Poll: Buying Beyond Two Souls? Strong female protagonist included and discussion.

[Remus]

I await reviews. I couldn't play Heavy Rain because of its control scheme and over-reliance on QTEs. If the game has actual gameplay, count me along for the ride. I love a good story.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

I'm definitely buying the game because I thought Heavy Rain was one of the best games I ever played, and Quantic Dream's tech demos are better than some actual games (*coughCODcough*). And while I like the fact the protagonist is a woman, I'd think just as much of the game if the main character was male. It just looks like the protagonist is going to have a harrowing experience regardless of gender. If I may be petty, especially with Jim Sterling's rant today, I find Jodie Holmes rather unattractive. Ellen Page is cute, but the translation of her from reality to virtual reality...off. Won't stop me from buying it though.

 

[Furioso]

I know I won't be buying it (I find David Cage to be a horrendous story teller. Example, remember that whole thing in Heavy Rain where Ethan kept passing out and finding Oragami figures in his jacket? Remember how it was totally dropped leaving a gaping plot hole? Yea.) but if the game has a good female lead than good for them.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I love a good story.

Then you probably wouldn't have liked Heavy Rain regardless, even if it actually had some decent gameplay.

Seriously, the story was an awful, nonsensical mess.

 

[The_Echo]

With all due respect, point-and-click adventure games have actual thought put into the game design. A well made inventory puzzle can be a beautiful thing. Indigo Prophecy was a prolonged, agonizing game of Simon Says, and Heavy Rain is basically a game of QTEs (part two of a Song of Cage and Fail).

Never understood the mass vitriol given to QTEs. When the game's designed around the concept, why is it still a bad thing? I think Heavy Rain is one of the best-implemented uses of the idea.

But when I said "an evolved point-and-click," I was speaking more of the way a QD game is played, rather than the integrity of its design (which, I think, is subjective). Perhaps it'd be more accurate to compare the relationship between QD and point-and-click to the relationship between platformers and third-person action games.

I dunno if it'll make sense, but let's give it a shot:
Monkey Island (base) -> Grim Fandango (3D) -> Indigo Prophecy (altered interactivity)

Super Mario Bros. 3 (base) -> Spyro the Dragon (3D) -> God of War (altered gameplay)

Really, I only meant to illustrate that, while it's not what we normally think when we say "game," that doesn't make it not-a-game.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

With all due respect, point-and-click adventure games have actual thought put into the game design. A well made inventory puzzle can be a beautiful thing. Indigo Prophecy was a prolonged, agonizing game of Simon Says, and Heavy Rain is basically a game of QTEs (part two of a Song of Cage and Fail).

Never understood the mass vitriol given to QTEs. When the game's designed around the concept, why is it still a bad thing? I think Heavy Rain is one of the best-implemented uses of the idea.

But when I said "an evolved point-and-click," I was speaking more of the way a QD game is played, rather than the integrity of its design (which, I think, is subjective). Perhaps it'd be more accurate to compare the relationship between QD and point-and-click to the relationship between platformers and third-person action games.

I dunno if it'll make sense, but let's give it a shot:
Monkey Island (base) -> Grim Fandango (3D) -> Indigo Prophecy (altered interactivity)

Super Mario Bros. 3 (base) -> Spyro the Dragon (3D) -> God of War (altered gameplay)

Really, I only meant to illustrate that, while it's not what we normally think when we say "game," that doesn't make it not-a-game.

I feel like you should actually play Indigo Prophecy before you start defending it.

No, seriously, the game is indefensible.

It's not a game really, it's a series of button presses that allow you to continue watching a cut scene. A cut scene that is playing out completely without any involvement of the player whatsoever.

If it's like anything, it's like having a broken VCR, and only being able to watch the movie you're watching if you constantly hold down the play button, but much more annoying.

 

[Miss G.]

Never understood the mass vitriol given to QTEs. When the game's designed around the concept, why is it still a bad thing?

As a player of JRPGs I've been conditioned to think 'cinematic'= 'put the controller down until the control is given back to me'. With that in mind, for me, games with this concept would just be a string of missed button prompts, frustration and no hope of control being given to me. It's almost like paying for a really overpriced movie and being expected to do more than press play when all you want to do is watch it. I don't hate QTEs so much as I actively avoid them like the plague.

 

[alphamalet]

Sorry! Double Post!

 

[alphamalet]

Nope, and it has nothing to a with a male vs female protagonist. David Cage is a terrible storyteller and a worse game designer. I will not be spending money on something that will be riddled with plot holes and nonsensical twists (if Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy are anything to go on), nor will I indulge in a "game" that wants as little to do with the player as possible. Pass.

Additionally, how many people actually give a shit that Beyond: Two Souls is featuring a female protagonist? Does that really matter to a ton of people? Are people buying the game specifically for that? Also, what does that have to do with discussing the merits of the game itself? I'm not seeing that swaying many people's purchasing decision TBH. Finally, if anyone is going into purchasing Beyond with the misapprehension that it will be encouraging the medium to feature more female protagonists, they are sorely mistaken. All it will do is encourage David Cage to make more crappy movies games "interactive experiences".

 

[white_wolf]

I don't own a PS3 but I'm hoping to get one just because of this game! However that said when I first saw the ad for her being a solider before the preview was over I went, " I'm in love!" because just seeing this one preview I thought finally a fem lead solider game that looks awesome must buy now! But doing more research and seeing a few other ads of her as a child has shown this game to be a progressive life fallowing game with paranormal influences so even though I still want to get the system to play this game I'm worried it might not be as awesome as I initially thought. I still think the game looks cool, the fem hero seems compelling, her supporting characters seem interesting, I'm liking the general on paper idea of interactive gameplay, the scenes I have seen (avoiding too many spoiler videos) are looking decent, and I did enjoy playing Indigo Prophecy so I'm hoping this game will be one I really enjoy I don't want to play it and leave with a feeling of that game was ok.

 

[Tanis]

I don't CARE.

I just don't care who the lead is, as long as it isn't Ping-Ding-Dong or John AmeriKlan or whatever.

It's if the game is GOOD.
Fun, challenging, engrossing, etc.

Not every game as to be 'fun to play' per say (The Walking Dead was boring as hell, game play wise), but there can be other factors that make me want to finish it (The Walking Dead had a GREAT story), or whatever.

 

[mysecondlife]

I have it preordered. For now. Whether I buy it or not depends on the early review. If it's crap, I'll cancel it and preorder Tear Away or something...

 

[Compatriot Block]

Honestly I think David Cage is poison. I think Heavy Rain and Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) were nightmares that start off funny in a SyFy original sort of way and quickly devolve into messes that actually made me sad. Fahrenheit in particular is a nonsensical and embarrassingly bad story that defies the term "plot-hole" with its terrible attempts at plot-twists.

Spoiler

Being arrested by the cops? No problem, I'm going to suddenly develop "magic kung-fu powers" out of nowhere!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FQZnIUqxH70#t=725

So no, I won't be buying it.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Hey, remember when Remember Me devs were making a big thing because the protagonist is female?

Yeah, that had little effect on its reviews and sales: the game ended up slightly above average, and that's why a lot of people didn't buy it.

And I would(don't own a PS3) be making the same judgement,if the reviews and the general opinion of it is good, then I would consider checking it out.

 

[havoc33]

I know I won't be buying it (I find David Cage to be a horrendous story teller. Example, remember that whole thing in Heavy Rain where Ethan kept passing out and finding Oragami figures in his jacket? Remember how it was totally dropped leaving a gaping plot hole? Yea.) but if the game has a good female lead than good for them.

Those biggest plot holes occurred unfortunately in large due to cut content:

http://www.giantbomb.com/heavy-rain/3030-21304/forums/deleted-scenes-explain-the-games-biggest-plot-hole-464364/#

Personally, I loved the game. It totally sucked me in, and I finished it in two evenings. Here's hoping Beyond can improve on the formula, but also keep some of the atmosphere and noir setting that made Heavy Rain so good.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I've seen footage, and it started off promising with the Ellen Paige character as a little girl getting tested.

Then unfortunately I got treated to a patented crazy Cage fight scene, where an adult Ellen Paige is fleeing from the cops and then has a kung fu match with them on top of a speeding train in the middle of the rain. You know, because cops just blindly hurl themselves into danger when apprehending a suspect. Instead of, say, stopping the train or whatever.

Also, even with prominent actors the performance acting is still terrible. Everytime I heard Ellen Paige say 'Aiden' I just cringed.

It has nothing to do with QTE's or it not being "game" enough -- The Walking Dead showed how it can be done -- David Cage is just an all around bad writer, director, and game developer. And it baffles me Sony is still backing this guy.

 

[Soxafloppin]

I'm getting it because I liked Heavy Rain and it looks good, not because of the protagonists gender.

 

[King Billi]

I wasn't aware that the fact the main protagonist was a woman was a big selling point for this game..?

In any case I'll certainly be getting this game just because I have a high regard for the other games from Quantic Dream I've played. If nothing else it will certainly be interesting.

 

[Eve Charm]

Somewhere in there, I get the suspicion that you intend to use BTS as a benchmark of how much people want games with strong female protagonists. I advise against this, mostly because David Cage is a blithering idiot who writes female characters with about as much authenticity and depth as one of those buy-in-bulk Valentine's Day cards.

I basically refuse to believe that David Cage has somehow miraculously overcome years of placing women in their underwear into creepy, rapey situations to write an actually compelling female character. So the whole assumption that BTS will somehow be a triumph for feminist desires and expression is already misguided.

In other words, BTS's imminent failure (or unlikely success) won't prove one way or another whether there's demand for strong female leads, because I am sure it will lack a strong female lead. And probably just be a shit game driven by laughably improbable strings of tragedies.

Then again, what do I know? This is just my opinion based on everything David Cage has ever said, done, and made...

Well it makes a perfect benchmark, it's giving what everyone is up in arms about especially while GTA not having a female lead is hot on the mind. There are people that like david cage's games and people that don't like david cage's games. If they thought Indigo was good they probably got heavy rain, if they thought it was crap they didn't I expect it to be the same with BTS or for the fact that it is female centered maybe go for it anyway.

If people are just looking at box art and name alone or going through looking at reviews they are going to see "Female" All over the place. Whats going to be fun to see is will it drive people to buy it or away from buying it. If anything after the first month sales I can assure you people in the industry will be comparing this to heavy rain and other games like this, and it'll be a strong point in people deciding to or not make another female lead game in the near future.

If anything this is looking like more of a fad because I don't see the conviction really behind this. I'm buying this because I like or at least found HR and IP interesting, I'm personally fed up with the whole gender issues and claims of not be represented. If this was an Atlus game tho hands down day one bought, I don't find Etriah odyssey the best series but the box is on my shelf and the game in my 3ds cause they aren't bad, but it means people are buying them and they'll hopefully keep bringing games over. Also I feel I can be more pissed at sega for no plans on Yakuza 5 because I have Yakuza 1-4 and dead souls, and other sega games that were risky to bring over like Valkyria Chronicles and project diva still being in my ps3 cause strangely it is fun.

I mean geez get hyped over something new at least, it's not another sports title or fps wannabe call of duty.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Somewhere in there, I get the suspicion that you intend to use BTS as a benchmark of how much people want games with strong female protagonists. I advise against this, mostly because David Cage is a blithering idiot who writes female characters with about as much authenticity and depth as one of those buy-in-bulk Valentine's Day cards.

I basically refuse to believe that David Cage has somehow miraculously overcome years of placing women in their underwear into creepy, rapey situations to write an actually compelling female character. So the whole assumption that BTS will somehow be a triumph for feminist desires and expression is already misguided.

In other words, BTS's imminent failure (or unlikely success) won't prove one way or another whether there's demand for strong female leads, because I am sure it will lack a strong female lead. And probably just be a shit game driven by laughably improbable strings of tragedies.

Then again, what do I know? This is just my opinion based on everything David Cage has ever said, done, and made...

Well it makes a perfect benchmark, it's giving what everyone is up in arms about especially while GTA not having a female lead is hot on the mind. There are people that like david cage's games and people that don't like david cage's games. If they thought Indigo was good they probably got heavy rain, if they thought it was crap they didn't I expect it to be the same with BTS or for the fact that it is female centered maybe go for it anyway.

If people are just looking at box art and name alone or going through looking at reviews they are going to see "Female" All over the place. Whats going to be fun to see is will it drive people to buy it or away from buying it. If anything after the first month sales I can assure you people in the industry will be comparing this to heavy rain and other games like this, and it'll be a strong point in people deciding to or not make another female lead game in the near future.

If anything this is looking like more of a fad because I don't see the conviction really behind this. I'm buying this because I like or at least found HR and IP interesting, I'm personally fed up with the whole gender issues and claims of not be represented. If this was an Atlus game tho hands down day one bought, I don't find Etriah odyssey the best series but the box is on my shelf and the game in my 3ds cause they aren't bad, but it means people are buying them and they'll hopefully keep bringing games over. Also I feel I can be more pissed at sega for no plans on Yakuza 5 because I have Yakuza 1-4 and dead souls, and other sega games that were risky to bring over like Valkyria Chronicles and project diva still being in my ps3 cause strangely it is fun.

I mean geez get hyped over something new at least, it's not another sports title or fps wannabe call of duty.

Actually this won't be a solid test. A game can fail for more reasions than just the gender of the protagonist. Will you be looking at those reasons?

Frankly more data would be preferred to help weed out the inconsistentcies of the other factors that could make a game fail. This thread says it all, thre's people not buying it because of the developer among other things. It's unfair to lay that blame on the female protagonist.

Honestly it's getting incomplete data like you propose that likely created the lack of, then outcry for more female protagonists.