Poll: Azor Ahai Reborn (Spoilers)

[Agent Larkin]

I only say this because I can't remember the name of the character but I thought

Spoiler: SERIOUS Spoilers Ahead

The guy who leads the undead(?) band of soldiers who fight for Robert was supposed to be the reincarnation? Y'know the group Arya is brought too in Book Three part 1 and Catelyn winds up in after the Red Wedding

Spoiler

Beric Dondarrion, was the leader of the Brotherhood without Banners, he was the only undead one. Although he passed his zombieness to Cat, do you mean him?

Yes that person. I forgot about what they did so I'm thinking of retracting my statement there.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

I think I'll cast my vote in with Jon. There is a heck of a lot of compelling evidence to support that.

But for speculation on that I can direct you to no better a link than this:

http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/azor_ahai_reborn.html

The site in general is pretty good for GoT theorising.

I particularly like the stuff on Sandor, the old rogue.

 

[Disaster Button]

Also, does anyone else think the Red Priests are up to something weird? I find it hard to believe that Melisandre is that inaccurate with her visions and is so insistent on Stannis being Azor Ahai despite all the other evidence. Moqorro also claiming that Victarion Greyjoy has a special role to play in service to the Lord of Light is also weird. I can't help but feel that they're all orchestrating something big; the idea that they're just all wrong or following their own beliefs doesn't seem right for some reason. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it. The frequency of red comets is also interesting.

But we get a Mel, POV in Dance and she makes mistakes in that.
Although in that chapter we also have "I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow".

so there's that

This is true but for some reason I just find it hard to believe she's mistaken because I always get this feeling she has some secret plan she's obfuscating. I don't know, maybe I'm just going the wrong way, or maybe it's going to play into some everyone will see what they want to see scene which exlains why every Red Priest seems to have their own Azor Ahai.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Reading this thread has just reminded me how little I remember of the books... I didn't recognise the name at first.

 

[robotam]

This is true but for some reason I just find it hard to believe she's mistaken because I always get this feeling she has some secret plan she's obfuscating. I don't know, maybe I'm just going the wrong way, or maybe it's going to play into some everyone will see what they want to see scene which exlains why every Red Priest seems to have their own Azor Ahai.

But that's what she goes on about in her chapter. She tries to make herself seem mysterious and always acts like she's certain. Really I think the reason there are different Red Priests with different opinions, is because the prophecies are vague enough as to be interpreted as talking about numerous people, but these priests aren't aware of every single person the prophecies could be talking about. And from what we saw in house of the undying, visions are confusing.

 

[VladG]

It's clearly Danaerys Targaryen. Jon Snow is dead. Period. He's not coming back. No major characters are coming back. Even if he wasn't dead, his role would become much too important if he was Azor Ahai reborn and the commander of the night's watch, and it would also simplify the plot too much. There must be conflict between the 2 forces that stand against the Others (namely the Night's Watch and Azor Ahai)

Narrative causality is a very bad argument for Jon since Martin has worked hard to avoid it.

Also Jon is NOT the infant Targaryen (forgot the name, probably Aegon again) since he was revealed as a new character in the last book. He may however be the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar and if that's the case, he might just be part of the 3 headed dragon - read below.

Ygritte did not betray him, and he did not kill her.

Looking back at the prophecies and at what happens to Dany there is no doubt she's Azor Ahai.

She resurrected the dragons out of stone by sacrificing Khal Drogo (blood of a king) and Mirri Maz Dur (life for life, since Drogo was freshly dead) and weeping salt tears while shrouded in smoke and fire, her very survival a sign of mystic transformation - she is the only Targeryen so far to fully survive fire.

She is the blood of the Dragon (and remember dragons seem to be the opposite force of the White Walkers),


She was born on Dragonstone

Her distance from Westeros makes for better intrigue and conflict

Her "revival" into Azor Ahai has already happened at the birth of her dragons, while the Red Star was still visible, a major point in the prophecy, while Jon Snow's death happened after the Red Star is gone.

There is also a valid argument for Azor Ahai being reborn as 3 people - There are 2 living Targaryen children known of, and possibly Jon Snow

Dani's vision in the house of the undying revealed that the dragon must have 3 heads - Dani clearly one, Aegon VI (yay google) and through some shitty writing - Jon Snow

Personally I like the memento mori theme in the books, all characters are clearly mortal, even the plot-centric ones. Bringing back more characters from the dead would suck and would completely ruin the books. Catelyn is the acceptable exception - she is a secondary character and is resurrected as a completely different character - she is no longer a wife and mother (as far as she knows all her children are lost) but an avatar for vengeance.

 

[Disaster Button]

But that's what she goes on about in her chapter. She tries to make herself seem mysterious and always acts like she's certain. Really I think the reason there are different Red Priests with different opinions, is because the prophecies are vague enough as to be interpreted as talking about numerous people, but these priests aren't aware of every single person the prophecies could be talking about. And from what we saw in house of the undying, visions are confusing.

I'm going to have to go back and re-read that chapter. I wasn't at my best when I was reading it. But I imagined that's what was happening with all the prophecies, I think part of me was just getting carried away.

Spoiler: Spoilers for the end of A Dance With Dragons

Jon Snow is dead.

You might want to spoiler this in case anyone who hasn't read the ending sees this.

 

[VladG]

snip

You might want to spoiler this in case anyone who hasn't read the ending sees this.

The thread is marked as a spoiler thread. Everything here is some sort of spoiler. People either know what's going on (or want it spoiled) or they don't come in.

However I do agree the thread should be renamed to clearly indicate it's about Song of Ice and Fire.

 

[Disaster Button]

snip

You might want to spoiler this in case anyone who hasn't read the ending sees this.

The thread is marked as a spoiler thread. Everything here is some sort of spoiler. People either know what's going on (or want it spoiled) or they don't come in.

I know, and you'd think that'd be enough, but those reading the books might not be up to the point where they realise what Azor Ahai refers to. Just saying, I'd hate to blunder into a thread that spoiled key parts of a story I was reading.

 

[Wolf In A Bear Suit]

Being dead can only make Cat more interesting. She used to be as exciting as dry toast, but now she's as interesting as dry zombie toast

 

[robotam]

It's clearly Danaerys Targaryen. Jon Snow is dead. Period. He's not coming back. No major characters are coming back. Even if he wasn't dead, his role would become much too important if he was Azor Ahai reborn and the commander of the night's watch, and it would also simplify the plot too much. There must be conflict between the 2 forces that stand against the Others (namely the Night's Watch and Azor Ahai)

Narrative causality is a very bad argument for Jon since Martin has worked hard to avoid it.

Also Jon is NOT the infant Targaryen (forgot the name, probably Aegon again) since he was revealed as a new character in the last book. He may however be the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar and if that's the case, he might just be part of the 3 headed dragon - read below.

Ygritte did not betray him, and he did not kill her.

Looking back at the prophecies and at what happens to Dany there is no doubt she's Azor Ahai.

She resurrected the dragons out of stone by sacrificing Khal Drogo (blood of a king) and Mirri Maz Dur (life for life, since Drogo was freshly dead) and weeping salt tears while shrouded in smoke and fire, her very survival a sign of mystic transformation - she is the only Targeryen so far to fully survive fire.

She is the blood of the Dragon (and remember dragons seem to be the opposite force of the White Walkers),


She was born on Dragonstone

Her distance from Westeros makes for better intrigue and conflict

Her "revival" into Azor Ahai has already happened at the birth of her dragons, while the Red Star was still visible, a major point in the prophecy, while Jon Snow's death happened after the Red Star is gone.

There is also a valid argument for Azor Ahai being reborn as 3 people - There are 2 living Targaryen children known of, and possibly Jon Snow

Dani's vision in the house of the undying revealed that the dragon must have 3 heads - Dani clearly one, Aegon VI (yay google) and through some shitty writing - Jon Snow

Personally I like the memento mori theme in the books, all characters are clearly mortal, even the plot-centric ones. Bringing back more characters from the dead would suck and would completely ruin the books. Catelyn is the acceptable exception - she is a secondary character and is resurrected as a completely different character - she is no longer a wife and mother (as far as she knows all her children are lost) but an avatar for vengeance.

But Jon isn't confirmed dead. His last chapter in Dance Ends quite similarly to Asha's first in the book, in that some people (readers, not characters) thought she was dead, others that she past out. Jon's been wounded and very likely killed but it isn't confirmed yet.

As for Aegon IV, we don't even know if he's the real deal. Dany had a vision of a mummer's dragon, which could mean a fake Targaryen (although it could mean Varys's dragon). The fact is that even if Young Griff really is Aegon IV, they have no proof. They've got what, 1 exiled knight vouching for him (who, to be fair, does believe the kid is Aegon). Manderly made a big deal of Davos getting Rickon and his wolf, as proof.

Jon being dead would actually be pretty cool, but he won't be completely dead, remember the prologue to Dance. The skinchanger lives on as his wolf and the last thing Jon says is Ghost.

Honestly at the minute I don't know who Azor Ahai is (or even if it matters), Dany to me seems the most boring option (but also the simplest and very likely option). But if you look around online, you can find some pretty compelling theories for a few people being Azor Ahai.

That said, I'm pretty sure Danys the only one that's woke dragons

EDIT: And OP change the part in brackets of the title to say A song of Ice and Fire Spoilers. Ruining stuff's not nice

 

[Kathleen Forrest]

Check out MY theory: Jon's body will be taken to the storerooms under the wall to 'chill' during the chaos that ensues after his assassination and before his funeral pyre can be arranged, it is here that Melisandre will find him, give him the kiss of fire, causing him to be 'Reborn amidst smoke (sausages and smallgoods) and salt (beef)'. Ergo, Jon is Azor Ahai.