Poll: Asperger Syndrome [please vote, even if you don't know what it is]

[LordMarcusX]

So what? I didn't choose to be messed up, either.

I think, though, a distinction needs to be made. Personality disorders do not lack intent; that is, a person with a personality disorder chooses to continue their behavior. For a neurological disorder, this would be nearly impossible. A middle ground, mental disorder, is a bit less distinct.

For a person with autism, their neurology is physically impaired. It is unlikely they can simply elect to overcome their social inhibitions, for example.

For a person with social anxiety -- can they simply choose to overcome said social inhibitions? I would say some yes, and some no. But that is the limitation of the DSM -- mental disorders reside in a grey area where the difference between choice and biology is still indistinct with our medical knowledge.

For a person with borderline personality disorder (and, bear in mind, nothing else, as neurological and mental disorders can present with personality disorders as well), they are equipped to understand their actions, are able to anticipate reactions to their actions, and are capable of understanding beforehand the likely consequences of their actions. They simply, basically, refuse to acknowledge, either through plain denial or a stubborn refusal to accept anything but their own will, their condition, or prefer their condition to the work required to improve said condition or over improvement at all. The only reason this gets to be called a disorder, really, is that a disorder is loosely defined as any state or situation that results in a failure for a person to maintain a reasonable state of existence -- which is why, for example, the DSM-IV includes guidelines for depression that include one or more debilitating states or events that meet a criterion for "disorder."

Frankly, I think "personality disorder" is a bit of a misnomer, since it's only really a disorder for everyone around the person, and not a disorder FOR the person until that person acknowledges it as such -- although some obvious criteria can lead to legitimate diagnoses of "disorder." If your continued negative actions result in you being out in the street with no food, for example.

Not to piss anyone off, but I look forward to a day when the science of the brain catches up to the point where we can definitively pinpoint the causes of so-called disorders. Either we'll find out that many of us who believe we are disordered are simply hiding from our own bad choices, or we'll find out that neurology is everything and answer a lot of questions about things like choice, the soul, etc.

If you have a personality disorder alone, though, you choose to continue to have it, if you even believe you really have it, diagnosis from a medical professional notwithstanding.

 

[tthor]

and about your last comment,
tho you dont make a very valid point, often, depending on the disorder, admitting you suffer from that disorder does not nesicarily mean you are not taking responsibility for your actions, but merely that ther might be a better way of accomplishing the goal at hand rather then the "normal" way.

to say admitting it is to use it as an excuse is the same thing as saying a man in a wheelchair is just using that chair as an excuse for why he can't get up the stairs [tho i do not mean to sound rude]

I'm going to come out with it to give you a more accurate perspective on why I said it, I have IED, Intermittent Explosive Disorder, basically when sufficiently provoked I explode in a violent rage. Luckily so far I've taken it out on walls, old computers anything other than a person, but the day it gets so bad I lay into a person, that's assault, maybe ABH or even GBH, I'm going to prison regardless of the disability.

Spoiler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_explosive_disorder

Anyway, thanks for clearing it up, do you have any suggestions for how she can act to stop what's going on?

i guess i understand your previous opinion a bit better, since it sounds like your disorder can be a bit more easily 'directed',(but with AS, the symptoms dont just show up when provoked or stimulated in some way, but instead are always present. its almost like their entire brain is wired quite differently then most other ppl)

hmmm... im not sure, not knowing the full details of the situation..
what i can tell you, which may or may not help, are some of the symptoms that i think would play a role in this type of behavior..
for 1 thing, ppl with AS think very logically(which usually means they will always look for specific rules or patterns that they can use to guide there choices and actions, ["they did this, and that happened, so maybe if i do this as well, i may get the same reaction"]
this logical way of thinking can be their greatest strength,but also their greatest downfall, for it makes understanding the 'rules' of social interaction difficult(since there really isnt much for strict 'rules' in social interacting), so he may, for some reason, not feel the way he is acting is as bad as it truly is, not fully realizing how other ppl feel about how he is acting.
ppl with aspegers often tend to obsess over something that currently has caught their interest (normally, i would use things like math, scetching pictures, computers, etc as examples, but, i guess it could also apply to obsessing over people[which, again, would only strengthen the idea that he greatly lacks general social skills, including reading another's social cues/body language])

this person must come off as extremely strange and socially awkward in most normal situations, am i rong?

Firstly thank you and to answer your end question, not to sound politically incorrect or anything, but yes you're spot on, he does come off as incredibly strange, topics of conversation are sometimes beyond what people would call "normal". I'll pass what you've told me on to my friend, see if she can think her way out of this situation knowing his frame/state of mind better, she too is very logical.

I know I used to word "directed" but that's not quite accurate, my PC in the case of me practically dismantling it was the source of the push over the edge. My mother going on about trying home made soup constantly with me saying no, I got up and began to walk away, she said it once more and I kicked the living room door off it's hinges, walls is me feeling I'm getting close to a explosion, everyone knows a really tense wound up feeling, and then me pushing myself over the edge to punching the wall, which has left me with fractured wrists and broken knuckles more than once. It's more a case of whatever is in front of me, which is why I always walk away from a argument. Sufficient provocation is more of a off button for self control.

Anyway, I've strayed from your topic once again with my own problems, the only reason I'm not deleting it is because it took ages to write, sorry. once again thank you, your insight is appreciated.

ya, i figured as much. that incredible lack of social skills is about the only good reason for why he would do that type of thing (atleast with only taking A.S. into play)

oh ok.
and no problem with getting off topic, i find stuff like this pretty intesresting.
no problem bout the help, either. one of the reasons i created this topic was to help ppl better understand what Asperger Syndrome is, and how it affects those ppl who have it.

 

[sms_117b]

ya, i figured as much. that incredible lack of social skills is about the only good reason for why he would do that type of thing (atleast with only taking A.S. into play)

oh ok.
and no problem with getting off topic, i find stuff like this pretty intesresting.
no problem bout the help, either. one of the reasons i created this topic was to help ppl better understand what Asperger Syndrome is, and how it affects those ppl who have it.

Wow, those quotes were getting long, I know you started the topic to educate and help, but I was brought up to be thankful of any help given to me, even if it was offered. Was just being polite.

 

[tthor]

5 out of 12 votes say they actually have Asperger's Syndrome? It's the new A.D.D.

Not to say Asperger's is a joke. To have it is potentially debilitating. But being anti-social, shy, or agoraphobic is not to have Asperger's. There are serious neurological issues at work with Asperger's.

i agree with your first statement but not your second. i'm close to being absolutely sure that asperger's syndome, like ADD, is total bullshit, and have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. i have some seriously SEVERE social phobias, but i'm not diseased, i just hate people.

also, you cannot self-diagnose mental disorders with google. if you think you are f-ed in the head, go see a psychiatrist.

actually, it is proven that people with asperger syndrome, their brains work different then ppl who are 'nurotypical'(the PC word for 'normal')
this difference in how their brain works does infact show up on a brain scan

tho there is a good chance some AS diognosis could just be a misdiognosis of another disorder, for many different disorders do share quite similar symptoms, including ADHD (which was actually wat i was diognosed with before my new school had tested me and diagnosed me with AS)

so it is possible some AS diognosis could really just be an overdiagnosis of another disorder

 

[tthor]

.

 

[BlackPhoenix0928]

I have one story to regal you with. It is of my friend. He has AS but he does not blame any of his problems on it. I respect him alot, but he tends to accidentally put himself down by not blaming asbergers when it is ,in fact, the problem in the conversation. Luckily he tends to get out of these issues easily and feel better the next day. We even laugh at his AS together and have agreed to call it his "fear of Asperagus". Making light of the situation tends to help him out.

 

[GyroCaptain]

I've been on the receiving end of someone who used AS as an excuse for their behavior. That doesn't mean he didn't have it, of course, he definitely did. The trouble with physical coordination, inability to receive social cues during conversation, repetitive habits, literally every item from the criteria to a great extreme (and the kinds of thing that people who self-diagnose generally lack). I have an uncle diagnosed with OCD back before AS had been classified per DSM, and while he hasn't been to a psych in a while I'd lay all kinds of money he has AS (if for no other reason than putting up with a known quantity). In other words, while I don't have AS, neurological disorder does run in my family and I have firsthand experience with it.

I do have bouts of compulsive behavior and have had the occasional panic attack, but not AS as such.

 

[tthor]

Asperger Syndrome is this generation's ADHD. Vague "symptoms" which a doctor is quick to diagnose. I know 2 people that apparently have this disease, and neither of them acted any differently that anyone else before they were told about it. Now, it's become an excuse for them if they don't want to go out on a Friday night or have to do something they might not want to do. Bullshit.

Asperger Syndrome itself is very valid,
buut, proper diagnosis of it may in some cases not be quite as valid.
and honestly, to blame not wanting to go out or not wanting to do something on asperger syndrome NOT ONLY does not make much sense based on its symptoms, but so much as SAYING that is the exact opposite of what i would ever expect of most ppl with AS to say, because saying that outloud to a friend would completely go against some of the main symptoms of aspergers

 

[GyroCaptain]

5 out of 12 votes say they actually have Asperger's Syndrome? It's the new A.D.D.

Not to say Asperger's is a joke. To have it is potentially debilitating. But being anti-social, shy, or agoraphobic is not to have Asperger's. There are serious neurological issues at work with Asperger's.

i agree with your first statement but not your second. i'm close to being absolutely sure that asperger's syndome, like ADD, is total bullshit, and have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. i have some seriously SEVERE social phobias, but i'm not diseased, i just hate people.

also, you cannot self-diagnose mental disorders with google. if you think you are f-ed in the head, go see a psychiatrist.

I'm assuming you've never been around someone with severe AS, you might think differently. It does exist, because I'm familiar with someone who has it badly enough he could be described as the combination of Rain Man and the kind of nerd who can recite every episode name of Babylon 5. (His specialty was space programs.) It is more or less a VERY high-functioning autism with distinct characteristics; although self-diagnosis of it is high enough to seem to discredit it I'd be careful discounting it, unlike the ADD scare.

 

[tthor]

So what? I didn't choose to be messed up, either.

I think, though, a distinction needs to be made. Personality disorders do not lack intent; that is, a person with a personality disorder chooses to continue their behavior. For a neurological disorder, this would be nearly impossible. A middle ground, mental disorder, is a bit less distinct.

For a person with autism, their neurology is physically impaired. It is unlikely they can simply elect to overcome their social inhibitions, for example.

For a person with social anxiety -- can they simply choose to overcome said social inhibitions? I would say some yes, and some no. But that is the limitation of the DSM -- mental disorders reside in a grey area where the difference between choice and biology is still indistinct with our medical knowledge.

For a person with borderline personality disorder (and, bear in mind, nothing else, as neurological and mental disorders can present with personality disorders as well), they are equipped to understand their actions, are able to anticipate reactions to their actions, and are capable of understanding beforehand the likely consequences of their actions. They simply, basically, refuse to acknowledge, either through plain denial or a stubborn refusal to accept anything but their own will, their condition, or prefer their condition to the work required to improve said condition or over improvement at all. The only reason this gets to be called a disorder, really, is that a disorder is loosely defined as any state or situation that results in a failure for a person to maintain a reasonable state of existence -- which is why, for example, the DSM-IV includes guidelines for depression that include one or more debilitating states or events that meet a criterion for "disorder."

Frankly, I think "personality disorder" is a bit of a misnomer, since it's only really a disorder for everyone around the person, and not a disorder FOR the person until that person acknowledges it as such -- although some obvious criteria can lead to legitimate diagnoses of "disorder." If your continued negative actions result in you being out in the street with no food, for example.

Not to piss anyone off, but I look forward to a day when the science of the brain catches up to the point where we can definitively pinpoint the causes of so-called disorders. Either we'll find out that many of us who believe we are disordered are simply hiding from our own bad choices, or we'll find out that neurology is everything and answer a lot of questions about things like choice, the soul, etc.

If you have a personality disorder alone, though, you choose to continue to have it, if you even believe you really have it, diagnosis from a medical professional notwithstanding.

wow, i had never heard of this before (atleast not stated directly)
ty for this input

 

[tthor]

I'm assuming you've never been around someone with severe AS, you might think differently. It does exist, because I'm familiar with someone who has it badly enough he could be described as the combination of Rain Man and the kind of nerd who can recite every episode name of Babylon 5. (His specialty was space programs.) It is more or less a VERY high-functioning autism with distinct characteristics; although self-diagnosis of it is high enough to seem to discredit it I'd be careful discounting it, unlike the ADD scare.

i like the way you describe it, espesually in using the words "VERY high-functioning"

i guess one thing i sortof fear is that when ppl just know a small bit of what AS is, that they will automatically jump to the mental image of a 'special' student, drooling into a cup, and having to be led by hand from class to class

when truly, a HUGE chunk of all the greates minds in history are believed to have had asperger syndrome, from Einstein, to davinci, to charles dickens, to henry ford, and many more.
ppl with aspergers tend to be quite superior in certain area to nurotypical ppl, tho also inferior in other certain areas as well.

lol if there were know asperger syndrome, i would bet you all that we would probably STILL be in the mideavil ages

 

[tthor]

"Unlike those with autism, people with AS are not usually withdrawn around others; they approach others, even if awkwardly, for example by engaging in a one-sided, long-winded speech about a favorite topic while misunderstanding or not recognizing the listener's feelings or reactions, such as need for privacy or haste to leave. This social awkwardness has been called "active but odd"."
-[jus quoted directly from wikipedia, didnt think it needed to be sumed up at all]

Man that sounds exactly like me *groan*. I only realise that the listener was bored and I had been babbling on for too much AFTER the conversation. Don't think I have AS though. However, I am not that open but I still approach others.[/quote]

hmm...
i think u should read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
see if you feel the same way about this article as that quote

feel free to ask me anything after reading that

 

[NewGeekPhilosopher]

lol if there were know asperger syndrome, i would bet you all that we would probably STILL be in the mideavil ages

In Medieval times, Asperger's people weren't called Asperger's people, they were called Changelings and people thought they had been switched by Faeries with their own child. So naturally stupid Middle Ages thought decreed that one had to put the baby in the oven to try and bring the child back. It didn't work. Cooking a meal in an eggshell didn't work either, but at least the child lived.

 

[Spider Expert]

GAWD I remember way back in I think my second year of high school, I generally hated the generic high-school stereotypes (Prep, Emo, Jock, etc) and decided I'd go into Tertiary education... Now off this alone - the School Psychiatrist declared I had Aspergers because I did not want to be around these people my age. From that experience alone apparently what I consider having common sense gets you labeled as a aspergers child.

Yeah with no bad personal medical history I'd say you were spot on there doc.

 

[Dioxide45]

I want to know if I have Asperger's because I have reading emotions and I often bore people because i talk about a subject they dont know anything about and I dont realise they dont want to talk about that subject. I have trouble being on my own (I freak out if im not near my parents I'm 13 but it gets really bad if I am away for longer than a day, and I dont mean like the regular sort of homesickness I get really freaked out and I feel scared and alone.)
I am obsessed with Astronomy but i dont really care about many other aspects of science. I really love animals, and i can read their emotions better than people's. I am having trouble with learning Japanese and I couldnt learn more than a phrase of german. Whenever i talk for more than short phrases I slip into a monotone and dont realise it. I always notice small changes in everywhere around me or small problems like a slightly folded bookmark i straightened yesterday. I have trouble sleeping(both getting to sleep, staying asleep and sleeping in).I have problems catching rugby or oddly shaped balls. I still cannot ride a bike...Thats all i can identify with from the Wiki list so far, but i am tired so i may have missed one.

 

[Shotgunbunny]

I know a guy who has it.
He can be kind of hard to deal with sometimes, like how he sometimes seems to like screwing people over intentionally but not in a harsh way.
He also has some problems with undertaking things. Can't really put it differently.

Besides that he's fine.

 

[Jesterz]

I don't have any mental disease, But i would like to know what its like to be compelled to do something ie. have tics. Although i guess i can only wonder.

 

[electric discordian]

I know people with the problem, some deal with it and others use it as a crutch to blame all of lifes ills upon, " I have a god given right to be an arsehole, because I have Aspergers!" I know it's not the same but I have pretty serious food allergies and I hate having people, using allergies as an excuse to steer a situation to their advantage. No one says I don't like curry any more they say "I'm Curry Intolerant!"

I would imagine there are a fair few people who love being the centre of attention and have Aspergers whenever they wish to push a situation to their advantage, if you actually have it it would really annoy you.

But I must admit I have met the attention seeking ones more than any, I have no time for those that don't attempt to better their own lives. But Im willing to help anyone who wants it.