Poll: Can humour go too far? (potentially offensive image within)
- Thread starter kiwi_poo
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Of course it can be taken too far. (Nothing posted here has crossed that boundary as far as I'm concerned). But part of why this humour works is because it has crossed a boundary. If there's no boundary then it's not funny. I have a feeling the people who voted 'no' don't understand what makes this sort of stuff funny. If anything is fair game then nothing is funny anymore. It's like how swear words lose their offensiveness once everyone accepts them.
I always hold that everything is fair game for humour. However, whether that humour is well received or not is a different matter.kiwi_poo said:
See, the problem here isn't that it's offensive in and of itself (most people would agree that Hitler was a bad guy and wouldn't assume that the poster was actually trying to say we should gas the Jews) but it makes me uncomfortable because I know there would be people out there (because I've met them) who would read this and go "Yeah! Fuck the Jews, gas 'em all!"kiwi_poo said:
And as for the 'just don't say it to a Jewish person' thing, even if a potentially anti-semitic joke (which I don't necessarily think this is, but hypothetically,) wasn't posted publicly on the internet and was just told between friends, isn't that just encouraging segregation? "I can't tell you this joke because you're Jewish, but us non-Jewish people can enjoy a joke based on the horror that your grandparents experienced."
I definitely don't buy that 'words will never hurt me' stuff. Making a joke about important things trivialises these experiences and normalises talking about it in this way. Making jokes about how black people, gay people or women are 'different' to 'normal' people, even in a 'humorous' context, solidifies those stereotypes in some people's minds. Making jokes about rape, the single most traumatic and horrifying experience in many people's lives, normalises the idea that it's something that doesn't need to be taken seriously, that perpetrators can look back on and have a laugh and a brag about (which some do: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124272157 ) and that those who are raped can be made fun of for (even if it's just behind their backs).Candidus said:
Not everyone is intelligent enough to be able to separate "We don't think this is really the case, we are laughing ironically" and "Jews need to die and women deserve to be raped hurr hurr". Don't underestimate the power of verbal social interaction. On the subject of Hitler, how do you think he convinced a large portion of his country to become Nazis and torture Jewish, gay and disabled people (among others) in the first place?
This is a good rule of thumb for not offending people when you know that will be the only result (though for some people, that may be their intent).hazabaza1 said:
But no. As a rule, I do not believe humour can go too far. The entire point is to push boundaries, cross lines, and occasionally you might cross the wrong line somewhere along the way and the result just isn't funny, but that doesn't mean you were wrong to make the attempt.
When you hear actually racist people coming out with jokes like "I wish I could be like Mario and jump on the heads of each of these niggers so that they go pew! Pew! Pew! All dead" or laughing at GIFs where a plane saying 'Paki Airlines' explodes and then has a tagline 'fucking result!' then it's hard to be able to say that all jokes are fair game.Acrisius said:How nice then that we have someone as intelligent as you, that can judge the intelligence of others and tell them what to think and what to do and what is fact
Am I going to judge them and think I'm more intelligent than them? Perhaps to you sounds arrogant and patronising, but yes, I do judge myself to be more intelligent than someone who actually finds humour in the hypothetical death of other people based on their skin colour (or gender or sexuality or whatever...) because it's implicitly ignorant to believe they deserve it.
I'm generally the kind of guy that doesn't take life too seriously and that can find humor in pretty much anything.
With that being said, my rule is, "It's always funny until someone gets hurt. Then it's fucking hilarious!"
With that being said, my rule is, "It's always funny until someone gets hurt. Then it's fucking hilarious!"
I think the quality and context of a joke has a lot to do with how many people find it offensive. In this instance, there is no narrative and specific timing behind this joke, so we have no idea what the context is/was. If the topics of Hitler and Pokemon happened to cross paths and this user took advantage of that crossing, then the joke would be slightly entertaining compared to if it was isolated. Also, the joke is naturally not very good.
EDIT: Also, making jokes appropriate to your respective audience is very important. Not being a racist/sexist/whatever-ist is a very good step as well.
EDIT: Also, making jokes appropriate to your respective audience is very important. Not being a racist/sexist/whatever-ist is a very good step as well.
Humor is primarily derived from "tragedy", yours or someone else's. Think of any joke or piece of funny you can remember, and consider who it harmed and in what way. Comedy and tragedy are intertwined and compliment each other.
In short: No, humor is infinite. Its only limit is in the delivery.
Therefore, when someone says (or posts) something stupid and insensitive, it should not be blown off with, "It was a joke, dude, lighten up."
Any decent comedian will tell you that humor must have good delivery and timing to be humor.
If it has neither, it's not a joke. It's just someone being an asshole.
It's not being funny. It's insulting to the audience, and the "comedian" deserves to be ridiculed for their lack of skill.
In short: No, humor is infinite. Its only limit is in the delivery.
Therefore, when someone says (or posts) something stupid and insensitive, it should not be blown off with, "It was a joke, dude, lighten up."
Any decent comedian will tell you that humor must have good delivery and timing to be humor.
If it has neither, it's not a joke. It's just someone being an asshole.
It's not being funny. It's insulting to the audience, and the "comedian" deserves to be ridiculed for their lack of skill.
I dunno, in my country freedom of speech is restricted. Verbal abuse, particularly if classified as 'hate speech' (racist/homophobic/etc) is enough to get a person arrested in the UK, so it's not that restricting freedom of speech 'is the way to go' but here it simply 'is the way it already is'.Acrisius said:In which case, I think I'm more intelligent than you are, because I think it's implicitly ignorant to believe that things are as simple as you make them out to be, not to mention that you also imply that restricting freedom of speech is the way to go. And also because you don't realize that regardless of the joke, someone somewhere will always find a way to be offended and we'd be living in constant hell if we had to cater to everyone who gets offended by anything. But then, since you're obviously less intelligent than I am, why should I care about what you think...hmm...
Oh yeah, because I don't want to be arrogant! I think the ship has sailed on the patronizing part, but by god I will not be as arrogant as to completely disregard you just because you have a stupid opinon
Someone will always find a way to be offended, for sure, but what I'm talking about isn't hurt feelings, it's actual effects on society that are perpetuated by using ignorant language. Even stuff like saying that someone is 'being a woman' for being cowardly perpetuates the idea that women are lesser than men, for example.
And people say "oh, it would be too hard to be careful of what we say, could you imagine if we had to actually THINK about the CONSEQUENCES OF OUR ACTIONS, man, that would be so much hard work and just not as much fun." Well, quite frankly, tough. Because if it's a choice between you not getting to laugh at a rape joke and a rape victim not having to mentally relive their trauma (or a rapist thinking what they've done is 'funny'), it shouldn't be hard to realise which of those things is more important.
I would say me and a group of my friends have some of the darkest humour imaginable, but I honestly don't find anything wrong with that. The thing I've found when I discuss my sense of humour with most people is that they seem to believe we laugh at horrible things happening because they're happening and it's incredibly funny. It's not. I laugh at horrible jokes and dark humour because I'm not supposed to laugh at it. The simple fact that we're all laughing about a joke someone's made about some tragedy is funny within itself; the fact that it's such a shocking thing to say makes it funny, and that's where dark humour comes from for me.
Also, making light of extreme acts of human violence or terrible ordeals in history, such as the Holocaust or 9/11, is in my opinion the best way of getting over it. If you can't make light of a situation, how else could you go about getting past it? Trivialize it, and suddenly any point the perpetrator was trying to make becomes invalid.
Also, making light of extreme acts of human violence or terrible ordeals in history, such as the Holocaust or 9/11, is in my opinion the best way of getting over it. If you can't make light of a situation, how else could you go about getting past it? Trivialize it, and suddenly any point the perpetrator was trying to make becomes invalid.
Yes, humour can go too far. Too far is when you cease to amuse those you would be humourous too and simply shock or offend them. You can underdo humour and bore people, and overdo it and annoy people. And it all depends on the audience.
If you know your audience, and you cater to them specifically, this shouldn't be a problem. But of course there's "Too Far". At a certain point, you're pointlessly annoying and offensive to the extent that most people don't find you amusing, and you've failed at humour. So long as you keep amusing the people you want to amuse, you're fine.
That's not to say that if you "Go too far" you should be shut up, just that most people you want to be amused won't be, and they'll avoid you.
Captcha: "I know nothing!".
Shut the hell up captcha.
If you know your audience, and you cater to them specifically, this shouldn't be a problem. But of course there's "Too Far". At a certain point, you're pointlessly annoying and offensive to the extent that most people don't find you amusing, and you've failed at humour. So long as you keep amusing the people you want to amuse, you're fine.
That's not to say that if you "Go too far" you should be shut up, just that most people you want to be amused won't be, and they'll avoid you.
Captcha: "I know nothing!".
Shut the hell up captcha.
Basically yeah. I have two cases where humor, while still technically humor, does go too far and makes you a dick.NinjaSniperAssassin said:
If the humor involves physically hurting another person to an extreme degree on purpose. (Which i think is universally too far, this doesnt include making light of a past event this involves YOU directly hurting someone to create humor against their will)
If the humor is designed ONLY to be funny BECAUSE it hurts someones feelings and makes them upset. (This is the rape jokes to the rape victim scenario)
I wont argue on if it still counts as humor. I will argue that if you break those rules youre a total dick and i have every right to never interact with you ever again.
I dont really like humor thats entirely based on offence. Its just so... lazy. It feels like the bullies humor; Humor derived from the simple punchline of "LOLOLOL SOMEONES FEELINGS MIGHT BE HURT" or "LOLOLOL THIS IS A SOCIAL TABOO!".
If Humor is offensive AND funny thats cool. If humor is only funny BECAUSE its offensive thats a weak joke in my view. Offending people is easy, everyone has a topic that will hurt their feelings because they have an emotional attatchment to it. Its just the laziest form of joke writing because its just based on naming a few easy social taboos out of the blue.
Most of the time I would say it depends on the context. For example, hearing a dead baby joke from a comedian who is known for that type of humour, thats fine, but to do something like... deliberately seek out someone who has recently lost a child and start telling them dead baby jokes - not acceptable.
In the right context, I honestly believe that humour should not have a limit. The second you start picking things out and saying 'this isnt ok to joke about, but everything else is' you're running into bad territory, but at the same time everything depends on context.
In the right context, I honestly believe that humour should not have a limit. The second you start picking things out and saying 'this isnt ok to joke about, but everything else is' you're running into bad territory, but at the same time everything depends on context.
I voted depends. I think your tact is very important. If you just go "Haha Hitler killed people!" that isn't even really a joke and the lack of humor coupled with offensive themes makes it offensive.
On the other hand, a good comedian can keep the offensiveness down while still being funny.
On the other hand, a good comedian can keep the offensiveness down while still being funny.