Fox news esque media?

The catholic church is alittle behind the times but it was a hell of alot worse pre-Vatican council II and this whole crap about deposing the Pope is just stupid like he is some sort of dictato, catholic dogma dicates he is the succesor of Peter.

Id sooner like to see rober mugabe being overthrown instead of an old guy

 

[Ethylene Glycol]

OP, for your next poll, you should ask "is water wet?"

 

[Geekosaurus]

Outdated doesn't necessarily mean bad - look at Converse. But in the case of the Catholic church, yeah it's pretty bad.

 

[AK47Marine]

Is challenging other people's beliefs and choices because they don't gel with your beliefs and choices outdated? That's been going on pretty much since we had language and has caused plenty of deaths, wars, etc.

I'm not actively trying to troll or anything here, I'm just saying, they do things their way, you do things yours, can't we all just ignore each other in the name of getting along and lowering our collective blood pressure?

 

[rutger5000]

Catholisme is not outdated, for it differs from person to person. Some have outdated ideas, some have not.
The Vatican however is outdated, it has no place in the modern western world anymore. Anyone who disagrees should either check the news more often or get a brain check.
Blaming the Vatican for wars and poverty isn't fair though. Like the Unworthy Gentleman said: "Religion is used as a mask for the greed of men." The greed of men is the cause of wars and poverty, not religion. Without religion people would have found other excuses to start wars.

 

[kypsilon]

I have nothing good to say about religion, so I won't bother. I do believe that as religions go, staunch Catholicism suffers from stagnation. Their views are so wrapped up in ritual and history that they seem to have no place in a modern society. Many things that crop up in religion are often societal quirks that were adopted into formal ritual. As it stands now though, I think Catholicism is a business, a slow lumbering corpulent mass that will eventually shift its ludicrous heft into something a little more palatable to today's society...but not without some serious growing pains. Until they do, find some other way to get your God on.

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

Catholisme is not outdated, for it differs from person to person. Some have outdated ideas, some have not.
The Vatican however is outdated, it has no place in the modern western world anymore. Anyone who disagrees should either check the news more often or get a brain check.
Blaming the Vatican for wars and poverty isn't fair though. Like the Unworthy Gentleman said: "Religion is used as a mask for the greed of men." The greed of men is the cause of wars and poverty, not religion. Without religion people would have found other excuses to start wars.

The Vatican is not really outdated. They are about as up to date with the sciences as you can think. They even have a team of scientists that live in Vatican City and are paid to figure out everything from quantum physics to the origins of the universe. The Vatican is just as, if not more open to find out how the world works as the average atheist.

See, I think the assumption that most of this thread is going under is that everyone who is religious are the dickheads we see on TV or we have run into in life, or that the official views of the Church match these dickheads. Not so. The official view of the Catholic Church is to be very open to the sciences, though I doubt any "devout" Catholic follows that view.

But I think what this threads needs to determine is the difference between just having faith and being an ignorant zealot. Are we really going to blame the whole Catholic Church because of the zealots, who probably make up a minority of the Catholic population? That would be like other people condemning the whole video game industry because of the antics of the thirteen year old psychos on Halo multiplayer.

 

[irani_che]

popular religion is never
It ability to change and re-interpret itself defines how long it lasts for.
If all catholics felt the same as you then the preists and such would change their views accordingly.
but ppl agree with them enough for the church to be comfortable in pushing the rest of the beleifs.
If you dont believe me, look at how much its message has changed in the past 20/50 100 years

 

[flamingjimmy]

Yes Catholicism is outdated, but only as much as all other religions are.

 

[FalloutJack]

Nah, I don't think they're out of touch. The Pope ALSO declared that all extraterrestrial beings were considered god's children as much as human beings were. That's pretty forward-thinking, I say.