Poll: Autonomy and Philosophy

[JC175]

This is just a question we were considering in my philosophy lecture today - the topic was ethics and the pursuit of happiness. According to a guy called Kant, there are only two intrinsically valuable pursuits (an intrinsic value is one that justifies itself) - happiness and autonomy. Autonomy is basically when you give the law to yourself, that is, you have your own set of individual reasoning, and you completely decide how to act without the influence of other sources.

If all that made no sense, it doesn't matter. Because the problem I'm asking about comes straight from the Matrix. If you had the chance to be plugged into a computer that would simulate a world for you, identical to the real world, except it can make you happier than ever possible in reality, would you take it? Or would you prefer to keep your autonomy in sacrifice for the unhappiness and other emotion that comes with normal life? Discuss.

 

[Inverse Skies]

I like my autonomy. Personally I love the idea of being able to control my own destiny and ability to go through life living it the way I choose to. It's quite comforting to know that actually. Even if I require guidance from other people, which I quite often have to, it's nice to know the final decision is always mine.

It's the great part about being an adult - you don't have to do anything if you don't want to.

 

[Aramax]

If you had the chance to be plugged into a computer that would simulate a world for you, identical to the real world, except it can make you happier than ever possible in reality, would you take it? Or would you prefer to keep your autonomy in sacrifice for the unhappiness and other emotion that comes with normal life? Discuss.

Why not simply take the best of the two worlds?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_neuroscience

Soon you will be able to litteraly become the machine yourself. A world free of disease, without boundaries or limitation where death does not exist.

Our brains are just a biological computers and we are the programs.

 

[Vay]

people don't give up autonomy easly, even if it where possible to have a 100% happy, simulated life. but since everything if perseaved as relative, there will always be parts that seem bad, even in the perfect life.

 

[JC175]

If you had the chance to be plugged into a computer that would simulate a world for you, identical to the real world, except it can make you happier than ever possible in reality, would you take it? Or would you prefer to keep your autonomy in sacrifice for the unhappiness and other emotion that comes with normal life? Discuss.

Why not simply take the best of the two worlds?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_neuroscience

Soon you will be able to litteraly become the machine yourself. A world free of disease, without boundaries or limitation where death does not exist.

Our brains are just a biological computers and we are the programs.

That is true. The point though is to see if you value autonomy or happiness over the other, its a philosophical excercise. I love this shit.

 

[Labyrinth]

I don't think I'd put up with an entirely artificial lifestyle. For years I've argued that I'm better off contemplative and miserable than a joyous sheep and to that I hold. It's part of being more than a little existentialist. The meaning which holds true value to me is one I've constructed myself.

That said "No man is an island." We all draw influence from the world around us, whether we do it consciously or not. Even active opposition to an idea uses the original thought as a reference to oppose. I suppose what I'm asking is can one be purely autonomous? All my experience and evidence points to the 'no' option there. In a paradoxical way such a statement uses reference and hence is not autonomous in and of itself. Have you got a headache yet?

If all beings are essentially meaningless with the only purpose being constructed by artificial reasoning within a consciousness does it make a difference either way?

 

[olicon]

I like my routine. I like going through the motion. Thinking hurts ma brain.

 

[JC175]

Why is it giving up autonomy to be plugged into a computer which will simulate a world for me? Unless it also simulates me, then I've still got autonomy--it's just that the rules have changed. And if it simulates me, then I'm actually not even there in the first place--I ceased to exist when I got plugged in.

You give up your autonomy in that sense because all of a sudden you are completely enveloped by paternalism, in a way. The very fact that this new, virtual world is perfect completely destroys your abilty to choose something lesser than perfection, thereby nullifying your autonomy as your only choice is happiness - there is no longer any right to unhappiness should you wish to seek it.

 

[Sion_Barzahd]

I like my autonomy, but if i had a world simulated to bring me absolute bliss, i would get severely bored.
I mean where would be the emotional conflicts and turning points of life, either as an individual or as part of a group, which could extend as far as the whole planet.

 

[Dys]

Escapism is a huge part of why I play video games, read books, drink etc, so I would naturally assume given the option I would definately want to plug myself into digital utopia, that said I'm not sure I'd handle it long term, as I can never stay detached from the real world for too long at once.

 

[Gooble]

Autonomy. And while we're on the subject of the Matrix:

Why? "Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life"; "You humans seem to define your very existence through suffering and misery"

Also I'm a pretty happy person in my current autonomous life, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference either way.

 

[starrman]

I'm not sure there's such a thing as autonomy. It seems to me an illusion, much like free will. So I guess to me there's no difference between the two choices.

 

[Benj17]

Autonomy as said previously allows choices

Having a perfect life handed to you just takes all options away

i mean obviously i wouldnt mind someone coming up to me at the moment and asking if i wanted a job that pays 60k a week but firstly im not a footballer and secondly it will seriously deprive you of knowledge, experience and opportunity. I used to have a teacher that always taught us to grab any opportunity you get because you might never get the chance again.

Being autonomous allows you to under go once in a life time opportunities and if you take them up you will be a happier person in doing so. Having it given to you on a plate means that it will just become routine and almost like a chore, but because of the simulated life, you'll have to enjoy it.

In terms of the matrix, i would mind being told if this life was simulated because at the moment i've lead my life differently from others around me and i believe myself to be autonomous and not a sheep.

If that means i qualify to be the one then im sorted

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

Isn't the latter, kind of, the goal of civilization? To forge "Utopia"? because in essence that's what Utopia is.

 

[JC175]

Why is it giving up autonomy to be plugged into a computer which will simulate a world for me? Unless it also simulates me, then I've still got autonomy--it's just that the rules have changed. And if it simulates me, then I'm actually not even there in the first place--I ceased to exist when I got plugged in.

You give up your autonomy in that sense because all of a sudden you are completely enveloped by paternalism, in a way. The very fact that this new, virtual world is perfect completely destroys your abilty to choose something lesser than perfection, thereby nullifying your autonomy as your only choice is happiness - there is no longer any right to unhappiness should you wish to seek it.

But I chose this new, virtual world of my own free will--making a choice means taking responsibility on some level for everything that results from that choice. If I take out a loan on my house, I no longer have the right to not pay the bank money consequence-free, just like I no longer have any right to unhappiness should I wish to seek it once I choose the matrix.

What I've given up is not autonomy, but the right to change my mind later about the consequences of my choice. Obviously that kind of choice must be made with 100% autonomy; one might even say that the requisite level of autonomy is impossible to achieve in practice because in the real world we're always under some kind of pressure, but hypothetically, it's possible.

The definition of autonomy is being truly able to decide and reason and have control over your choices, take a cat for example. Say the cat wants to chase a bird - the cat does not think about the consequences - whether the bird has family, that it's killing an innocent animal, etc - it just moves into killing mode, as all cats do. But you wouldn't say a cat is autonomous, because it cannot think about its actions, it simply acts on genetic influences, if you will. So even though you make the full decision to enter this virtual world, you're experiencing all these wonderful things that you want to do, yet you have no reason to consider why they are happening or challenge them - your world is being generated for you, thereby you find yourself in a completely paternal world where your actions are just knee jerk reactions, in a way.

It's interesting to consider, though.