Poll: Bayonetta

[ThatOtherGirl]

I think there is a lot of reactionism going on around the character. People criticize the character without bothering to do a deeper read because she looks sexist on the surface, and people fight back against that by claiming not only is she not sexist, she is actually super feminist!

I think the truth might be that she is just a character in a game. Overt sexual content is not inherently sexist, and just because Bayonetta is a badass doesn't mean she is actually a "strong" female character. It can be hard to actually tell where sexism and feminism start and end.

Here is the determining thing for me personally. When I play Bayonetta I feel good as a woman. I find her to be an uplifting female character. I can't quantify it, I can't really give you reasons, and I certainly wouldn't expect or insist that everyone else feel the same way. I play Bayonetta and I usually walk away feeling good about myself as a woman. There are very few characters that do that for me, and even fewer are highly sexualized. I honestly can't think of any other highly sexualized female characters like that off the top of my head, but a couple probably do exist. So I guess for me she is feminist?

Spoiler

Also, she isn't a single mom. The little girl is actually young Bayonetta, and she mistakes herself as her mom. There is a kind of time loop thing going on. Which is, in my opinion, one of the biggest missed opportunities ever. Bayonetta's interactions with Cereza are easily her best character moments.

 

[FPLOON]

Is Vin Diesel a person of color? I can never tell if he's white, hispanic or something else.

He's Reddick... Enough said...

OT: Bayonetta is... mother fucking BAYONETTA! You just don't question it as she shoots swiss out of you before some hair-raising torture of the insanity degree...

Other than that, the real question here is does she look better with short or long hair... I say "a mouthful", but that's another story...

 

[Something Amyss]

Bayonetta is equal parts amusing and cringeworthy, I'll give her that. But she's built around fanservice and blatantly so. A lot of people seem to conflate "sexist" with "can't enjoy," and that seems to be a lot of the defense for her.

 

[votemarvel]

I'm the only person it seems who hated Bayonetta. To me it was more like a memory game with how you had to try and remember an insane amount of button presses for the combos. It was brain training or falling back on a small handful of moves.

Hopefully she is easier to play as in Smash Bros.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm the only person it seems who hated Bayonetta. To me it was more like a memory game with how you had to try and remember an insane amount of button presses for the combos. It was brain training or falling back on a small handful of moves.

Hopefully she is easier to play as in Smash Bros.

I got to a point in the game where basically, I just couldn't be arsed more or less for those reasons.

I had a lot of fun with Devil May Cry when it first dropped. It's possible I'm just a different person now.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

Is Vin Diesel a person of color? I can never tell if he's white, hispanic or something else.

He's Reddick... Enough said...

OT: Bayonetta is... mother fucking BAYONETTA! You just don't question it as she shoots swiss out of you before some hair-raising torture of the insanity degree...

Other than that, the real question here is does she look better with short or long hair... I say "a mouthful", but that's another story...

My vote is for long hair for sure. Me and my wife both agree, and her game 1 outfit is hotter too. Bayonetta 2 has better alt costumes though (including her Bayonetta 1 look, so best of both worlds there.)

 

[Spider RedNight]

I picked the absurd answer because she's both. She's sexist and feminist because the game is completely over-the-top and very aware of itself and Bayonetta herself both owns it and doesn't mind so I dunno why it would be an issue.

Yes, she's sexual but she has a lot of character besides that.

Also yes I agree, there needs to be more Bayonetta/Cereza interaction because that shit's adorable.

 

[Souplex]

Hopefully she is easier to play as in Smash Bros.

She's ...Interesting in Smash.
after all of her A moves you can hold the button for a few seconds to make her shoot her guns for some extra oomph.
Her recovery is terrible, but you can chain her (Up B) into her (Side B) under conditions I don't comprehend.
Her (Neutral B) is a rapid-fire ranged attack that has a weird angle which allows you to hit enemies on slightly elevated platforms, but makes it useless against shorter characters on level ground.
She's much more interesting than Corrin who severely disappoints me.

 

[SmallHatLogan]

Within the context of the universe and her characterisation I'd say she's totally a sex positive feminist. In the context of the real world where she was designed to be titillating (I love that world) then it's hard to call her a feminist icon.

Sexist of feminist? I don't know. Both. Neither.

 

[Souplex]

Other than that, the real question here is does she look better with short or long hair... I say "a mouthful", but that's another story...

I vote short hair, because I always think shorter hair looks better on women. Although I also think really long ponytails are nice.

 

[EyeReaper]

I wouldn't call her very feminist, per se. But she also isn't presenting harmful ideas about women, so not sexist either.

Not that it's impossible to be both sexist and feminist, in fact, it's incredibly easy. #KILLALLMEN

Call me the most boring alignment, I'm going true neutral on this.

 

[CaitSeith]

How about: she's a cool looking character, with over-the-top moves, interesting backstory and a well defined personality.

 

[CaitSeith]

Bayonetta is equal parts amusing and cringeworthy, I'll give her that. But she's built around fanservice and blatantly so. A lot of people seem to conflate "sexist" with "can't enjoy," and that seems to be a lot of the defense for her.

That's true. But also it seems a lot of people like to throw the word "objectification" (as if it was a synonymous of "sexist"). She's not. Princess Peach is more "objectified" than Bayonetta for a number of reasons.

 

[Silvanus]

How about: she's a cool looking character, with over-the-top moves, interesting backstory and a well defined personality.

Sure, but that doesn't really answer the question. It answers a different, unrelated question.

People seem to be under the impression that considering a character sexist and/or feminist means at the exclusion of other traits, such as a well-developed personality, etcetera. No reason at all for that to be true. It's merely one element.

On a side-note, I also wonder whether those saying they "play games, don't analyse them" would give a similar response in English class, or film studies. The teacher asks you whether you consider Shylock to be a comic villain or a tragic victim; would you answer, "Hah! I read books, don't analyse them"?

 

[Something Amyss]

On a side-note, I also wonder whether those saying they "play games, don't analyse them" would give a similar response in English class, or film studies. The teacher asks you whether you consider Shylock to be a comic villain or a tragic victim; would you answer, "Hah! I read books, don't analyse them"?

I thought we'd firmly established that games were not art. As such, it makes sense to thumb our noses at such concepts as critical analysis.

 

[Silvanus]

I thought we'd firmly established that games were not art. As such, it makes sense to thumb our noses at such concepts as critical analysis.

Well, do we really want to make our offspring attend yet another arts class in secondary school?

Y'know, it's just occurred to me that Shylock is a brilliant example, actually. Like "Sexist" and "Feminist", the "comic villain" and "tragic victim" would be two ostensibly diametrically-opposed characters, both embodied in a single personage!

Could this really be... the single greatest example of giving a debate too much credit?!

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

I'm pretty sure there's literaly zero subjectivity here, personality defines a character, if a character has no personality then it is no longer a character but a walking plot point *cough*Rey*cough*.

"Literally zero"? Huh...

What I quoted was: "the best characters are the ones with personalities" - there is nothing objective, at all, about that sentence or idea given "best" is a subjective value judgement anyway, and what counts as a 'personality' would also be massively subjective (likely both in definition and usage).

The original post was also seemingly couched in conspiracy theory/cultural Marxism fluff, so it was on shaking ground already.

/edit

On a side-note, I also wonder whether those saying they "play games, don't analyse them" would give a similar response in English class, or film studies. The teacher asks you whether you consider Shylock to be a comic villain or a tragic victim; would you answer, "Hah! I read books, don't analyse them"?

Heh, I was just looking at how many people voted in the 'derp! entertainment not thinking!' category, and yeah, you make a fine comparison. I mean, it's not like we've had centuries upon centuries of analysis of all kinds of creative mediums or anything...

 

[CaitSeith]

How about: she's a cool looking character, with over-the-top moves, interesting backstory and a well defined personality.

Sure, but that doesn't really answer the question. It answers a different, unrelated question.

People seem to be under the impression that considering a character sexist and/or feminist means at the exclusion of other traits, such as a well-developed personality, etcetera. No reason at all for that to be true. It's merely one element.

On a side-note, I also wonder whether those saying they "play games, don't analyse them" would give a similar response in English class, or film studies. The teacher asks you whether you consider Shylock to be a comic villain or a tragic victim; would you answer, "Hah! I read books, don't analyse them"?

That's because I don't agree with the options the OP has. My answer is: there are more interesting things to analyze in her than the degree of sexism/feminism; and none of them are in the poll.