Poll: Battlestar ending - what do you think?

[Elim Garak]

They're "people", even the skinjobs. That's the POINT.

I wanted to watch a show where people (and robots) made tough decisions that weren't always right. Not everyone made rational decisions.

Why would I watch a show where everyone made sane rational decisions all the time? What would the conflict be?

Depends on the mistakes made. There are also misunderstandings. There are people that are just bad or evil or selfish. My problem is not the bad things that they did - it is the dumb and emotional things. Cut off your nose to spite your face type of thing.

Everyone is flawed, even the 'perfect' machines.

Yea, because the final 5 were dumb. Data was perfect. Spock was perfect. Hell, even Worf and Janeway were geniuses compared to these retards. 99% of the time they made rational decisions, no matter what their emotions told them. Basically, what I am saying is that they weren't ruled by the emotions.

For a less ideal example, everyone on Blake's 7 was rational (well, most of the time - and it has been a while). They had different priorities, different ideas about how to do things, but they were rational.

 

[Jimmyjames]

LOL - I hated the beginning and the end, and that made me want to NOT watch the middle.

That's my opinion - that those parts were dumb. From what I gathered about the middle, it was also dumb...

Lol, I understand, it just sounded funny. Like you were saying, "I didn't watch any of it but it was SUCKTACULAR".

 

[Antidamacus]

Depends on the mistakes made. There are also misunderstandings. There are people that are just bad or evil or selfish. My problem is not the bad things that they did - it is the dumb and emotional things. Cut off your nose to spite your face type of thing.

People do that all the time. Every day. Everyone does it to some extent.

If people didn't act irrationally in the last spaceships holding the human race with robots chasing them, and in the fleet, bent on killing them all, I'd be a little worried.

You seem to be upset that people placed in high stress situations make irrational choices. That's being human.

Yea, because the final 5 were dumb. Data was perfect. Spock was perfect. Hell, even Worf and Janeway were geniuses compared to these retards. 99% of the time they made rational decisions, no matter what their emotions told them. Basically, what I am saying is that they weren't ruled by the emotions.

People are ruled by their emotions. Data was not perfect. If Data was perfect, he wouldn't have grown, at all.

For a less ideal example, everyone on Blake's 7 was rational (well, most of the time - and it has been a while). They had different priorities, different ideas about how to do things, but they were rational.

I think you're glossing over tons of rational things people did on the show and fixating on the major arc of "religiousyness". If people acted the same way with no religious overtones, you wouldn't be having this argument.

 

[Elim Garak]

You seem to think that nobody passes on their knowledge to latter generations and that the humans are doomed to extinction.

Not in any systematic manner that will continue. They had no books. They had very small society. They had no technical base. Like I said, within a generation or two they would decivilize and melt into the basic hunter-gatherer tribes among which they live.

Even the most advanced of technologies can be built with only the most rudimentary of equipment.

LOL, not really. For most things you need a basic technical base to start from. You need to start somewhere. Remember that they had at most a few generations, and a very limited pool of labor and resources.

Your arguments are now getting pretty petty and pointless. Nitpicking the show into extinction does not make your points any more valid.

LOL, not really - on the contrary - you are now attacking me - or at least my arguments - instead of disproving them. :-D

I listed several things that I really disliked about the show - that's not nitpicking, because those things are quite large and obvious. They are key to the whole show plot-line.

 

[Elim Garak]

People do that all the time. Every day. Everyone does it to some extent.

Yup. And if they let those emotions affect anything significant, time and again - they are really dumb.

If people didn't act irrationally in the last spaceships holding the human race with robots chasing them, and in the fleet, bent on killing them all, I'd be a little worried.

You seem to be upset that people placed in high stress situations make irrational choices. That's being human.

Nope. I am upset because their choices are contrary to the wellbeing - both short and long term. They should be survivors, not melodrama queens.

People are ruled by their emotions. Data was not perfect. If Data was perfect, he wouldn't have grown, at all.

Depends on your definition of perfection. Mine is rationality. Data was rational, and always made rational decisions. So was Lore - he had emotions, but he also had plans and tactics that he did not throw away because. His motives and drives were not necessarily rational or good, but the decisions that he made based off of them were always geared towards his goals.

I think you're glossing over tons of rational things people did on the show and fixating on the major arc of "religiousyness". If people acted the same way with no religious overtones, you wouldn't be having this argument.

... Hmm... I don't think so. They abandoned all technology not because of religion - because of irrational ideas. The whole cylon war was not because of religion - it was because Cavil was a pissed off crybaby. Ellen behaved like a ***** not because she was rational - because she was emotional and a *****. All the mind-games that the cylons played with everybody? Not religious and not rational. Etc.

 

[Antidamacus]

Not in any systematic manner that will continue. They had no books. They had very small society. They had no technical base. Like I said, within a generation or two they would decivilize and melt into the basic hunter-gatherer tribes among which they live.

They can talk, they wear clothes many of them were very intelligent people. Somehow I don't see their kids being cavemen.

I'm sure you'll see things drop right away. Higher level maths and sciences. Histories are gonna get fuzzy. The Pilgrims didn't devolve into cavemen.

You seem to think these people couldn't control their kids, unless they had their spaceships with them.

 

[Elim Garak]

Lol, I understand, it just sounded funny. Like you were saying, "I didn't watch any of it but it was SUCKTACULAR".

Heh, no, I couldn't stand to watch it because the parts that I have seen were sucktacular. Which led me to extrapolate that the entire show was sucktacular. Basically not my thing.

 

[Elim Garak]

They can talk, they wear clothes many of them were very intelligent people. Somehow I don't see their kids being cavemen.

Cavemen weren't dumb (well, some cavemen). Members of primitive modern tribes are not dumb - they are just uneducated.

I'm sure you'll see things drop right away. Higher level maths and sciences. Histories are gonna get fuzzy. The Pilgrims didn't devolve into cavemen.

Pilgrims had support from the old world. Ships would come in periodically and bring in more people. Plus they showed up by the boatload - they weren't isolated groups of 10-15 people. Furthermore, they brought a lot of tools with them - not to mention the knowledge of how to use these tools and how to survive in primitive environments.

You seem to think these people couldn't control their kids, unless they had their spaceships with them.

Not control. Create a self-sustaining educational system. Each generation of kids would become progressively less educated - in effect, dumber. Until they evened out somewhere just above the level of the average caveman.

 

[matrix3509]

You seem to think that nobody passes on their knowledge to latter generations and that the humans are doomed to extinction.

Not in any systematic manner that will continue. They had no books. They had very small society. They had no technical base. Like I said, within a generation or two they would decivilize and melt into the basic hunter-gatherer tribes among which they live.

Even the most advanced of technologies can be built with only the most rudimentary of equipment.

LOL, not really. For most things you need a basic technical base to start from. You need to start somewhere. Remember that they had at most a few generations, and a very limited pool of labor and resources.

Your arguments are now getting pretty petty and pointless. Nitpicking the show into extinction does not make your points any more valid.

LOL, not really - on the contrary - you are now attacking me - or at least my arguments - instead of disproving them. :-D

I listed several things that I really disliked about the show - that's not nitpicking, because those things are quite large and obvious. They are key to the whole show plot-line.

Remember the first microscope? The first telescope? The first airplane?

All of these objects are incredibly simplistic and all of these things can by built from the objects I have lying around my house. Your suspension of disbelief seems all fucked up. If you can't get around these things, why did you watch it in the first place?

If you liked someone elses thoughts on how the show ended, then go make your own show, see how well it does.

You really made it clear that you pretty much hated the show from the beginning. That in itself I can understand (even respect, marginally), but then you came back? This proves you are disqualified in forming opinions about the show, as you didn't really even see it. Things like, "The characters are stupid because they made choices I wouldn't have made," have absolutely no bearing on a discussion about the merits/flaws of a subjective thing like a television show. Its like hating a painting because it uses a color you don't like.

Now, I am tired, I'm going to bed so I don't have to discuss this with someone who knows nothing about it.

On a side note, I would like to know where you get this idea that a culturally/socially advanced civilization would just utterly devolve. Its totally pointless conjecture, rooted in bullshit.

 

[Antidamacus]

Yup. And if they let those emotions affect anything significant, time and again - they are really dumb.

Then everyone is dumb. People do things that make them happy and avoid doing things that make them unhappy. I'll go so far as to say people ONLY do things due to their emotions.

Nope. I am upset because their choices are contrary to the wellbeing - both short and long term. They should be survivors, not melodrama queens.

People do that every day. People do things contrary to their wellbeing every day. They smoke, drink, eat too much, drive fast, text message while driving, listen to country music, don't exercise.

I don't know why it's so shocking that people in the future make the same whacked out decisions we've been making forever.

Depends on your definition of perfection. Mine is rationality. Data was rational, and always made rational decisions. So was Lore - he had emotions, but he also had plans and tactics that he did not throw away because. His motives and drives were not necessarily rational or good, but the decisions that he made based off of them were always geared towards his goals.

There was always a goal. Earth and finding out the Cylons if you're human. Killing humans if you're Cylon. Now that went out the window a while ago, but they had new goals.

You have people, with emotions, placed in a high stress area and they made decisions that emotional people in high stressed areas would make. It makes perfect sense.

If you took normal people, killed off a massive amount of humanity, put them in ships and had cylons chasing them and cylons in the fleet... and everyone acted like Data or Lore, it would be the dumbest show ever because there would be no conflict.

... Hmm... I don't think so. They abandoned all technology not because of religion - because of irrational ideas. The whole cylon war was not because of religion - it was because Cavil was a pissed off crybaby. Ellen behaved like a ***** not because she was rational - because she was emotional and a *****. All the mind-games that the cylons played with everybody? Not religious and not rational. Etc.

They abandoned objects. They probably hated the ships and everything in them. So when they landed on a new world, they ditched all the stuff they brought with them and went somewhere to make stuff that was theirs.

 

[Elim Garak]

Flora I get, but why wouldn't they know these other things? And how do you know what they took in the bags?

They didn't ditch everything, they were wearing clothes.

Diseases vary from area to area, from continent to continent. A ton of native Americans died from normal relatively mild European diseases - think what crap these guys from another planet have. Zero antibodies.

And they couldn't carry everything, every medicine for every eventuality. Pills would run out very quickly - then what?

As brain surgeons? Nobel Prize winning physicists? Absolutely.

Farmers? Bakers? Engineers?

Nope. You need a technical base or at least a relatively large labor pool in order to establish these things. And the knowledge of how to survive in a primitive environment. You think a starship captain will know how to be a blacksmith? That a physicist will know how to build a log cabin?

These skills and this knowledge are very hard to come by - even today. Most people don't know how to make steel. How to find iron ore. How to extract it. How to build a kiln. Etc.

But you bring up a point. If they bring their intergalactic spaceships and all their fancy do dads with them, are you implying it would last forever? Even with the actual things there, wouldn't they eventually forget it?

Not quite. The tools wouldn't last forever, but long enough for them to establish a self-sustaining technological base. They would not be able to build computers, but they would be able to build schools. A printing press for books. Sewage systems. They would be able to find sources of raw materials (or use the ships themselves) and use them to build simpler tools. Gunpowder and muzzle loaders. They should be able to use some parts to build electric generators.

If you don't trust these people to teach their grandkids anything, what good is having the objects there? They aren't going to know what to do with it.

Not enough for this to be sustainable. Here's what you need to build a society which can maintain its level:

1. Educated work force - needs to know how to do basic stuff.
2. Easy access to provisions - gives more time to build stuff.
3. Sufficient population to maintain an education level - if there are 10 people then they all should gather food - and who will teach the kids?
4. Technological base of some sort - not really required but helps. Depends on the level of society that you want to build.
5. Knowledge of how to build and use basic tools.

 

[Antidamacus]

Cavemen weren't dumb (well, some cavemen). Members of primitive modern tribes are not dumb - they are just uneducated.

150k years ago? Not really sure everyone will be playing the same game.

Ships would come in periodically and bring in more people. Plus they showed up by the boatload - they weren't isolated groups of 10-15 people. Furthermore, they brought a lot of tools with them - not to mention the knowledge of how to use these tools and how to survive in primitive environments.

You have no idea what tools they brought or who knew how to to make them or use them. If these people are so helpless, the tech wasn't going to save them.

What happens when they bring their fancy tech and it breaks and no one can fix it or replace it? They can't make new engines or TVs or cameras.

Not control. Create a self-sustaining educational system. Each generation of kids would become progressively less educated - in effect, dumber. Until they evened out somewhere just above the level of the average caveman.

Yes I would assume so. But that doesn't explain how keeping the spaceships there will make them smarter. Do kids learn math faster with a spaceship?

 

[Elim Garak]

Then everyone is dumb. People do things that make them happy and avoid doing things that make them unhappy. I'll go so far as to say people ONLY do things due to their emotions.

Yup, in real life not everyone is dumb. In the show they key characters are often dumb. As for happiness - you are right. The only question is how far ahead you look. Are you going to eat a pound of sugar right now, even though you know that your stomach will hurt tomorrow?

People do that every day. People do things contrary to their wellbeing every day. They smoke, drink, eat too much, drive fast, text message while driving, listen to country music, don't exercise.

I don't know why it's so shocking that people in the future make the same whacked out decisions we've been making forever.

... The level of their stupidity? While there is no qualitative difference between a child eating too much candy, there is a quantitative difference. At some point you have realize that something that may make you feel good right now is a bad thing for you in the future. Or is irrational and that the small pleasure you get today will not make up for the negative aspects.

There was always a goal. Earth and finding out the Cylons if you're human. Killing humans if you're Cylon. Now that went out the window a while ago, but they had new goals.

Their short-term goals too often override their long-term goals. Plus their actions are not beneficial to their goals. That's the problem - that's why I say they do not act rationally.

You have people, with emotions, placed in a high stress area and they made decisions that emotional people in high stressed areas would make. It makes perfect sense.

If you took normal people, killed off a massive amount of humanity, put them in ships and had cylons chasing them and cylons in the fleet... and everyone acted like Data or Lore, it would be the dumbest show ever because there would be no conflict.

I am not saying they should act like Data. Like Lore would be nice, though. Lore was rational - he was also emotional, but he never acted against his own interests.

They abandoned objects. They probably hated the ships and everything in them. So when they landed on a new world, they ditched all the stuff they brought with them and went somewhere to make stuff that was theirs.

Yup. Like I said - crazy, dumb, irrational. If you live on the north pole, you may hate the heavy clothes that you need to wear. But you don't become a nudist and burn all the clothes as soon as you move to Alaska.

 

[Antidamacus]

Diseases vary from area to area, from continent to continent. A ton of native Americans died from normal relatively mild European diseases - think what crap these guys from another planet have. Zero antibodies.

Then obviously anything they brought with them would be completely useless for diseases?

And they couldn't carry everything, every medicine for every eventuality. Pills would run out very quickly - then what?

The people who need the pills to live die. Or are you saying the fleet had some kind of magic pill making machine to deal with these new and unknown diseases?

Nope. You need a technical base or at least a relatively large labor pool in order to establish these things.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with leaving their tech behind. Did the fleet have manuals on every single occupation and tool and how to make it?

And the knowledge of how to survive in a primitive environment.

People do that now all the time.

You think a starship captain will know how to be a blacksmith? That a physicist will know how to build a log cabin?


These skills and this knowledge are very hard to come by - even today. Most people don't know how to make steel. How to find iron ore. How to extract it. How to build a kiln. Etc.

How would keeping their tech help with these issues? You're doing a good job of explaining how things would eventually die out but now a good one of explaining how staying with the fleet would solve these problems.

Not quite. The tools wouldn't last forever, but long enough for them to establish a self-sustaining technological base.

They have one, it's just obviously much slower.

They would not be able to build computers, but they would be able to build schools.

If not for the giant spaceships, none of the 38,000 who I'm almost positive went to school would have any idea how to make one.

A printing press for books.

I'm sure they kick themselves every time they think about how they left the printing press on one of the ships. None of them could have ever figured out movable printed type without a prototype there.

Sewage systems.

I don't think they'll need many sewer systems for 38,000 people spread across the globe.

They would be able to find sources of raw materials (or use the ships themselves) and use them to build simpler tools. Gunpowder and muzzle loaders. They should be able to use some parts to build electric generators.

If they can make base tools, and already have learned knowledge of more advanced tools, what's the worry?

Generators? How do they make wires? Plastic? They didn't bring the tools to make these things with them. I don't know why you think they have the how to books on all this stuff just lying around.

 

[McClaud]

Wow.

Uh, while religion played a part in the show, it wasn't all the show was about.

And most of the time, they didn't make overly stupid choices. They made flawed choices when faced with situations they had never encountered before, or when tension was running incredibly high. Or when emotions took over because something really emotional just happened.

I mean, you have to look at the basic premise of the entire show:

Spoiler

1. The society advances to a point where they get decadent and forget lessons of the past.
2. They build an AI that comes around and bites them in the ass for them not learning from the past.
3. Forced into space, always fleeing from the enemy who wants to kill them all, never having lived in conditions like this, because before, their society was pretty cushy.
4. Emotions often ran high because people were constantly under stress. Some wanted to be in charge, because they thought they knew best. Some wanted to find somewhere to live, because 90% of them hated living in space. And resources were always stretched thin.
5. When they finally find the mythical Earth of legend, we blew ourselves up. Which is actually ironic. Since our society lives on the edge now. That felt real.
6. They find out things that show them that everytime their society reaches a certain point in its growth, they have forgotten the past and fall back into a cycle of destruction.
7. Finally, they decide to try it another way to break their cycle.

I also don't see them de-evolving into cavemen. If you knew anything about the show by watching it, they already passed their skills down father to son, mother to daughter when they were forced into exodus.

I mean, I dislike TOS BSG because it was never realistic. It was always campy. ALWAYS. They lived in a virtual utopia in space, and the Cylons they were fighting were horrible. How did those Cylon Centurions manage to drive humaniity into space if they couldn't hit a single Viper with nine Raiders? And why were the survivors looking for Earth when living in space was a virtual utopia? And the actors on TOS were the worst. There's only one role that Lorne Green should ever play - Ben Cartwright. The "never emotional" Adama was horrible.

And the old show was filled with religious symbolism and doctrine. The ships and people are named after Greek gods, their plight and actions reflect the Mormons, and they play sports and have teams named after Egyptian highly religious pharoahs. The writer wanted the entire thing to be a reflection of the morality of humanity by faith. As Adama says in the fourth episode of the season - "We live by our faith, we die by our faith." Maybe it wasn't super obvious, but it was still largely present in classic BSG.

 

[Antidamacus]

Yup, in real life not everyone is dumb. In the show they key characters are often dumb. As for happiness - you are right. The only question is how far ahead you look. Are you going to eat a pound of sugar right now, even though you know that your stomach will hurt tomorrow?

I won't, but someone will. And you're nuts if you think some guy right now isn't going "hold my beer I wanna show you something"

... The level of their stupidity? While there is no qualitative difference between a child eating too much candy, there is a quantitative difference. At some point you have realize that something that may make you feel good right now is a bad thing for you in the future. Or is irrational and that the small pleasure you get today will not make up for the negative aspects.

An example please? I can with almost certainty say that anything you say be given an entirely plausible explanation in a few short words.

Their short-term goals too often override their long-term goals. Plus their actions are not beneficial to their goals. That's the problem - that's why I say they do not act rationally.

People head for short term rewards ignoring, and often contradicting, long term goals? That's every person on the planet.

Unless you can tell me how arguing with me about this advances your long term goals, you're dong it too.

I am not saying they should act like Data. Like Lore would be nice, though. Lore was rational - he was also emotional, but he never acted against his own interests.

Which is not normal. People act against their own interests all the time. Why do I have to explain to you that people act in the show like people act now and have acted forever.

People don't always make the best decisions, sometimes they make the worst. Why does this shock you?

Yup. Like I said - crazy, dumb, irrational. If you live on the north pole, you may hate the heavy clothes that you need to wear. But you don't become a nudist and burn all the clothes as soon as you move to Alaska.

Leaving the ships didn't kill them.

They don't need spaceships or faster than light stuff or computers.

You seem to think they made the wrong decision. If they were tired of the crap and wanted to start off on their own, let em go.

 

[Elim Garak]

150k years ago? Not really sure everyone will be playing the same game.

Hard to say - this is more of an evolutionary question than anything else. And besides the point.

You have no idea what tools they brought or who knew how to to make them or use them.

I saw how much they carried when they walked in separate directions. Very little.

If these people are so helpless, the tech wasn't going to save them.

What happens when they bring their fancy tech and it breaks and no one can fix it or replace it? They can't make new engines or TVs or cameras.

Dude, seriously? It is a very simple concept. While they can't replace things, they can use what they have to build simpler tools that can be maintained.

If you have no tools, how do you make a hammer? You need to do the following:
1. Find rich iron ore somehow.
2. Collect enough of it.
3. Build a fire hot enough to melt the iron.
4. Get a couple of rocks and pound the iron ingots between them to make bigger pieces of iron.
5. Go to step 4.
6. After you have enough metal, hammer it with rocks until you have something large enough.
7. Find rope to tie the misshapen lump of iron to a stick.

Total time - at least a couple of weeks - and that's if you know where the iron ore is already.

If you have a forge, a hammer, and a wheelbarrow and know where there is iron ore, how do you make a hammer?
1. Collect enough of the iron ore with the wheelbarrow.
2. Put ore in the forge and pump it up to make things hot enough to melt the iron.
3. Use the other hammer to beat the iron ingots into shape.
4. Find a stick for the hammer.
Total time - 2-3 days.

And they can build a forge and a hammer quite easily using the equipment they have. They can't replace the equipment - but they can build a self-sustaining technological base.

Yes I would assume so. But that doesn't explain how keeping the spaceships there will make them smarter. Do kids learn math faster with a spaceship?

Yup. Duuuh. The kids have a roof over their heads, and the parents have the tools they need to gather food quickly. The kids can spend the time studying - and have books to study from, etc. The adults also have enough of a labor force to assign one of them to teaching the kids, instead of all of them looking for berries.

There is a reason why science started to advance in the western world only after there was a middle class that didn't have to spend their entire time on farming.

 

[Elim Garak]

Uh, while religion played a part in the show, it wasn't all the show was about.

I know that - it just really grated on me.

And most of the time, they didn't make overly stupid choices. They made flawed choices when faced with situations they had never encountered before, or when tension was running incredibly high. Or when emotions took over because something really emotional just happened.

True - but they did it enough to bother me. Perhaps it is my memory - but the decision to abandon tech really pissed me off.

I also don't see them de-evolving into cavemen. If you knew anything about the show by watching it, they already passed their skills down father to son, mother to daughter when they were forced into exodus.

Skills on how to build a smithy? How to do the whole animal husbandry? The problem is that there aren't enough of them in any group to sustain the knowledge (not to mention a genetically diverse population). When kids are surrounded by other dumb kids, they also become dumb, by osmosis. Because they don't want to study.

I mean, I dislike TOS BSG because it was never realistic.

LOL, TOS - I think I completely misunderstood some arguments in this thread. TOS to me means Trek Original Series - the 1966 to 1969 Star Trek show. I've watched a few reruns of the original BSG, but never got into them - you are right, it was really campy and weird.

 

[Antidamacus]

I saw how much they carried when they walked in separate directions. Very little.

For what? A hammer, a wrench, some pliers? Scissors? A saw?

No power tools. So all hand tools and mostly simple tools and maybe a few to perform maintenance on some electronics or something.

I'm sure they did what almost everyone does who can't haul or doesn't have larger tools. They brought smaller tools to make bigger tools.

Dude, seriously? It is a very simple concept. While they can't replace things, they can use what they have to build simpler tools that can be maintained.

If you have no tools, how do you make a hammer? You need to do the following:
1. Find rich iron ore somehow.
2. Collect enough of it.
3. Build a fire hot enough to melt the iron.
4. Get a couple of rocks and pound the iron ingots between them to make bigger pieces of iron.
5. Go to step 4.
6. After you have enough metal, hammer it with rocks until you have something large enough.
7. Find rope to tie the misshapen lump of iron to a stick.

Total time - at least a couple of weeks - and that's if you know where the iron ore is already.

If you have a forge, a hammer, and a wheelbarrow and know where there is iron ore, how do you make a hammer?
1. Collect enough of the iron ore with the wheelbarrow.
2. Put ore in the forge and pump it up to make things hot enough to melt the iron.
3. Use the other hammer to beat the iron ingots into shape.
4. Find a stick for the hammer.
Total time - 2-3 days.

And they can build a forge and a hammer quite easily using the equipment they have. They can't replace the equipment - but they can build a self-sustaining technological base.

Which brings me back to my point. The stuff on the ships won't help them build a hammer.

The entire process you just mentioned would in no way have anything to do with the tech they would have ditched on the ships.

I don't think they had ironworks on the ships, or even the directions on how to make them. These were just ships that happened to be in space at the time, not floating libraries.

Yup. Duuuh. The kids have a roof over their heads, and the parents have the tools they need to gather food quickly.

I think houses would be the first things the people would make. Wait, second. I think food would be first.

Like they're going to sit outside and starve and say "Man, if only we had a house"

The kids can spend the time studying - and have books to study from, etc. The adults also have enough of a labor force to assign one of them to teaching the kids, instead of all of them looking for berries.

You're assuming they have books for everyone on every subject. As well as the means to make new books when those get bad.

There is a reason why science started to advance in the western world only after there was a middle class that didn't have to spend their entire time on farming.

Welcome to the point of the show.

 

[McClaud]

It was my understanding that they only abandoned the most advanced tech. The parts that had made them decadent in the first place - computers for example. Starships run by the technology that made them lazy and complacent in the first place.

I'm sure they went back to an early medieval style type of life. There was nothing wrong with living that way when we did it - except we allowed monarchies to run civilizations into the ground. The point of their story is that they always fell to violence because they advanced their technology at such a rapid pace that they built machines that killed them every 25k years.

It's science fiction for a reason. I've read plenty of successful sci-fi stories that are anti-tech in the end. And within the context of their story, it makes sense. Within the context of BSG, going too far too fast kills.

And my original beef with your thread was that when I looked at it, all you had were negative choices based on your bias of the show.