Poll: Australia Tax Bioshock.

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lachlan4567

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Sep 21, 2011
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Basically for the past few months, I've noticed a habit of the "Australia Tax" taking effect on digital downloads. The most recent of these is Bioshock infinite's Season pass and Burial at sea part one DLC. The season pass is listed as 1600mp in the in game store (still showing original prices after the switch to $)
800mp was roughly $10, yet the season pass in Australia is 29.55 compared to the US $19.95.
In all pre release info the Individual episodes of Burial at Sea it was revealed that they would be priced at $15 each. Yet in Australia it is now $19.99 the price of the season pass in the US.

Aus store.
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-AU/Product/BioShock-Infinite-Season-Pass/2fd3d328-9cd3-4846-a0db-1d89aee236ad


US Store.
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/BioShock-Infinite-Season-Pass/2fd3d328-9cd3-4846-a0db-1d89aee236ad

So what I would like to know is that if you believe that this practice is acceptable in this coming age of digital downloads ?
 

Albino Boo

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For a start the tax regimes are different between the US and Australia which is part of the reason why things are more expensive. The reason why digital downloads are priced higher is because the publishers have entered into an agreement not to offer large digital discounts with Australian bricks and mortar shops. The reason why things are more expensive in Australia generally is because you have a small population and low population density. Which means that it cost more to ship units to Australia and more to distribute them in country. In future prices may come down, if bricks and mortar shops go but they will never be equivalent because Australia has a sales tax and the US price does not.
 

Anthony Corrigan

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Jul 28, 2011
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Wrong wrong wrong

Australia has a 10% GST so if it was because of tax then the prices would be only 10% different

The reason games are priced higher for Australians is "BECAUSE THEY CAN". That was seriously the answer that Adobe and Microsoft gave to the senate inquiry on software pricing when they were summoned (because they refused to even appear until they were forced to)

This is about Itunes music but its the same thing for games and software

 

lachlan4567

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Sep 21, 2011
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The thing is though, currently EB games is still selling the season pass at $19.99 the only rise in price has been on the digital side. It just seems like they thought they could sneak in a little ($10 price raise) when they switched over to real world dollars.
 

Albino Boo

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Anthony Corrigan said:
Wrong wrong wrong

Australia has a 10% GST so if it was because of tax then the prices would be only 10% different

The reason games are priced higher for Australians is "BECAUSE THEY CAN". That was seriously the answer that Adobe and Microsoft gave to the senate inquiry on software pricing when they were summoned (because they refused to even appear until they were forced to)

This is about Itunes music but its the same thing for games and software
Small but rather important point there are custom dues to pay on physical imports which the electronic sales are designed to price match.
 

Anthony Corrigan

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Jul 28, 2011
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albino boo said:
Anthony Corrigan said:
Wrong wrong wrong

Australia has a 10% GST so if it was because of tax then the prices would be only 10% different

The reason games are priced higher for Australians is "BECAUSE THEY CAN". That was seriously the answer that Adobe and Microsoft gave to the senate inquiry on software pricing when they were summoned (because they refused to even appear until they were forced to)

This is about Itunes music but its the same thing for games and software
Small but rather important point there are custom dues to pay on physical imports which the electronic sales are designed to price match.
Ok assuming that is correct according to EBAY that customs duty is another 5%

http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/The-A-Z-of-Importing-into-Australia-Duty-GST-Customs-/10000000015634691/g.html

still not seeing 70% which is the difference for Itunes for example

And again, if it was all taxes a) the companies would have said so openly in the senate inquiry and b) we wouldn't have NEEDED a senate inquiry because the government could have fixed the problem themselves
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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albino boo said:
The reason why things are more expensive in Australia generally is because you have a small population and low population density. Which means that it cost more to ship units to Australia and more to distribute them in country.
Gonna have to call you on that one. Actually some of the highest density. We all live on the coast.

OT: I think games are too expensive, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to vary the price based on region because the money has different buying power. That said, when I can buy a game over eBay shortly after launch and be getting a bargain even with shipping costs, there's a practical concern to be had.
 

Albino Boo

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MeChaNiZ3D said:
albino boo said:
The reason why things are more expensive in Australia generally is because you have a small population and low population density. Which means that it cost more to ship units to Australia and more to distribute them in country.
Gonna have to call you on that one. Actually some of the highest density. We all live on the coast.

OT: I think games are too expensive, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to vary the price based on region because the money has different buying power. That said, when I can buy a game over eBay shortly after launch and be getting a bargain even with shipping costs, there's a practical concern to be had.
You might all live in the coast but there only 22 million of you. Even the state with highest population density in Australia is only 23 per square mile as opposed the UKs 661 per square mile. The distance between London (8 million) and Birmingham (3 million) is 120 miles. The distance between Sydney and Melbourne is 440 miles. If you drew a circle around Tilbury docks radius 440 miles, in the UK only, you would have the best part of 60 million people. If you added in the continent you would get at least another 30 million.
 

octafish

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Anthony Corrigan said:
Wrong wrong wrong

Australia has a 10% GST so if it was because of tax then the prices would be only 10% different

The reason games are priced higher for Australians is "BECAUSE THEY CAN". That was seriously the answer that Adobe and Microsoft gave to the senate inquiry on software pricing when they were summoned (because they refused to even appear until they were forced to)

This is about Itunes music but its the same thing for games and software

Yeah. It was cheaper for my sister to fly to L.A. from Melbourne, walk into a shop and buy Adobe CS6, and fly back, than it was to download it from Adobe's site in Australia. She made a holiday of it, but the flights and CS6 were cheaper than buying it direct from the developer. Madness.

BTW, don't forget to calculate GST twice. Retailers pay GST on their stock, then add margin to cover costs and make a small profit, then add GST again. Can't blame the retailers though they make their prices as low as possible with just enough margin to stay in business. Mind you Adobe only pay GST once.
 

Nielas

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Dec 5, 2011
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octafish said:
BTW, don't forget to calculate GST twice. Retailers pay GST on their stock, then add margin to cover costs and make a small profit, then add GST again. Can't blame the retailers though they make their prices as low as possible with just enough margin to stay in business. Mind you Adobe only pay GST once.
Don't the retailers get a tax refund on the GST once they sell their stock? I know that's how GST works in Canada thus any 'second GST' would be just profit taking by the retailer rather than a real tax.
 

MysticSlayer

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Well, being from one of the countries that tries ripping Australians off, I guess I'm not as emotionally (or financially) attached to it as others.

But, at the same time, so long as they aren't breaking any laws, I do have to ask: What is the problem here? OK, yes, I know, paying more is unpleasant, but being unpleasant, in it of itself, hardly makes it wrong. No one is forcing anyone to buy the game, and it is a luxury item, so it isn't like you need the game anyways. If people in one market are still willing to buy the luxury products regardless of the inflated price, then there is hardly any wrong being done by the company by charging the higher price because, as has already been established, people are willing to pay that higher price. It's almost like someone complaining about the $60 price of games and then going out to buy the latest Call of Duty game on launch day. It doesn't send any message to the developers to lower the price, just that you are unhappy with the current price but are still willing and able to pay it.

Once again, I'm not as emotionally or financially attached to this matter as others, but it still makes absolutely no sense that a company is being immoral by charging a higher price to a market when that market is still willing and able to buy the products.
 

octafish

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Nielas said:
octafish said:
BTW, don't forget to calculate GST twice. Retailers pay GST on their stock, then add margin to cover costs and make a small profit, then add GST again. Can't blame the retailers though they make their prices as low as possible with just enough margin to stay in business. Mind you Adobe only pay GST once.
Don't the retailers get a tax refund on the GST once they sell their stock? I know that's how GST works in Canada thus any 'second GST' would be just profit taking by the retailer rather than a real tax.
Not at the time, they need to make it to the EOFY. They don't get a refund either, they get tax credit. Trust me that is not the same as profit when you are struggling to stay afloat.
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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MysticSlayer said:
But, at the same time, so long as they aren't breaking any laws, I do have to ask: What is the problem here? OK, yes, I know, paying more is unpleasant, but being unpleasant, in it of itself, hardly makes it wrong. No one is forcing anyone to buy the game, and it is a luxury item, so it isn't like you need the game anyways. If people in one market are still willing to buy the luxury products regardless of the inflated price, then there is hardly any wrong being done by the company by charging the higher price because, as has already been established, people are willing to pay that higher price. It's almost like someone complaining about the $60 price of games and then going out to buy the latest Call of Duty game on launch day. It doesn't send any message to the developers to lower the price, just that you are unhappy with the current price but are still willing and able to pay it.
Then they can't complain when we have one of the highest digital piracy rates in the world.

Once again, I'm not as emotionally or financially attached to this matter as others, but it still makes absolutely no sense that a company is being immoral by charging a higher price to a market when that market is still willing and able to buy the products.
It's more because we don't have any other choice. It's a worldwide "Fuck Australia Tax", are we just supposed to stick to buying only food, gas and playing with sticks?
 

mr141177

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Jan 21, 2013
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Funnier when companies whinged about everyone buying online from overseas was destroying their businesses, because you could buy for up to 50% off.

Also as an upshot of that senate inquiry was that if Adobe, Microsoft, Apple etc. are going to charge massively inflated rates because they can then the government doesn't care if Australians use dubious means to side step the costs.
Piracy is still a crime, they just arent gonna chase you down for it
 

ShinyCharizard

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Yeah it's a real fucking joke. I can get games in Australia fairly cheap at retail stores but the prices for digital content is absolute bullshit. If it costs 30%-50% more to purchase a digital title than you are fucking doing digital distribution wrong.
 

Jon Solmundson

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Jul 26, 2012
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Being from Australia, and also somewhat studied in economics, I'd like to suggest a few reasons.

1) Shipping goods to Australia used to be, and still is, expensive. Australian's are used to paying this inflated price so it stands that they can continue to pay that price - just as Americans are used to paying $60 for every AAA new release.

2) At the beginning of the generation, Australian dollars were worth a little over half an American dollar and again if Australian's are used to paying that price, why change? Now we're pretty much on par with the USD so it doesn't make any sense, and worse still sites that charge all prices in USD (eg. Steam) still charge more for their products when bought from an Australian address. XCOM: Enemy Within is currently $50 on Steam for Australians, this is made even more insulting when we can clearly see it listed as $30 in the search box - it just changes when you get to the store page.

3) Australian national income is much higher than in the US. This is the one I have to concede on. As a student earning minimum wage I make something like $16 an hour - and while we don't accept tips, that's still astronomically higher than US or many other markets. This is a perfectly valid argument, those with more money can pay more for goods.

HERE'S THE THING: Other consumer electronics, and especially fashion products (both of which are luxury goods) are considerably cheaper, because Australia's high dollar makes imports cheap. Games have failed to follow this trend as they are a niche product, and few competitors offer (and more importantly care) games in stores. EB Games (owned by Gamestop) is the only real games-exclusive shop, and they have no ambition to update their pricing scheme because people still buy everything through them anyway. Dick Smith (a very unpopular electronics store) sells games on release for around $70 - $80, their competitors sell them for $100 - $120 (the Australian standard) but no one buys them from Dick Smith anyway, so the other retailers have zero incentive to change their prices.

In case you missed it from the last few people who said it, there are retail/digital pricing agreements in place that dictate how goods are priced. So effects on the retail market equally impact the digital space.

Personally I believe the income disparity should allow for some price difference, but a 20% rather than 50% increase. As it stands I import all my games personally at a lower cost than I would face purchasing them on digital platforms or at retail, which is just poor customer relations.

TLDR: It's a little to do with history, and a lot to do with Gamestop.
 

Sangnz

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It is at the point where majority of the time it is cheaper to order a physical copy from Amazon and ship it in than buy in a shop or even the digital version.
 

Neyon

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Well it is partly price discrimination. In many cases this is bad for consumers and there is a genuine case for the government to take legal action. In other cases it isn't so simple, it could even be the morally right thing to do. For example, a life-saving drug that costs more in the U.S. than it does in Africa to allow Africans to access it while still keeping it economically viable as a product worldwide.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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octafish said:
Yeah. It was cheaper for my sister to fly to L.A. from Melbourne, walk into a shop and buy Adobe CS6, and fly back, than it was to download it from Adobe's site in Australia. She made a holiday of it, but the flights and CS6 were cheaper than buying it direct from the developer.
Didn't Adobe try to justify the price difference as being necessary to support their business infrastructure in Australia, which they don't even have? The fucking gall of them.

The Aus govt should publish a list of companies that practice regional price discrimination and geo-blocking and splash that shit across the national media. Let's see how those fuckers feel about "because we can" then.