A couple years back I used to play a lot of online FPSs. You know your Call of Duty, TF2, Counter Strike ETC. And I would always play as the equivalent of what a sniper was called in those games and I was really good at it(my skills as a sniper in games has decreased quite a bit because I have been mostly playing racing and RPGs). I remember a couple times being chewed out because of it keep in mind I never sat near spawn points for those easy kills I kept my attention towards the middle of the map. I never saw it as a bad thing because is it wrong to have a tactical advantage over your opponents and helping defend my team? So my question is this and I'm asking for a mature answer, is it wrong to find a good spot on a map and hold that spot for the sake of team support and defense?
Poll: Camping in Gaming
- Thread starter Taggart3131
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Every shooter is about camping, the key is knowing when and where to camp, most players don't. As long as you're playing the objective and trying to win, there's nothing wrong with that. The people camping solely for kills are playing wrong. A shooter really just boils down to a grand game of tug-of-war with each team trying to control more of the map than the other.
Spawn camping (really spawn trapping) is just fine because the whole goal of the game is to keep the enemy as far away from the objective as possible. It's the other team's fault for getting spawn trapped, usually because they didn't push out and camped at the start of the match. Camping only loses you the game. Most people lose the standard 3 zone mode (aka COD's domination) at the start of the match because they all take their spawn zone first instead of pushing to the middle zone or flanking the enemy in some fashion and lose the match just 10 seconds in because they LET the other have the middle of the map for free.
PTFO (Play the Fucking Objective)
Spawn camping (really spawn trapping) is just fine because the whole goal of the game is to keep the enemy as far away from the objective as possible. It's the other team's fault for getting spawn trapped, usually because they didn't push out and camped at the start of the match. Camping only loses you the game. Most people lose the standard 3 zone mode (aka COD's domination) at the start of the match because they all take their spawn zone first instead of pushing to the middle zone or flanking the enemy in some fashion and lose the match just 10 seconds in because they LET the other have the middle of the map for free.
PTFO (Play the Fucking Objective)
Well there is nothing wrong with camping.
If you get shot by a sniper a couple of times, while capturing the objective or on route to said objective, it should be clear to you that you need to find a way to take out that sniper before advancing. If you don't at least try, then you can expect to die a lot. It's basic logic we learn infants who mash the square block into the circle hole and cry because it doesn't work. Someday, the block or the shape might break and it will fit, but not without many, many attempts. If the game is objective based, it's even less clear to me why anyone would rage over campers.
Dealing with snipers in particular usually boils to down knowing the maps. If he got into the snipertower, that means you should have been watching the ladder that leads up there. If you keep getting shot on one particular spot, you now know that he has a perfect line of sight to that spot and he may not be able to see the other side of that piece of scenery.
Spawncamping imo, is only possible because devs allow it to happen. Most notoriously, you can get spawntrapped in TF2 in an almost inescapable way. If the defending team has an aggressive strategy, they can push you back into your spawning area so far they simply have to watch a single doorway. In the level called Dustbowl, on it's second and third stages, this will happen almost 1 out of every 10 times if the attacking team does not start out strong enough. This is simply because the defending team is allowed acces to the spawning area of the other team. In it's first stage, the level allows for three separate exits from the spawn, so the defenders have a harder time watching all three sides. Subsequent stages have separate exits to begin with, but they are not blocked off, so the defenders can phalanx their way in and lock you into your single-doored spawn.
Most of the times i get frustrated with campers is mostly due to bad level design. If the objective is only reachable through a single long hallway for example, then i almost immediately lose patience with the other team's sniper (if he's skilled enough to take on groups and avoid flashbangs and such). This is not his fault, due to the level design, he is automatically drawn to this spot because he wants and needs to defend his objective. Or if the sniper tower leaves no room to countersnipe him, because it's blocked by scenery. CodBlops had this immensely, because once a snipêr got up a tower, he can claymore the ladder and snipe away. This got frustrating on maps that did not have respawns, because you needed to sacrifice a teammate, just for the chance to take him out. This was inherent to the maps and gameplay, but what was also inherent in the game, you could also 'noobtube' your way past them because of splash damage. So i can't really stay frustrated for long.
On game modes that use a 'random' spawn location type thing, i will get frustrated by players who simply sit on one of these 'random' locations with a shotgun or the like. He's just waiting for RNGesus to smile on him and frown on me to spawn with my rectum already firmly placed over his barrel. This just means that once every so often, i'll die due to bad luck. Nothing to do with skills, tactics or team communication, but just frustrating luck. You can take him out once you know he's there, but i'm sure we've all met the player who simply runs back to his comfy little hole once he respawns.
All in all, i can't truly be mad at campers, since it's mostly either faulty level design or the other team's objective to find a way to take him out. I will say the occasional 'goddamit' or 'ofcourse', but that's just heat of the moment. I have never ever vented these towards other players though.
If you get shot by a sniper a couple of times, while capturing the objective or on route to said objective, it should be clear to you that you need to find a way to take out that sniper before advancing. If you don't at least try, then you can expect to die a lot. It's basic logic we learn infants who mash the square block into the circle hole and cry because it doesn't work. Someday, the block or the shape might break and it will fit, but not without many, many attempts. If the game is objective based, it's even less clear to me why anyone would rage over campers.
Dealing with snipers in particular usually boils to down knowing the maps. If he got into the snipertower, that means you should have been watching the ladder that leads up there. If you keep getting shot on one particular spot, you now know that he has a perfect line of sight to that spot and he may not be able to see the other side of that piece of scenery.
Spawncamping imo, is only possible because devs allow it to happen. Most notoriously, you can get spawntrapped in TF2 in an almost inescapable way. If the defending team has an aggressive strategy, they can push you back into your spawning area so far they simply have to watch a single doorway. In the level called Dustbowl, on it's second and third stages, this will happen almost 1 out of every 10 times if the attacking team does not start out strong enough. This is simply because the defending team is allowed acces to the spawning area of the other team. In it's first stage, the level allows for three separate exits from the spawn, so the defenders have a harder time watching all three sides. Subsequent stages have separate exits to begin with, but they are not blocked off, so the defenders can phalanx their way in and lock you into your single-doored spawn.
Most of the times i get frustrated with campers is mostly due to bad level design. If the objective is only reachable through a single long hallway for example, then i almost immediately lose patience with the other team's sniper (if he's skilled enough to take on groups and avoid flashbangs and such). This is not his fault, due to the level design, he is automatically drawn to this spot because he wants and needs to defend his objective. Or if the sniper tower leaves no room to countersnipe him, because it's blocked by scenery. CodBlops had this immensely, because once a snipêr got up a tower, he can claymore the ladder and snipe away. This got frustrating on maps that did not have respawns, because you needed to sacrifice a teammate, just for the chance to take him out. This was inherent to the maps and gameplay, but what was also inherent in the game, you could also 'noobtube' your way past them because of splash damage. So i can't really stay frustrated for long.
On game modes that use a 'random' spawn location type thing, i will get frustrated by players who simply sit on one of these 'random' locations with a shotgun or the like. He's just waiting for RNGesus to smile on him and frown on me to spawn with my rectum already firmly placed over his barrel. This just means that once every so often, i'll die due to bad luck. Nothing to do with skills, tactics or team communication, but just frustrating luck. You can take him out once you know he's there, but i'm sure we've all met the player who simply runs back to his comfy little hole once he respawns.
All in all, i can't truly be mad at campers, since it's mostly either faulty level design or the other team's objective to find a way to take him out. I will say the occasional 'goddamit' or 'ofcourse', but that's just heat of the moment. I have never ever vented these towards other players though.
Sure it's a legitimate tactic, but it is also cheap and dull.
As is spawn camping, or spawn trapping, or nukes, or teleport one shot knife, or grenade spam, or quick scope, or no-scope, or wall spray, or spray and pray, or boosting,...
There is an infinite amount of dull ass shit you can do to fuck with the outcome without effort, but you need to draw the line somewhere.
As is spawn camping, or spawn trapping, or nukes, or teleport one shot knife, or grenade spam, or quick scope, or no-scope, or wall spray, or spray and pray, or boosting,...
There is an infinite amount of dull ass shit you can do to fuck with the outcome without effort, but you need to draw the line somewhere.
Camping is a tactic. If somebody keeps dying to a sniper (or someone using a different weapon) in the same place over and over and over, they're doing a bad job of adjusting their tactics. Take a different route.
If the map only allows one route, or if there is an easy way to spawn camp (example, Unreal Tournament CTF-Facing Worlds), I will hate the map and the map designer, rather than the player.
If the map only allows one route, or if there is an easy way to spawn camp (example, Unreal Tournament CTF-Facing Worlds), I will hate the map and the map designer, rather than the player.
I make adequate use of the oppertunities the game provides. If a game allows camping, I'll camp. If a game allows use of scud missiles, I'll use scud missiles.
I never play FPS games competitively so, pardon my ignorance, but I must ask... "camping" is when you remain in one position with a long-range weapon such as a sniper rifle, yes?
if so, then... aren't you using the weapon EXACTLY the way it was intended to be used? what's the alternative? running up to enemies with your long range weapon and firing from the hip?
I guess I can see how it would be boring in competition, but that's where fantasy and reality collide. the whole point of tactics is to make fighting against the person using them as difficult as possible, so if you're going to make run-n-gun type games, a level of acceptable tactical tomfoolery is needed.
if so, then... aren't you using the weapon EXACTLY the way it was intended to be used? what's the alternative? running up to enemies with your long range weapon and firing from the hip?
I guess I can see how it would be boring in competition, but that's where fantasy and reality collide. the whole point of tactics is to make fighting against the person using them as difficult as possible, so if you're going to make run-n-gun type games, a level of acceptable tactical tomfoolery is needed.
Well, ballabird knows more than I do about it. In RPGs, I think of camping as a literal camp for sleeping in games that don't let you heal by just sitting for a few minutes, but unlike staying in a hotel, you have a chance of being attacked while sleeping.
To me it depends on your role or the situation.
If you're a sniper, sure, sit in a vantage point all you want. If you're defending the enemy teams objective, like, a flag or something. Then sure, lock that shit down. If you're sitting in the corner of a room with your LMG pointed at the door just for kills because all you care about in life is your K/D ratio then GTFO.
If you're a sniper, sure, sit in a vantage point all you want. If you're defending the enemy teams objective, like, a flag or something. Then sure, lock that shit down. If you're sitting in the corner of a room with your LMG pointed at the door just for kills because all you care about in life is your K/D ratio then GTFO.
Camping can be done with any kind of weapon, and it's generally the non-long range campers people have an issue with. Most FPS multiplayer maps have a few nooks and crannies that mostly cover all your bases, in which you just have to hide and wait for someone to run by and shotgun/machine gun blast them to death. It's a cheap way, but just as you're susceptible to someone doing it to you, you have equal oppertunity of doing it, too. And not too long after a map is out most players will generally know where these hidey spots are and make sure nobody takes adavantage of them by plating a some mines there or something.balladbird said:
In Modern Warfare 2 there was a map that was a field with trenches and a bunker right in the middle. It was basically made for camping.
Ah, I see, so it's more or less taking advantage of natural bottle-necks and blind corners then? I can see how that'd be annoying, and if too many players did it it would grind the game to a halt as everyone refused to move.Casual Shinji said:
thanks! I feel I learned something today. XD
Not really. If you are a sniper with a long range scope, I dont expect you to move around for my benefit. Same goes for if someone has locked down a corridor with a light machine gun and a bipod. If people keep on running into your LoS, and nobody tries to flank you, it isn't his fault that you are turning yourself into a group of lemmings.
That being said though: Fuck spawn camping.
That being said though: Fuck spawn camping.
Spawn Camping is always tiresome. It's an effective tactic, but it's boring for both sides.
Camping in general? I'm not fond of it, but I make an exception for Snipers. In fact I tend to separate "camping" from "using a Sniper properly" just to avoid the negative connotation in my head. It comes off as lazy to me for the types of classes and loadouts that are supposed to go out and deal with the threats. Camping is certainly a legitimate tactic, but it's one that I have no respect for.
Camping in general? I'm not fond of it, but I make an exception for Snipers. In fact I tend to separate "camping" from "using a Sniper properly" just to avoid the negative connotation in my head. It comes off as lazy to me for the types of classes and loadouts that are supposed to go out and deal with the threats. Camping is certainly a legitimate tactic, but it's one that I have no respect for.
I was always under the impression that it was designed for snipers to sit back and for everyone else to spam noob tubes endlessly in the middle. But I'm not fond of MW2 so I could be seeing that completely wrong.Casual Shinji said:
I've never played many online games, but couldn't the camping problem be solved by playing in teams and having at least one team member act as a counter sniper?
It's a perfectly good strategy.
If you can choose between running around and dying or staying in one place for a while, keeping an area secure from your fortress of death-to-anyone-who-comes-near, the choice seems obvious.
Spawn camping on the other hand...
Well, if you get into a position where that's possible, the game should just declare you the winner or spawn enemies elsewhere. But if that's not an option, just don't do it.
I do like the way TF2 handles this, with the safe spawn zones.
If you can choose between running around and dying or staying in one place for a while, keeping an area secure from your fortress of death-to-anyone-who-comes-near, the choice seems obvious.
Spawn camping on the other hand...
Well, if you get into a position where that's possible, the game should just declare you the winner or spawn enemies elsewhere. But if that's not an option, just don't do it.
I do like the way TF2 handles this, with the safe spawn zones.
its annoying that you are expected to play the game in one acceptable way to a certain group of players, expecting everyone to play the twitch happy in your face up close and personal types is dumbfounding to say the least.
there is a difference between intelligent 'camping' and vindictive cheap camping of things like spawn points. intelligent camping involves moving, suppressing an area and denying it to the opposition.
world of tanks is a good example of it done right. if the team camps their base they will die, the other team will outflank them and pick them off one by one and only works if the opposition directly and blindly rushes
there is a difference between intelligent 'camping' and vindictive cheap camping of things like spawn points. intelligent camping involves moving, suppressing an area and denying it to the opposition.
world of tanks is a good example of it done right. if the team camps their base they will die, the other team will outflank them and pick them off one by one and only works if the opposition directly and blindly rushes