Poll: Better symbol of internet anonymity, Guy Fawkes or Laughing Man

[MoltenSilver]

Laughing Man, just by process of elimination since I strongly dislike the Guy Fawkes mask as a symbol (yes yes I know V for Vendetta but I don't feel that's enough to shirk its original symbolism). To quote Cracked:

"They've forgotten what those intentions were. Fawkes wasn't trying to destroy an evil theocracy, he was trying to install one. Fawkes was a fighter for Spain and the Catholic Church. His goal was to end the slightly more egalitarian Protestant revolution in England by restoring Catholic domination. If the Gunpowder Plot had actually succeeded, Britain would probably look less like an anarchist commune and more like the fascist police state Alan Moore warned us about."

A tad hyperbolic and speculative, but nonetheless

 

[Hero in a half shell]

No, it was long, long before that he became popular as an ironic symbol of rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_Plot_in_popular_culture

For a given value of popular, yes. I'd still say it's due to the movie (and to an extent, the comic) that you see it so much nowdays.

Internationally yes, the V for Vendetta movie is probably the most responsible for informing the rest of the world about the gunpowder plot and Guy Fawkes existence, but in the UK pretty much literally every schoolchild is taught about Guy Fawkes on the 5th November, and the rhyme, and I mean pretty much every child in every primary school is taught about it, and has been ever since the man himself was burned. It's been common knowledge in the British Isles since before the movies, but when you consider knowledge worldwide of Guy Fawkes and on the internet I would say that V for Vendetta is probably the biggest influence.

 

[09philj]

I'd like to contribute an alternative. No political connotations, no underlying symbolism. Just hidden identity:

Spoiler

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Che Guevara, or Guy Fawkes, ceased to be a man long ago and has instead become a symbol.

Things take on new meanings all the time, it's perfectly normal.

True, but sometimes it's good (or at least funny) to look back at the original meaning behind the symbol.

And besides, one day I want to make a T-shirt that says "Che Guevara would put a bullet in your head for wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt".

 

[Cryselle]

I'm on board with the Laughing Man. Possibly because I really like GitS, but also because I REALLY hate Fawkes. The guy was literally a terrorist attempting to take down a free society and install religious rule. He is the exact same as picking Osama Bin Laden as your symbol.

 

[shadoe14]

I like the Fawkes mask because Internet anonymity is used for both good and evil, as well as anything and everything in-between. And, of course, one person's idea of heroic Internet vigilantism is inevitably someone else's idea of pointless trolling. If not outright terrorism!

Guy Fawkes himself is the ideal poster boy for this concept because he was both a selfless hero, a ruthless villain, and just some mindless terrorist - all at the same time! It simply depends on where - if anywhere - you stand on the idea of getting a new government into power by blowing up the existing one.

To those who celebrate Guy Fawkes Night: Can you ever really be sure that the person next to you wants to parade that effigy down the street for the same reason that YOU do?

That's the beauty of it.

^I would have to agree with this.

As busterkeatonrules said, Internet Anonymity can be used for good or evil. I believe that the Fawkes mask better represents this as Fawkes himself and V (Who many people here in the States associate with the mask) both are often seen as either a hero or a villain.

On the other hand the Laughing man seems to be solely representative of the good side of anonymity, and while the good side is obviously better, I don't think it represents internet anonymity as a whole quite as well.

(NOTE* I never actually heard of Laughing Man before seeing this thread, thus my knowledge of him is solely based on a quick internet search. If I am wrong in my assumption that he is solely a good guy please feel free to correct me.)

 

[Zontar]

(NOTE* I never actually heard of Laughing Man before seeing this thread, thus my knowledge of him is solely based on a quick internet search. If I am wrong in my assumption that he is solely a good guy please feel free to correct me.)

The actual man behind the mask who is the driving force of the plot is good, but there are quite a few people who used the symbol in the story for their own ends (one person used it to steal money, which, after he got caught, was the reason he was rejected as being the original one, as his actions conflicted too much with the one they where looking for)

 

[Silvanus]

I'm on board with the Laughing Man. Possibly because I really like GitS, but also because I REALLY hate Fawkes. The guy was literally a terrorist attempting to take down a free society and install religious rule.

Well, yes to the latter, no to the former. Society was not free (religiously or politically) under King James in the least.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

They're both kinda dicks.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Whenever I see anything about the group Anonymous, I just cringe because of their Guy Fawkes masks. It makes them seem like a bunch of kids who have weird power fantasies about being V.

Instead of having anonymity tied to popular culture, I think the symbol should just be a blank, featureless face.

 

[Kolby Jack]

I thought Guy Fawkes masks where the de facto symbol already?

Never seen this Laughing Man symbol before, but I can't say I like it.
The Guy Fawkes mask is already iconic.

They are using an image from an adaptation of someone co-opting a real person. Reminds me of people wearing Che Guevara shirts without knowing anything about the actual Ernesto Guevara.

Don't really see the problem with this.
The symbol is far greater than the man, and that is what matters.

Che Guevara, or Guy Fawkes, ceased to be a man long ago and has instead become a symbol.

Things take on new meanings all the time, it's perfectly normal.

I don't know if I'd call them symbols. Symbols imply they've come to mean something. Neither person has come to mean anything more than a T-shirt design or a series of online pranks. Unless you mean to say they symbolize impotence, naivety, and a lack of understanding. In which case I agree.

I don't really believe in symbols. Most of the time they're just used to show what cause you wear on your sleeve for the world to see.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'm on board with the Laughing Man. Possibly because I really like GitS, but also because I REALLY hate Fawkes. The guy was literally a terrorist attempting to take down a free society and install religious rule. He is the exact same as picking Osama Bin Laden as your symbol.

Give it a couple of hundred years and I'd not be surprised. People currently glorify pirates and vampires after all

 

[Rastrelly]

I don't know why GF masks got that popular - he and a small coup he was a part of failed miserably, and GF even became the source of intel on his co-conspirators. And LM in-universe actually WON several times. So, LM for me.

 

[Zontar]

I don't know why GF masks got that popular - he and a small coup he was a part of failed miserably, and GF even became the source of intel on his co-conspirators. And LM in-universe actually WON several times. So, LM for me.

Spoiler

He didn't just win several times, he won period. LM wasn't trying to take down the system or destroy the police, he was trying to expose corruption and take down several very specific individuals for their crimes, and had the same legal system which was chasing after him to turn on those trying to cover everything up.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Neither, because I don't really think either of them represent anonymity in any of their significant incarnations. Laughing Man is literally a stand alone complex, that's where the title comes from. His goals are not about anonymity, they are in fact about exposing the truth. A good symbol for a whistleblower, but not internet anonymity. Guy Fawkes the historical figure is irrelevant to anonymity, and V is all about anarchy. The only reason either is a symbol for anonymity is that they are both masks, and if that's the only criteria we're going by, then why not just make Batman you symbol?

 

[Legion]

Guy Fawkes, because the last thing I want Ghost in the Shell associated with is something like Anonymous.

 

[Laughing Man]

Neither, it shows a stunning lack of creative vision if your group is required to co-op the symbology of popular media to make your point more valid. Guy Fawkes is a comical one since it only became a popular symbol once V was released up until that point Guy Fawkes was a guy who failed miserably to complete his mission and in the end turned on his fellow conspirators to try and save his own ass (mind you I would imagine that a fitting comparative when the CIA comes busting down the doors of some of these so called leet hacker groups.)

Laughing Man on the other hand, while the character in it's media succeeded in what he set out to achieve the symbology isn't well known enough to be the defacto go to image for someone trying to prove their internet anonymity.

Would be better to see some level of creativity within the groups who use these symbols then again nothing says we are part of the original non conformist like taking symbols made popular in media entertainment and then using them in the exact same fashion they were used in said media.

 

[fenrizz]

Che Guevara, or Guy Fawkes, ceased to be a man long ago and has instead become a symbol.

Things take on new meanings all the time, it's perfectly normal.

True, but sometimes it's good (or at least funny) to look back at the original meaning behind the symbol.

And besides, one day I want to make a T-shirt that says "Che Guevara would put a bullet in your head for wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt".

That is very true.
I'd buy a shirt like that though.

 

[mad825]

I like the Fawkes mask because Internet anonymity is used for both good and evil, as well as anything and everything in-between. And, of course, one person's idea of heroic Internet vigilantism is inevitably someone else's idea of pointless trolling. If not outright terrorism!

Guy Fawkes himself is the ideal poster boy for this concept because he was both a selfless hero, a ruthless villain, and just some mindless terrorist - all at the same time! It simply depends on where - if anywhere - you stand on the idea of getting a new government into power by blowing up the existing one.

To those who celebrate Guy Fawkes Night: Can you ever really be sure that the person next to you wants to parade that effigy down the street for the same reason that YOU do?

That's the beauty of it.

Yeah, well. the problem of your Guy Fawkes is that he's a zealot and no exaggeration, he is the today's (and western) equivalent to ISIS or Al qaeda. He had all the qualities of an dictatorship, he was a religious nut who interprets the bible in a literal sense. There are no real redeeming qualities unless you're a strict catholic yourself.

Bonfire night is mostly about how Protestants overcame the Catholics. There is no longer any honour or pride with that in modern England and is mostly seen as an event to relax, socialise - a lesser Christmas in a sense.

I'll also reiterate that *it* was chosen because of a comic book and not historical fact.

 

[briankoontz]

Given that this thread largely amounts to "we're cooler than both Guy Fawkes and the Laughing Man", I'd say it's far more indicative of internet culture than either of the proposed entities. It's people not on the internet < people on the internet < people on the internet commenting on the internet