Poll: Bans on Circumcision?

[Boba Frag]

wow, the religion thing is nearly getting this thread out of hand...

Anyway, I respect the right of the Jewish community to engage in the practice- I understand it's done by someone who's been specially trained in the correct surgical techniques and a small amount of local anaesthetic can be used as well.

I'm not circumcised as I'm Catholic, although there's no prohibition on it in my religion, it's just not practised very much.

A non-Jewish friend of mine had the procedure done as a child, but for medical reasons.
Doesn't really seem to factor in daily life, so it's no big deal.

I think our attention should be directed towards people who practice it without the appropriate medical training or supervision.
There have been a few tragic cases in Dublin where a child has bled to death as a result of a botched circumcision as part of a non-Jewish ritual, amongst newly immigrant families originating from African nations.

Furthermore- female circumcision IS genital mutilation, and is utterly barbaric.
I don't have detailed reports or links to share, so I can't comment much on the matter, although it has cropped up in the Irish media on occasion that asylum seekers from war torn nations in Africa have claimed that such a fate awaits their daughters if they are deported.

 

[Korolev]

I don't think a child has the capacity to understand what a circumcision is. I know the parents have the best of intentions, and I also know that it rarely results in any real harm, but a principle's a principle - The only one who can morally modify a body is the person in that body AND NO ONE ELSE.

Exemptions should be given if a child is in danger of dying and needs surgery, but I've never heard of a case in which a person's life was saved by a circumcision.

 

[Lord_Panzer]

If you're worried about it, it can be reversed.

I'll let that little snippet sink in.

I'm guessing they don't keep your specific junk on ice in case you want it back later. Meaning...

*commence heebie-jeebies*

 

[Koroviev]

wow, the religion thing is nearly getting this thread out of hand...

Anyway, I respect the right of the Jewish community to engage in the practice- I understand it's done by someone who's been specially trained in the correct surgical techniques and a small amount of local anaesthetic can be used as well.

I'm not circumcised as I'm Catholic, although there's no prohibition on it in my religion, it's just not practised very much.

A non-Jewish friend of mine had the procedure done as a child, but for medical reasons.
Doesn't really seem to factor in daily life, so it's no big deal.

I think our attention should be directed towards people who practice it without the appropriate medical training or supervision.
There have been a few tragic cases in Dublin where a child has bled to death as a result of a botched circumcision as part of a non-Jewish ritual, amongst newly immigrant families originating from African nations.

Furthermore- female circumcision IS genital mutilation, and is utterly barbaric.
I don't have detailed reports or links to share, so I can't comment much on the matter, although it has cropped up in the Irish media on occasion that asylum seekers from war torn nations in Africa have claimed that such a fate awaits their daughters if they are deported.

I respect the right of parents to share and practice their faith with their children, but I think it crosses the line when they want to permanently alter their child for the sake of it. First, it is an appeal to tradition, which is a logical fallacy. I mean, think about it. What if I am part of some obscure religion that calls for Johnny's ears to be clipped at the top? I assure you that my religion has been around for at least 1000 years and I think he can clean less of an ear better. Does that seem like a good idea?

 

[Koroviev]

I don't think a child has the capacity to understand what a circumcision is. I know the parents have the best of intentions, and I also know that it rarely results in any real harm, but a principle's a principle - The only one who can morally modify a body is the person in that body AND NO ONE ELSE.

Exemptions should be given if a child is in danger of dying and needs surgery, but I've never heard of a case in which a person's life was saved by a circumcision.

As much as I agree with you, our viewpoint is still not fact. Stating it as though it were will only serve to fan the flames of an argument.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Female circumcision is illegal in the UK but male is not. I am not sure that I understand why. I have a real problem with people making that choice for their children without their consent and believe it should be banned. Other than for medical reasons, it should be an issue of choice for the individual.

Male circumcision is just the removal of the foreskin, but the female variety is the removal of the entire clitoris (sometimes even more).

I might be completely wrong about this, but by my recollection, religious (male) circumcisions were more about practicality rather than actual religion. Long ago when Jews and Moslims still lived in dry and sandy places, it made more sense to remove the foreskin because you would need a lot less water to wash your penis. They were desert dwellers after all.

From what I gather though, female circumcision was all about removing a woman's "sinfull" sexuality by cutting up her sexual organs completely. I don't know if Christians or Jews used to do this, but Moslims certainly did a lot of strict Moslims still do it.

 

[cobra_ky]

There was a Jewish doctor who was circumcising babies with his teeth (as part of a particular religious doctrine, I'm not saying all Jewish people do this. My reference is the book God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens so yes biased by this is not just some rumour) and this lead to some of the children catching Herpes, not the strictly true "herpes" which is transmitted through sexual intercourse but the type which normally forms cold sores on lips. Practises like this I say should go.

you've been misinformed. There is a practice known as metzitzah b'peh, or oral suction, in which the mohel sucks blood from the circumcision wound. Traditionally this was done as an attempt to avoid complications, but as you say this has been linked to the transmission of herpes. Only the most Orthodox Jews practiced this to begin with, and the ones that still do are advised to use a sterile glass tube.

the bottom line is that rabbis aren't going around biting the foreskins off of infants.

 

[Koroviev]

Female circumcision is illegal in the UK but male is not. I am not sure that I understand why. I have a real problem with people making that choice for their children without their consent and believe it should be banned. Other than for medical reasons, it should be an issue of choice for the individual.

Male circumcision is just the removal of the foreskin, but the female variety is the removal of the entire clitoris (sometimes even more).

I might be completely wrong about this, but by my recollection, religious (male) circumcisions were more about practicality rather than actual religion. Long ago when Jews and Moslims still lived in dry and sandy places, it made more sense to remove the foreskin because you would need a lot less water to wash your penis. They were desert dwellers after all.

From what I gather though, female circumcision was all about removing a woman's "sinfull" sexuality by cutting up her sexual organs completely. I don't know if Christians or Jews used to do this, but Moslims certainly did a lot of strict Moslims still do it.

Yes, most instances of female circumcision are a lot more damaging than those concerning males. That being said, I still disagree with the belief that parents have the right to alter their children for non-medical reasons. I don't think circumcision should be banned outright, of course. Adults should be allowed to do as they please with their own bodies, and circumcision does have valid medical applications.

 

[Prof.Wood]

Speaking as a man that had this surgery forced upon me for medical reasons, If people want this done to them its there choice.

 

[Koroviev]

There was a Jewish doctor who was circumcising babies with his teeth (as part of a particular religious doctrine, I'm not saying all Jewish people do this. My reference is the book God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens so yes biased by this is not just some rumour) and this lead to some of the children catching Herpes, not the strictly true "herpes" which is transmitted through sexual intercourse but the type which normally forms cold sores on lips. Practises like this I say should go.

you've been misinformed. There is a practice known as metzitzah b'peh, or oral suction, in which the mohel sucks blood from the circumcision wound. Traditionally this was done as an attempt to avoid complications, but as you say this has been linked to the transmission of herpes. Only the most Orthodox Jews practiced this to begin with, and the ones that still do are advised to use a sterile glass tube.

the bottom line is that rabbis aren't going around biting the foreskins off of infants.

Damn, I was looking forward to it! D:<

 

[Tanner The Monotone]

I don't think it should be banned, but I think it should be discouraged. There is no benefit. It's just more dollars in the hospital's pocket.

EDIT: Except for religious reasons, of course.

I think it also for hygene.

 

[Koroviev]

I don't think it should be banned, but I think it should be discouraged. There is no benefit. It's just more dollars in the hospital's pocket.

EDIT: Except for religious reasons, of course.

I think it also for hygene.

I think washing is a much less surgical alternative ;D

 

[Justank]

Anyone here have a circumcision later in life, like 25+? Or have a link to quotes from someone who has? I'm curious what someone in that position has to say about it. I was circumcised as a baby and quite frankly don't have any issues with it, I get plenty of pleasure despite not having a foreskin. I keep seeing people comment on 'calloused skin' but that is the exact opposite of mine, so I'm not sure where that is coming from.

 

[Jonabob87]

Every christian who gets a circumcision goes to hell. ENJOY THAT FACT. You think you know better then god? He made you in his own image and his image is not good enough for you? Haha, burn in your own hell.

That's an outright lie.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean maybe its because I'm circumcised, but I seriously can't understand why people are getting so upset. I mean you people are talking about walking around with "mutilated genitalia". What? I don't look down at my penis and go "Oh if only it wasn't crippled". It's totally fine, it just doesn't have some skin that other people's have. They don't clip off the head or something like that. Plus from what I know circumcision makes it easier to clean the thing. You guys with foreskins have to clean under if I'm correct (damn this conversation got weird fast, but we are talking about penises), which I don't. And the reason they do it so young is because the kid will never remember it. Yeah I imagine it hurts pretty bad, but that's all of a day or so and then everything's fine.

 

[mightybozz]

Genital mutilation and I consider that it is a crime to do it without valid medical grounds to anyone who does not or is incapable of consenting. Obviously this includes children, and I include children of religious parents in that.

Personally I think it's a bizarre idea. To show your devotion to God you're supposed to hack off bits of skin? From your penis? It's one of the most ridiculous ideas in the Bible. I am quite curious to know why it's really in there - did the ancient civilizations understand purported health benefits from it?

Anyway, uncircumcised and free. I bet the amount of men who chose to have it done are in a VERY small minority.

 

[JimmyC99]

To Ban something is to say that its wrong, many cultures have it as a symbolic thing, are these places saying that this part of their culture is wrong, and is it medically dangerous? (any more so then other surgery),if so then only on medical grounds could it be banned. painful surgery such as cosmetic liposuction happens daily but this still legal, things that cause massive bruising and pain like face lifts are legal, and claiming its because it around the genital area is a poor defence sex change ops are legal. I personally dislike cosmetic surgery it appeals to vanity and the vain but I wouldn't presume to ban it any of it unless it posed a significant medical risk.

 

[Numachuka]

I don't think it should be banned, but I think it should be discouraged. There is no benefit. It's just more dollars in the hospital's pocket.

EDIT: Except for religious reasons, of course.

I think it also for hygene.

I think washing is a much less surgical alternative ;D

I had to have it done for a medical issue.

 

[Koroviev]

Anyone here have a circumcision later in life, like 25+? Or have a link to quotes from someone who has? I'm curious what someone in that position has to say about it. I was circumcised as a baby and quite frankly don't have any issues with it, I get plenty of pleasure despite not having a foreskin. I keep seeing people comment on 'calloused skin' but that is the exact opposite of mine, so I'm not sure where that is coming from.

I apologize for this, I do need to provide a source. I recall it from a WHO pamphlet, and yes, I am aware of WHO's stance on male circumcision, at least as it concerns developing nations. I have a feeling I should have said scar tissue, but until I locate the source, you can disregard my comments.