Poll: Are you a "real" atheist?

[Superhyperactiveman]

Although I'm not an atheist, I am aware that the overwhelming majority of escapist users are. Today in my philosophy class, we were discussing a man, whose name I don't remember, but for some reason I want to say Peter Singer.

In any case, we're going to say it is Singer for now. Singer is an atheist, and a professor at Princeton. He has a lot of ideas on philosophy that are... radical...

Now, one is that the overwhelming majority of atheists are not real atheists, because even though they don't believe in the Christian God, they still accept a large number of Christian ideals that are based on the existence thereof, such as human diginity (I.E. people are all born with a certain amount of dignity and deserve a certain amount of respect just for being people.)

According to Singer, if you're really an atheist, then you shouldn't have a problem with... say... passing a law stating that the government kills people once they reach a certain age at which they are no longer of any benefit to society. Because really, think about it, if there's no God, why keep them around. They're just a drain on our resources and they're not doing anything meaningful. Why the Hell shouldn't we kill them?

You also shouldn't have a problem with beastiality. After all, if there's no God, why shouldn't people just have sex with whatever they want. Same goes for pedophillia. If you do have a problem with it, then you're just a close-minded bigot.

He's completely insane, but fascinating.

So, my question is, according to Singer's logic, are you a "real" atheist, or do you still bind yourself by the ridiculous Christian notions that I do, since I'm such a stupid theist...

 

[Vuljatar]

Fuck that crackpot. I'm an atheist, but I'm also a decent human being. Not believing in Christianity doesn't mean you need to believe the exact opposite of everything it preaches.

 

[Cuniculus]

Religion likes to think that they invented morality, and that is where this Singer fellow seems to get his ideas. It's like this. I am a true atheist, believing in absolutely no higher power or magical force. I still uphold laws and morals however, because it's basically how we have evolved.

Sure, thousands of years ago we might actually be forced to kill off older members of a tribe when they can't help, and are still taking up a portion of our already scarce food. Now however, through the marvel of modern medicine, not only can we take care of our elderly without it hurting us, most elderly can work and provide for themselves until they die.

As for bestiality, gross... and pedophilia, gross, but also biologically it makes sense not to because it seriously fucks with the victim.

 

[Heresy101]

Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in a God, nothing else.

By this rationale, you aren't a real Christian if you abide by teachings that happen to be a part of Islam too. What a joke.

Also, this assumes the only thing that's stopping a Christian from killing people is a belief in God...so they're refraining from killing people just because they want to go to heaven, or are afraid of hell...or they just want to please their imaginary judgmental friend. You're saying if you didn't believe in God you'd be killing and maiming. Is that really goodness?

 

[RebelRising]

Those aren't Christian notions; those same ideals and standards are quite widespread and more often than not older than Christianity. If he really believes atheism hinges on associated ideas that are simply social evolution, then his is a moot point.

That's really all I have to say; Christianity itself is full of enough contradictions to cast doubt on the notion that the doctrine itself is anywhere near set in stone. Atheism is a lack of belief in a higher deity. No more, no less; beyond that is merely up to the personal persuasions of each individual. Atheism and/or varian thereof is intended to liberate your ideological self, not further constrain it.

 

[lostclause]

He seems to think atheism is amoral. It is not. As an atheist myself I recognise an inherent morality, albeit very subjective and not of divine origin.

So, by his logic, no.

 

[Heresy101]

I think it's also worth pointing out the immorality that religion promotes (see stoning adulterers and apostates to death, killing gays, etc).

 

[Kubanator]

Atheism is the ideal that rational should take presidency over anything. Pedophilia is bad because it mentally scars a child leaving him less productive in society later in life. bestiality is bad because it replaces reproduction. It's perfectly fine to say that you kill off those less useful to society, but then you need a method of measurement, and that's where ambiguity kicks in, and rational leaves.

The logic behind this philosopher is astoundingly irrational.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

i can see the guy's point and the point about morality. i think everyone is not understanding why he's making it. i will try and explain it as far as i understand it.

he's saying why should people act moral if they don't believe in a god. he's theorizing while people say they don't believe in a god but still act in a moral fashion because they are afraid of some sort of retribution from a god when they die. he's saying there's no benefit in being totally moral if you don't think anything will happen to you when you die.

i can see his point and really it's a rather valid one and makes you think of why you are behaving the way you are and claiming to believe what you do.

 

[Horticulture]

Religion =/= morality.

 

[Iron Mal]

While religion can serve as a source of our sense of morality it would be narrow minded to assume that it is the only one out there (it certainly contributed to our sense of 'right and wrong' as we know it today but it is not of vital importance).

I personally do not believe in God and view myself as an Athiest although I don't conedone peadophilia or beastiality (the former is child abuse which I comdemn on moral grounds and the latter just doesn't seem like a good idea, do I really need to enter a moral debate over it?).

A lack of faith does not equal a lack of empathy or kindess (hell, look at the number of inhumane crimes and killings committed in the name of God, you can seriously tell me that all of that is morally acceptable?).

 

[Bofus Teefus]

Nice statement for the agnostics. Where would you lump me? I do care, but don't think anyone, be it myself, anyone of any assortment of religions, or athiests, has any idea of what "the truth" is. The reason I'm curious as to where you'd lump me is that most of my friends are conservative nut-job Christians, who have managed to lump me in with athiests, even though I won't say that God doesn't exist.

I guess my question to you is "is there room in your categorization of peoples beliefs for there to be a single agnostic who does care?"

 

[clipse15]

I think it's also worth pointing out the immorality that religion promotes (see stoning adulterers and apostates to death, killing gays, etc).

Really you think religion promotes those things?

 

[Heresy101]

I think it's also worth pointing out the immorality that religion promotes (see stoning adulterers and apostates to death, killing gays, etc).

Really you think religion promotes those things?

Have you read the Koran or the Bible?

 

[clipse15]

I think it's also worth pointing out the immorality that religion promotes (see stoning adulterers and apostates to death, killing gays, etc).

Really you think religion promotes those things?

Have you read the Koran or the Bible?

Yes I have read the bible I also went to a catholic school. I'm an atheist but athiests who spout out distorted facts about the bible are just as bad as crazy christian extremists. So now i ask you have you actually read the bible?

 

[Heresy101]

Yes I've read the bible and attended multiple catholic and christian schools. Remember the parts about Sodom and Gomorrah? Not exactly tales of exquisite morality. Even the 10 commandments - the best the bible has to offer on morality...they're an awful guide. Hell, forget the bible, look at Mother Teresa calling abortion "the biggest threat to peace in the world", or the Pope saying the use of condoms just makes the AIDs problem in Africa worse. These people are insanely influential in the world today and making disgusting claims that will undoubtedly ruin lives. Religion doesn't promote immorality? Please.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Atheism is the ideal that rational should take presidency over anything.

No, atheism is the belief that there is no god or higher omnipotent being. That is all. Atheism is no more or less rational than contemporary religions. Anyone who thinks so is deluding themselves.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

While religion can serve as a source of our sense of morality it would be narrow minded to assume that it is the only one out there (it certainly contributed to our sense of 'right and wrong' as we know it today but it is not of vital importance).

I personally do not believe in God and view myself as an Athiest although I don't conedone peadophilia or beastiality (the former is child abuse which I comdemn on moral grounds and the latter just doesn't seem like a good idea, do I really need to enter a moral debate over it?).

A lack of faith does not equal a lack of empathy or kindess (hell, look at the number of inhumane crimes and killings committed in the name of God, you can seriously tell me that all of that is morally acceptable?).

he's not saying that, what he's doing in a round about way is asking WHY you are doing that and for what reason? he's saying that if there really is no god and you believe that, then there's no real need for you to care about certain things happening, tho he is taking some extreme examples his point is valid.

he's asking WHY it's the right and moral and good thing to do and why you are exactly doing it. he's questioning people's moral tendency to lean towards a Judeo-Christian way of acting and moral code rather than other ways.

to put give it a bit of an analogy, it's like people on the internet who are jerks to everyone. most of them aren't bound by a moral code to be nice. they do this mostly cause of a lack of the possibility of retribution or as i say the lack of someone being able to punch you for saying something. they act like jerks and say what they want cause they know there's no chance of retribution, such as being punched in the face. in person they won't act this way cause they know the other person can punch them in the face for being a jerk.

so what he's saying is that people are only acting in one way because they are afraid of retribution at a later date and if they really and truly believe there isn't a god, then they should have no fear of retribution.

 

[clipse15]

Yes I've read the bible and attended multiple catholic and christian schools. Remember the parts about Sodom and Gomorrah? Not exactly tales of exquisite morality. Even the 10 commandments - the best the bible has to offer on morality...they're an awful guide. Hell, forget the bible, look at Mother Teresa calling abortion "the biggest threat to peace in the world", or the Pope saying the use of condoms just makes the AIDs problem in Africa worse. These people are insanely influential in the world today and making disgusting claims that will undoubtedly ruin lives. Religion doesn't promote immorality? Please.

So do you take everything you read at literal and face value? How does that work out for you?