Poll: Based on a true story. (Can it be done in a game?)

[Pat]

I've been wondering if and how you could make a video game based on real tragedies like 9/11 or the Holocaust without undermining the horror of it and without being disrespectful to the victims and their families.
Do you think its possible to tackle subjects like these head on without being distasteful? Lots of gamers and journalists claim that games could be a new art form but can this really be so if they're unable to address these issues authentically.

I've put up the poll but its quite a big question so I'd prefer to get a big long discussion going on.
Can't wait to hear what you think.

 

[GoaThief]

What type of game would work around 9/11 though?

It could be done I suppose, but aside from satire I think it would be best left alone for now.

 

[Zhukov]

Well, they could. They just probably won't.

Of course they'd just have to come up with something other than a Jewish super soldier running and gunning down the evil minions of Hitler to avenge the Holocaust.

 

[Auron225]

I'm sure its possible but no-one is going to. It's like agreeing to a bet of $20 that you can juggle live grenades - stupidly risky for little profit. Given the stance that non-gamers have of games; even if it does a great job at being respectful while portraying the horror - it's still not going to appeal to non-gamers because it's still a game. So it could only appeal to gamers and I'm not sure there is a big enough market for something as dark as that. Apocalypse stuff is fine when its 100% fiction.

I can't see any game devs thinking it's worth whatever profit they could get given the potentially catastrophic media carnage they would likely suffer. Even the concept to non-gamers would sound like this: "We are making 9/11 into a game".

 

[exxxed]

Definitely, but as long as the community is not open minded and unwilling to get out of their comfort zone it won't be possible outside of the indie section. As long as the term ''non-games'' floats around there's a lo-hohong way to go...

What type of game would work around 9/11 though?

Example:

It starts with the protagonist being introduced as a lovingly father/mother living in the suburbs, or whatever, being given a call to present themselves at the fire station for training, that's where the gameplay starts and subsequently the tutorial.

Then a few routine missions and something showing them interact with their family just enough for you to get the atmosphere before catastrophe hits and then you're forced to leave your family behind to go save people from the wreckage.

The gameplay could be like a third person action-adventure with platforming sections, but instead of shooting shit you have to survive inside one of the towers or the buildings near by, or all of them in turn.

It's possible, quite frankly gaming has much more potential at these things than the film industry, because it puts the player right in the middle of it, the only thing keeping us back is the general lack of maturity from both sides (devs and gamers) and the publishers profiting from this.

 

[Pat]

while gamers might see them as being a new form of art a large and very vocal chunk of the community still sees them as being toys, etc and things that arent serious. look at the outrage about 6 days at falujah and now imagine that a thousand fold for something on 9/11

Thanks, I've never heard of this game before. I'm looking it up now and from the sound of it this exactly the kind of game I'm talking about. It seems like it would have been realistic and respectful to the people that were there. Its a shame that the publishers pussied out of something like that. I'm sure it would have been a really important game. What I think it needs is to be something that's not about winning or losing or overcoming a challenge. That just trivializes the subject matter. Essentially it mustn't be fun to play. It should be as harrowing for the player as it is for the characters in the game.

 

[krazykidd]

Wait done we have a ton of games about the war on terrorist and WW2?

 

[RJ 17]

Wait done we have a ton of games about the war on terrorist and WW2?

I think he's referring specifically to the Holocaust. That is, the wholesale slaughter of millions of Jewish people.

OT: Sure it could be done, just as there's been movies done on horrifically tragic events. You just gotta think how a movie would do it and then make a game out of it.

I could see a 9/11 game featuring you as one of the first responders rushing into the towers and having to save as many people as you can before the towers collapse. For the Holocaust I'd imagine a stealth-based game in which you're trying to sneak out of a concentration camp.

 

[exxxed]

Wait done we have a ton of games about the war on terrorist and WW2?

Indeed, Brothers in Arms immediately sprang to mind, I definitely remember a snippet in the game manual saying something along the lines of ''inspired by true events''.

For the Holocaust I'd imagine a stealth-based game in which you're trying to sneak out of a concentration camp.

Indeed it could work, with a nice beefy conspiracy story behind it, maybe even played from different angles allowing you to control, in turn, all sorts of different protagonists, from the underground resistance members plotting against the regime, a conflicted torturer, a Jewish family member being imprisoned (or your family being taken from you and you have to break in to get them out, or infiltrate), all done in a mature fashion of course.

P.S.

Who the heck came up with this captcha crap with scribbled gibberish all over the broken words asking you to figure out what it says... waste of goddamned time...

 

[GoaThief]

Definitely, but as long as the community is not open minded and unwilling to get out of their comfort zone it won't be possible outside of the indie section. As long as the term ''non-games'' floats around there's a lo-hohong way to go...

What type of game would work around 9/11 though?

Example:

It starts with the protagonist being introduced as a lovingly father/mother living in the suburbs, or whatever, being given a call to present themselves at the fire station for training, that's where the gameplay starts and subsequently the tutorial.

Then a few routine missions and something showing them interact with their family just enough for you to get the atmosphere before catastrophe hits and then you're forced to leave your family behind to go save people from the wreckage.

The gameplay could be like a third person action-adventure with platforming sections, but instead of shooting shit you have to survive inside one of the towers or the buildings near by, or all of them in turn.

It's possible, quite frankly gaming has much more potential at these things than the film industry, because it puts the player right in the middle of it, the only thing keeping us back is the general lack of maturity from both sides (devs and gamers) and the publishers profiting from this.

That's a terrible example and the type of thing I had in mind when I said I'd prefer it left alone for now.

Why does it have to be about 9/11 and not firefighting in general which would also provide more flexibility and open up more varied gameplay elements? Essentially the game you described is exploiting a tragedy just to generate sales and interest. There is no other reason for it to concern that event, very exploitative and if a game treads there it had to have a valid reason.

 

[exxxed]

Definitely, but as long as the community is not open minded and unwilling to get out of their comfort zone it won't be possible outside of the indie section. As long as the term ''non-games'' floats around there's a lo-hohong way to go...

What type of game would work around 9/11 though?

Example:

It starts with the protagonist being introduced as a lovingly father/mother living in the suburbs, or whatever, being given a call to present themselves at the fire station for training, that's where the gameplay starts and subsequently the tutorial.

Then a few routine missions and something showing them interact with their family just enough for you to get the atmosphere before catastrophe hits and then you're forced to leave your family behind to go save people from the wreckage.

The gameplay could be like a third person action-adventure with platforming sections, but instead of shooting shit you have to survive inside one of the towers or the buildings near by, or all of them in turn.

It's possible, quite frankly gaming has much more potential at these things than the film industry, because it puts the player right in the middle of it, the only thing keeping us back is the general lack of maturity from both sides (devs and gamers) and the publishers profiting from this.

That's a terrible example and the type of thing I had in mind when I said I'd prefer it left alone for now.

Why does it have to be about 9/11 and not firefighting in general which would also provide more flexibility and open up more varied gameplay elements? Essentially the game you described is exploiting a tragedy just to generate sales and interest. There is no other reason for it to concern that event, very exploitative and if a game treads there it had to have a valid reason.

I see where you're coming from, I was a bit vague/simplistic in my description due to your apparently shallow question.

Let me elaborate, it could be inspired from the lives of one of the countless firefighters and rescue operatives who were involved back then, even volunteers, also the gameplay elements are not set in stone, I just couldn't define the gameplay in a broader manner than a third person action adventure with platforming segments.

Of course there could be dialogue, story elements in a more ''Telltale Games'' fashion, the thing is flexibility, it shouldn't be JUST one genre, because life in general is not defined by genres, here's a nice quote I read somewhere ''Games become harder when you have to maneuver a truck just to flip a switch.'', coming from that when you have to control the character to get the feel and tension of the situation I feel it's best handled in a third person action adventure with platforming sections manner (as in an over the shoulder dynamic camera that follows the controlled protagonist to give it a more ''I'm FUCKING THERE with the guy'' feeling, or full body awareness).

A problem with handling situations like this from a gameplay perspective is freedom, how much of it could you allow the player to have and how much would it ruin the overall impression of it.

In the end, the reason for it... well this here-in lies the problem, what would/should someone get out of this thing?

The feeling of tension?

The feeling of sacrifice so others can live?

Dedication to a cause?

I'm surely not the one qualified to answer these things, what I do know is that if you start from the premise of exploitation of others' misery you're doing it for a very wrong reason, which is another thing why this types of games are not possible in the AAA department (which is capable of delivering quality from a graphical/presentation standpoint) in this day and age, while the indie section might handle the story/gameplay elements well in a simplistic design which would ruin the appeal of the overall thing the uninitiated might garner.

The key to making games inspired by true events is realism (on all fields), in the politically correct madness that surrounds this medium it's basically impossible to get things moving that won't upset some sort of vocal crowd somewhere, even worse when it comes to exposure, it's not as simple as getting a camera and start filming then posting the film on youtube(or any other means) to get the desired exposure to fund your documentary further.

Cheers!

 

[Bug MuIdoon]

There's a game called 9.03m currently battling through Steam Greenlight. It's a game based around empathy towards the victims of Japan's 2011 Tsunami.

I own it after getting it in a recent game bundle but haven't played it yet, so I can't comment on if it's a good game or does justice to the subject matter.

 

[Zacharious-khan]

spec ops the line, have you ever played this game? more than potential it deals with some very hard decisions that were made in real life. I think there will always be people who think that games are disrespectful but more than likely they are old and don't understand

on an unrelated note Progressive insurance sucks

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I've been wondering if and how you could make a video game based on real tragedies like 9/11 or the Holocaust without undermining the horror of it and without being disrespectful to the victims and their families.
Do you think its possible to tackle subjects like these head on without being distasteful? Lots of gamers and journalists claim that games could be a new art form but can this really be so if they're unable to address these issues authentically.

I've put up the poll but its quite a big question so I'd prefer to get a big long discussion going on.
Can't wait to hear what you think.

I think video games have some of same restrictions that other modes of fictional storytelling do - fictionalizing real life events is tricky and has to be handled very very carefully or they turn out disrespectful. Like the Holocaust - there are some great books, fiction books, especially in the Young Adult subheading, that handle that topic, remaining historically accurate, but in a scaled-down manner. The story of one young girl or one family or maybe a town at the largest can offer perspective on a major historical event that is valuable and artistic, but still historically accurate and true. Taking on the whole event in fictionalized form though is severely problematic, because it has to be fictional enough to be "playable" or "relatable" but historically accurate enough not to offend - and the tricky bit there is that historically accurate is a moving target. There are multiple sides to history, multiple facets to be understood.

I think the best avenue that video games can take and still remain playable games that won't fall into those pitfalls is to create *similar* fictional events that play up *themes* of real life tragedies and offer those broad ideas up for examination rather than trying to import real life events directly and make them "playable" in game form.

Of course, the farther away we get from events, the easier it is to offer them more accurately, but I still think that the themes of things are almost more important than the actual events that took place for the future generations. I mean, things happen how they happened - if you study history you find that it is a complete mess of coincidences, convergences, and consequences. WHY a thing happens can sometimes offer so much more insight to an event than HOW it happens - and sometimes the opposite can be true as well.

Like, I would find a game that puts me as a plantation owner in the deep south to historically represent slavery in America as a potential powder-keg game, and wonder why it was being made, but plenty of games deal with the ideas of slavery - why it's f-ed up, how revolts happen, fighting for freedom, etc. etc. How many tyrannical dictators have we overthrown in RPGs and Shooters and every other genre? Plenty. Unjust wars against civilian populations - we got those too. It's better, to my mind, to use fiction and art to show the themes and the ideas and the motives that matter and then contextualize them - in a classroom perhaps, I'm working on being able to do that in my graduate studies - with real life historical events - to open up the discussion of "why are these similar" "what does this art say about the real" and so on.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

Well, Persona 4 masterfully tackled the topic of homosexuality and gender.
Spec Ops: The line have shown us what war really is about.
Persona 3 demonstrated how people coup with 7 stages of grief.
SO yeah, I do believe that sooner or later games will deal with more and more serious issues.

 

[flying_whimsy]

Yes, it can be done tastefully and with a measurable degree of accuracy...

BUT (of course there's a but) given how much trouble the industry has just in portraying women, I think any grand based-on-a-true-story ideas would be better off on the back burner until the industry matures a bit.

That's not to mention the inherent bias that comes with more serious topics that can only be offset through time and research; because of the appeal for to the youth market, games have to be even more cautious about being labeled propaganda than other media.

 

[Nokturos]

What type of game would work around 9/11 though?

Flight simulator, but with a twist.

 

[Yopaz]

Wait done we have a ton of games about the war on terrorist and WW2?

I think he's referring specifically to the Holocaust. That is, the wholesale slaughter of millions of Jewish people.

OT: Sure it could be done, just as there's been movies done on horrifically tragic events. You just gotta think how a movie would do it and then make a game out of it.

I could see a 9/11 game featuring you as one of the first responders rushing into the towers and having to save as many people as you can before the towers collapse. For the Holocaust I'd imagine a stealth-based game in which you're trying to sneak out of a concentration camp.

I was thinking a stealth based survival horror myself.

Honestly I think it could work, but not with how the game industry is right now. It hasn't grown up completely yet, it's still riding with its training wheels on. I know that I personally wouldn't want to play a game based on tragedy just like I don't like watching movies about tragedies. I want movies and games to be my happy place, where I get to enjoy a story with varying degree of realism, but always as a way of distancing myself from the horrors of the real world for a time. I don't mind sad, I do mind tragedy.