Poll: Can I support Equal Rights AND GamerGate?

[Wonder Warrior]

I am an impassioned feminist and supporter of equal rights. I have been to several panels across the U.S. relating to comics, games, and nerd culture in general. I love everything nerdy. I cosplay, I illustrate, I roleplay. However the whole controversy with GamerGate has rattled me.

I find the corruption in the gaming industry to be repulsive. I feel embarrassed and anxious when people ask me whether I would describe myself as being passionate about nerd culture. I do feel like the industry lacks a little diversity when it comes to characters but the fans are the most diverse set of intelligent people from all walks of life. The industry is changing as well.

I am not a man hater. I have actually donated to several charities to combat the abuse of men, women, and children in the U.S. I was disgusted by Anita Sarkeesian's comment about how sexism against men does not exist when rape targeting men is one of the least reported issues in the media today despite the frequency of times it happens.

In conclusion, can I support GamerGate in order to combat all of the lies perpetuated by entities who have lost touch with their fans? Can I stand shoulder to shoulder with bigots who do not believe women should have voting rights today? Should I support women who claim that men and children are never raped?

Am I going to be able to one day say, without it being a big deal, that I am a transgender nerd who believes in equality and integrity?

 

[totheendofsin]

Honestly that's entirely up to you, I started out sympathizing with gamergate but I've shifted to a more neutral stance on the whole matter. From what I've seen lurking in the various boards there are actually more people who think like you than you might think, however the louder voices that have a tendency to drown those people out definitely have an anti-feminist slant (note that more often than note in my experience anti-feminists aren't against equality but rather disagree with how modern feminism goes about it's goals)

But keep in mind to a not insignificant number of people (I don't think there are very many people like this on The Escapist) even being neutral on gamergate is enough to condemn you as a woman hating sociopath

My advice, go to the megathread, or r/kotakuinaction, hell even 8chan if you feel like you can filter out the nonsense there. Talk to Gamergate supporters, listen to their concerns and come to your own conclusions as to whether or not you can in good faith support Gamergate.

 

[f1r2a3n4k5]

To me, Gamergate seems to be a bit of a red herring for "I NEED A COUNTERPOINT AGAINST DIVERSITY."

That said, ethics in journalism is a very real cause to support. (Not just in gaming, but in all fields) I wish it wasn't also being used as a battering ram to knock down "Social Justice Warriors." (heavy, heavy sarcasm in quotes)

Perhaps a metered approach is in order? One in which you support journalistic ethics without supporting the "I hate women" aspect? Perhaps by not falling under the "Gamergate" umbrella?

If you *really* want a label, just call it "Jamergate" or something. Done.

It's like having your cake AND eating it too.

 

[Smooth Operator]

You can support whatever you feel like.

But for some real world advice, you seem intelligent enough to cut through the spazzy shit most of these groups keep living on so just go with your own path. Associating yourself with either side of crazy still leaves you looking like a crazy person, so forget the labelling shit and take things step by step as you see fit.

 

[Slayer4472]

I am an impassioned feminist and supporter of equal rights. I have been to several panels across the U.S. relating to comics, games, and nerd culture in general. I love everything nerdy. I cosplay, I illustrate, I roleplay. However the whole controversy with GamerGate has rattled me.

I find the corruption in the gaming industry to be repulsive. I feel embarrassed and anxious when people ask me whether I would describe myself as being passionate about nerd culture. I do feel like the industry lacks a little diversity when it comes to characters but the fans are the most diverse set of intelligent people from all walks of life. The industry is changing as well.

I am not a man hater. I have actually donated to several charities to combat the abuse of men, women, and children in the U.S. I was disgusted by Anita Sarkeesian's comment about how sexism against men does not exist when rape targeting men is one of the least reported issues in the media today despite the frequency of times it happens.

In conclusion, can I support GamerGate in order to combat all of the lies perpetuated by entities who have lost touch with their fans? Can I stand shoulder to shoulder with bigots who do not believe women should have voting rights today? Should I support women who claim that men and children are never raped?

Am I going to be able to one day say, without it being a big deal, that I am a transgender nerd who believes in equality and integrity?

Yes. There isn't any manner of ideological test to call yourself the Leader of GamerGate, but we'd certainly welcome your participation.

 

[Wonder Warrior]

Thank you all for your input. I still need some more thoughts before deciding which course of action to take next. I went to several Gamestops and respectfully asked the employees how they felt about things. For the most part they really want certain groups to make up their minds about the download vs used game policy.

At this point I am surprised so many people answered a place to discuss topics with peers but this is a forum after all.

Also, just to stir the pot, how important is Naturally promoting diversity in the media to us?

 

[Axzarious]

Yes. Yes you can. I'm not sure why people find this so difficult. To think that you can't support gamergate AND equal rights is comparable logic to 'I can't support feminism without also supporting the complete annihilation of men barring a few breeding stock' or 'I can't support research on alternate sources of fossil fuel because Nazi Germany did research on that in WW2.' If you go by the logic of 'a few bad apples spoil the bunch' then there's really nothing worth supporting this day in age. And that's ridiculous.

Everything has unsavory supporters, questionable origins, and dodgy ties, agendas or links. Especially when you go and try to dig up the past , or ties like friends, family, notable (and not so notable) supporters, ect. When people try to go this route, odds are they are ignorant/oblivious to the argument which can be mirrored against them, or just plain stubborn and grasping at straws in a desperate attempt to hold up their views.

While it can have some merit at times, in the majority, it's a simply ineffective argument. People can change over time, groups supporting something are diverse, and nitpicking individuals or subsets is a little ineffective. You have to dig up the main point they all seem to agree on and roll with it. In the case of gamergate, it's "Ethics in Game Journalism".


In regards to naturally promoting diversity? What do you mean? I think that as the consumer base expands, so too will diversity. The problem is that people expect a significant shift NOW rather than GENERATIONS as such things typically take in these regards.

 

[Bat Vader]

Why not? If someone has a problem with it just tell them to F**k off. You can support whatever you want to support.

 

[Jux]

A question for the OP. Why do you feel the specific need to be part of a movement with no structure, leadership or unified goals in order to personally speak out against what you personally see as corruption in the gaming industry? You may want to examine what, if any, advantage you gain by putting yourself under that banner.

 

[Wonder Warrior]

Good point everyone. Jux, I actually agree with what your point. I only become a member of groups which I can participate in events with or support. So donating, attending panels, sometimes protests. I have sent polite emails to comic book and video game companies thanking them for representing a diverse character well or even doing a white dude in a new interesting way. I actually toyed with the idea of sending a thank you letter to monolith for Talion in Shadows of Mordor but I feel that the story there was good while the character was a little generic. John Marston from Red Dead Redemption was done really well.

 

[PinkiePyro]

not really sure what to tell you other than just do what you think is right..

personally I have chosen the path of mostly ignoring the whole thing as if this happened in another industry say the movie one it would be news for maybe 2-3 days before everyone moved on
and while I am for women's rights and everyone should be equal ...
Anita Sarkeesian is a "femanazi" who just makes shit up as she pleases I feel she is the gaming equivalent of Sarah palin and should be ignored at all cost so we don't feed the troll

 

[Wonder Warrior]

The irritating thing is that Anita HAD some valid points that were taken hugely out of context. I feel like using the "Not a true scottsman" fallacy. Anita seems to court controversy. Certainly I feel like she should not receive death threats. Almost all of the feminists I know are hipster-y gamers with a chill attitude. They refuse to use social media to protest because they want to contribute in a more genuine way to real causes. My English teacher (who is into a bunch of classic contra style games) put it well when she said that "A war on women is when a girl in Pakistan is shot for going to school." By extension, I feel like for every Kratos there is a John Marston. For every Princess Peach there is a Nilin.

 

[Callate]

I think at this point it is very difficult for people to see "past" Gamergate. That is, if you declared yourself a supporter of Gamergate, you will be seen as a supporter of threatening, harassing, and doxxing women. It may be that what you want to talk about is journalistic ethics, or female characters, or stereotypical portrayals of gamers, but having declared yourself for GG, the conversation is not started, but ended.

I've seen this attitude in a lot of people who I tend to otherwise consider reasonable, intelligent, and level-headed. (I will note that I do not personally consider myself a "supporter" or "advocate" of GG.) It leads me to believe that at this point and time, self-identifying with GG is likely to cause of to be isolated from those with whom it would be most useful to have these discussions (and share that isolation with some who are, regrettably, particularly angry and "fringe" in their opinions).

 

[NPC009]

I've seen this attitude in a lot of people who I tend to otherwise consider reasonable, intelligent, and level-headed.

Honestly can't blame them. The experiences I've had with GGers were either bad or downright weird. Kinda made them look like crazy conspiracy theorists, really.

For instance, people who want 'more ethics' in gaming journalism in their country, but don't have a bleeping clue what publications are still around, who writes for them or what the actual contents are. Or publicly posting personal information of journalists they've been in contact with, no matter if they anti-GG or not, while insisting on remaining anonymous themselves. Oh, and there was this one dude who kept insisting he was totally okay with women because he worked for one for like 6 months.

Maybe it's just the local 'branch', but if I come across a GGer in the wild, I know the changes of them being open to discussion are extremely slim.

Personal experiences aside, Gamergate's name alone is toxic and I can't see it getting any better. Even if you heart is in the right place and you care about ethics in journalism (and you should, it's important!), associating with GG will hurt you and your cause more than it'll help. Don't forget you don't need to be part of an anonymous internet blob to achieve something. While it may be able to pressure some companies into changing, the ones you really want on your side are people in the industry. Talk to them, as a person to another person.

 

[Haerthan]

NO.
For the following reasons, (in my opinion, so take with a grain of salt):
1) The entire thing was tainted from the BEGINNING, due to its sexist nature
2) The regressive nature of its discourse (non-political games? REALLY????)
3) The shit they have done (the anti-GG has done it too- I apologize for those idiots)
4) GG members being Breitbart, some clear Neo-Nazis
5) Their ATTEMPTS TO SILENCE OPPOSING VIEWS (such as emailing the ad sponsors of Polygon)

These are just some of the top of my head. Needless to say, you can still do it, but DO NOT DISCLOSE IT. THe entire mess has left a HUGE imprint on the community (ironic given its little size)

 

[Batou667]

A question for the OP. Why do you feel the specific need to be part of a movement with no structure, leadership or unified goals

Yeah, and when the OP has answered that, he should also think about why he wants to be part of GamerGate.

*b'dum tish*

Seriously though, perhaps that's a more apt comparison than some people think. People who choose to identify as Feminist don't shoulder the burden for every last crazy TERF and Female Supremacist, and likewise you can be concerned about collusion and integrity in gaming without endorsing the worst of the harassment and death threats.

Choose your own corner of the movement that aligns with your views and values, and f**k anybody who tells you you're "doing it wrong". And perhaps the people who are insisting that GamerGate is inherently tainted as a whole due to the actions of a minority of people under its banner, and yet would vigorously deny the same logic applied to Feminism, should think twice about the consistency and impartiality of their views.

 

[NPC009]

Seriously though, perhaps that's a more apt comparison than some people think. People who choose to identify as Feminist don't shoulder the burden for every last crazy TERF and Female Supremacist, and likewise you can be concerned about collusion and integrity in gaming without endorsing the worst of the harassment and death threats.

It's not quite the same thing. Feminism is a collection of movements with a common goal, and has been around for over 150 years. GamerGate is hashtag les than a year old that attracted a wide array of people and turned into some sort of movement with no clear goals beyond a vague 'more ethics in game journalism'. The ones with fringe ideas or who were simply looking for some lulz managed to draw most of the attention and the whole hashtag when to the shitter almost as soon as it was started.

What I don't get is that the people who are genuinly interested in improving game journalism don't start a new movement. One that doesn't smell like the rotten eggs that dominate GamerGate. Set clear goals, get organised. There are many things you can do without mailbombs, doxxing and other nasty shit. For instance, there are many sites out there that offer little transparacy on where review copies come from or how long they were played. Start asking for that with e-mails, petitions and so on. You're way more likely to be taken seriously when your demands are clear and reasonable, and you're not hanging out with Internet Assholes Anonymous.

 

[NPC009]

#GamerGate has already achieved victories for ethics in gaming journalism. Many sites have already revised their policies to be more transparent. They've also praised and supported sites that hold themselves to ethical standards.

Back when GamerGate was something to consider, yes, but nowadays it seems to represented by some very vocal nutcases who demand things like all games being made, experienced and reviewed in a vacuum.

If you don't agree with those people and their practices, why stick to a movement they have come to represent? It's not like it's GG or nothing. Start your own thing, free of of the GG stigma. Why taint very valid goals and opinions with the insanity that is GG?

In other words, it's as Batou667 said: holding the entirety of one group responsible for the actions of a few bad eggs while not applying the same standard to another group.

Few? They seem to be the majority on any forum I visit that still accepts GG discussion. Of course, the fringe tends to be very vocal, but since there's not real structure to GG it's hard to say if the group is really as small as other GG'ers claim it to be.

Also, many people assume feminism is exactly what those rotten eggs claim it to be. Sad but true. With that example in mind, why want to same for 'people who want more transparancy in game journalism'... ists?