Poll: Case Study of Japanese Media: Fetishes as Character Basis for Personality and Abilities

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

While most characters are tended to be easily filed into corresponding stereotypes or whatever word, phrase you want to use. It does seem that from Japan, it tends to lean more into fetishistic stereotypes instead of character, if that sentence made any sense.

Then again, there are many moments where that's completely wrong, but it feels as a rule of thumb, it's not.

So a follow up question is "why,why do the Japanese love fetishistic stereotypes more than characters (I would argue though that they still can make characters from these fetishes but in most fanservice fare, that's not the case)?"

Conversly, It could be asked, why American media doesn't do it that often?

 

[TheIceQueen]

As someone who's an expert on fetishes, those aren't fetishes. Those are just character stereotypes. Now, spanking is a fetish. Bondage is a fetish. Crossdressing is a fetish. Petplay is a fetish. Footplay is a fe(e)tish. "Gothic vampire" could certainly be a fetish, I guess, but it's far more likely that it's just being used as a archetype.

So, this thread is pretty disappointing. I thought it was going to be about actual kinks, which would have been fun to discuss.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

As someone who's an expert on fetishes, those aren't fetishes. Those are just character stereotypes. Now, spanking is a fetish. Bondage is a fetish. Crossdressing is a fetish. Petplay is a fetish. "Gothic vampire" could certainly be a fetish, I guess, but it's far more likely that it's just being used as a archetype.

So, this thread is pretty disappointing. I thought it was going to be about actual kinks, which would have been fun to discuss.

I see, apologies but I have to deal with Bishonen, loli, kemonomini, cyborgs and various other stuff that feels like its meant to pander to otaku and NEET and it's starting to become unnerving how some of the characters I like are made with some shallow intentions.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

While most characters are tended to be easily filed into corresponding stereotypes or whatever word, phrase you want to use. It does seem that from Japan, it tends to lean more into fetishistic stereotypes instead of character, if that sentence made any sense.

Then again, there are many moments where that's completely wrong, but it feels as a rule of thumb, it's not.

So a follow up question is "why,why do the Japanese love fetishistic stereotypes more than characters (I would argue though that they still can make characters from these fetishes but in most fanservice fare, that's not the case)?"

Conversly, It could be asked, why American media doesn't do it that often?

Personally, because pointless pandering is just hollow and annoying more so then anything. Although, America does it as well to it's own fair share, but it's less... blatant. Not to mention America is a fair bit... more conservative on that front.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

While most characters are tended to be easily filed into corresponding stereotypes or whatever word, phrase you want to use. It does seem that from Japan, it tends to lean more into fetishistic stereotypes instead of character, if that sentence made any sense.

Then again, there are many moments where that's completely wrong, but it feels as a rule of thumb, it's not.

So a follow up question is "why,why do the Japanese love fetishistic stereotypes more than characters (I would argue though that they still can make characters from these fetishes but in most fanservice fare, that's not the case)?"

Conversly, It could be asked, why American media doesn't do it that often?

Personally, because pointless pandering is just hollow and annoying more so then anything. Although, America does it as well to it's own fair share, but it's less... blatant. Not to mention America is a fair bit... more conservative on that front.

I find it ironic that the country that is actually having a declining birth rate and has many people saying they don't want women is producing the crazy fanserivce crap

 

[TheIceQueen]

As someone who's an expert on fetishes, those aren't fetishes. Those are just character stereotypes. Now, spanking is a fetish. Bondage is a fetish. Crossdressing is a fetish. Petplay is a fetish. "Gothic vampire" could certainly be a fetish, I guess, but it's far more likely that it's just being used as a archetype.

So, this thread is pretty disappointing. I thought it was going to be about actual kinks, which would have been fun to discuss.

I see, apologies but I have to deal with Bishonen, loli, kemonomini, cyborgs and various other stuff that feels like its meant to pander to otaku and NEET and it's starting to become unnerving how some of the characters I like are made with some shallow intentions.

Well, of course it's meant to pander. A lot of things in shows are meant to pander, characters included. I remember that Fox made the creators of House create that Vogler character that was the scary black CEO who could breathe down House's neck and threaten to fire House just so the show could have a villain, even though the creators didn't want that or the show didn't need it, with the point being the villain was meant to grab more viewers.

Producing an anime is done with making money in mind and sometimes studios think that to make more money, you have to find a way to appeal to people, and sometimes these methods are low common denominator ones. It's not exactly surprising or anything new.

Lolis are the closest thing to fetish that you've mentioned, though.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

As someone who's an expert on fetishes, those aren't fetishes. Those are just character stereotypes. Now, spanking is a fetish. Bondage is a fetish. Crossdressing is a fetish. Petplay is a fetish. "Gothic vampire" could certainly be a fetish, I guess, but it's far more likely that it's just being used as a archetype.

So, this thread is pretty disappointing. I thought it was going to be about actual kinks, which would have been fun to discuss.

I see, apologies but I have to deal with Bishonen, loli, kemonomini, cyborgs and various other stuff that feels like its meant to pander to otaku and NEET and it's starting to become unnerving how some of the characters I like are made with some shallow intentions.

Well, of course it's meant to pander. A lot of things in shows are meant to pander, characters included. I remember that Fox made the creators of House create that Vogler character that was the scary black CEO who could breathe down House's neck and threaten to fire House just so the show could have a villain, even though the creators didn't want that or the show didn't need it, with the point being the villain was meant to grab more viewers.

Producing an anime is done with making money in mind and sometimes studios think that to make more money, you have to find a way to appeal to people, and sometimes these methods are low common denominator ones. It's not exactly surprising or anything new.

Lolis are the closest thing to fetish that you've mentioned, though.

I guess, but I think we can agree it's annoying at times when they treat us like idiots

 

[SuperSuperSuperGuy]

Perhaps Blazblue may be more self aware but I have a feeling games like Hyperdemension Neptunia or Senran Kagura are doing the sexuality for the simple titilation of NEET and Otaku.

While I'm not so sure about Senran Kagura, Hyperdimension Neptunia is at least as self-aware as BlazBlue is, though it's expressed in a different way. Neptunia is an affectionate parody game; it does not take itself seriously at all. Thus, it embraces the idea of gratuitous fanservice and makes fun of it at the same time. Besides, the characters aren't just based on fanservice; each of the four main characters represent a gaming console, albeit with Neptune representing a hypothetical one, and draw inspiration from that, as well, and since it's a parody game, each character is meant to embody and exaggerate certain tropes for the sake of comedy. The biggest difference between the BlazBlue and Neptunia characters is that Neptunia doesn't have the serious moments that BlazBlue does, so the characters aren't really as deep or rounded as they could be, since they don't really have opportunities to express the darker parts of their personalities.

Take it from the guy whose avatar is Neptune herself from Neptunia: it's not all that much worse than BlazBlue. It's mostly just different in tone.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Perhaps Blazblue may be more self aware but I have a feeling games like Hyperdemension Neptunia or Senran Kagura are doing the sexuality for the simple titilation of NEET and Otaku.

While I'm not so sure about Senran Kagura, Hyperdimension Neptunia is at least as self-aware as BlazBlue is, though it's expressed in a different way. Neptunia is an affectionate parody game; it does not take itself seriously at all. Thus, it embraces the idea of gratuitous fanservice and makes fun of it at the same time. Besides, the characters aren't just based on fanservice; each of the four main characters represent a gaming console, albeit with Neptune representing a hypothetical one, and draw inspiration from that, as well, and since it's a parody game, each character is meant to embody and exaggerate certain tropes for the sake of comedy. The biggest difference between the BlazBlue and Neptunia characters is that Neptunia doesn't have the serious moments that BlazBlue does, so the characters aren't really as deep or rounded as they could be, since they don't really have opportunities to express the darker parts of their personalities.

Take it from the guy whose avatar is Neptune herself from Neptunia: it's not all that much worse than BlazBlue. It's mostly just different in tone.

I guess that's my own issue, I really hate light hearted stuff, Seeing character getting broken, beaten, and rising to fight again (see what happens around Terumi) is more engaging for me that a lot of parody stuff. I suppose though that it's a valid way of using fanservice

 

[Lupine]

Archetypes, this thread needs to learn to use this word. Most of those things are character archetypes, character archetypes can be genre specific, culturally specific, or what have you, but they aren't the same thing as stereotypes.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

How are those fetishes exactly? People create characters that they would find attractive or cute, sure, but I don't really see your point.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

How are those fetishes exactly? People create characters that they would find attractive or cute, sure, but I don't really see your point.

I am starting to think that maybe fetish was not the right word. Would trope, or archtype be better?

 

[Therumancer]

I think fetish is the wrong term here, at the most these characters are adopting something a person could in theory have a fetish about. What's more I do not consider personality stereotypes to be "fetishes" but just that stereotypes, and those stereotypes tend to be grounded in a degree of reality. You do see a lot of the same personality types and behaviors recurring throughout humanity, and indeed there are entire sciences devoted to studying this and finding ways to control or exploit it. Some people find various types of personalities fun or appealing, and indeed some of the more positive ones are popular with a lot of people (obviously) but that's just human nature, and not really the result of a fetish.

When it comes to Anime it should be noted that it has it's own stereotypes and tropes, which while obvious now, was something people argued against back when Anime was starting to become more popular and mainstream, simply because it was new and reasonable fresh in the US at the time. Anime DOES re-use a lot of the same basic personalities for a lot
of characters that fill certain roles, especially when they get the job done.

That said there HAS been Anime where characters have literally been based around fetishes, "Speed Grapher" got into this for example, where say someone's rubber fetish became the basis for their powers. The characters mentioned above might fit certain stereotypes, but I can't say any of them are inherently fetishistic. Even the "gothic Lolita" thing as that is an actual fashion style that can be done a lot of ways, and is practiced by people with a lot of different personalities (and even seen along a lot of characters). Sure, some people REALLY like the look, but that can be said of a lot of different fashions and alternative styles, it's no more of a fetish than Punk, Goth, or whatever, although you might find it unusually appealing when done well by a person you find attractive or otherwise like.

That's my thoughts at any rate.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

How are those fetishes exactly? People create characters that they would find attractive or cute, sure, but I don't really see your point.

I am starting to think that maybe fetish was not the right word. Would trope, or archtype be better?

I was thinking something along the lines of "stereotype" more like.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I think fetish is the wrong term here, at the most these characters are adopting something a person could in theory have a fetish about. What's more I do not consider personality stereotypes to be "fetishes" but just that stereotypes, and those stereotypes tend to be grounded in a degree of reality. You do see a lot of the same personality types and behaviors recurring throughout humanity, and indeed there are entire sciences devoted to studying this and finding ways to control or exploit it. Some people find various types of personalities fun or appealing, and indeed some of the more positive ones are popular with a lot of people (obviously) but that's just human nature, and not really the result of a fetish.

When it comes to Anime it should be noted that it has it's own stereotypes and tropes, which while obvious now, was something people argued against back when Anime was starting to become more popular and mainstream, simply because it was new and reasonable fresh in the US at the time. Anime DOES re-use a lot of the same basic personalities for a lot
of characters that fill certain roles, especially when they get the job done.

That said there HAS been Anime where characters have literally been based around fetishes, "Speed Grapher" got into this for example, where say someone's rubber fetish became the basis for their powers. The characters mentioned above might fit certain stereotypes, but I can't say any of them are inherently fetishistic. Even the "gothic Lolita" thing as that is an actual fashion style that can be done a lot of ways, and is practiced by people with a lot of different personalities (and even seen along a lot of characters). Sure, some people REALLY like the look, but that can be said of a lot of different fashions and alternative styles, it's no more of a fetish than Punk, Goth, or whatever, although you might find it unusually appealing when done well by a person you find attractive or otherwise like.

That's my thoughts at any rate.

Thank you for the post, it is starting to look like Fetish is the wrong term

My issue with all these tropes is that there are too many writers who take the lazy route and don't expand on the trope to create a character. This is especially problematic with fanservice shows in which female characters don't have any personality development and males are vacant and mere self insert without a real personality. Given the popularity of shows like this, the trend i fear is that more vapid shows will be made and artistic shows will die

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Summery of all posts to this point:

A) it appears the wording was incorrect, Stereotype or trope would have worked better

B) time for a new questions "What characters are able to go beyond their tropes and become fully fledged characters with an arc and personality and which characters are only the trope with no growth or personality?"

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

How are those fetishes exactly? People create characters that they would find attractive or cute, sure, but I don't really see your point.

I am starting to think that maybe fetish was not the right word. Would trope, or archtype be better?

Archetype's probably about right.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

Archetypes, this thread needs to learn to use this word. Most of those things are character archetypes, character archetypes can be genre specific, culturally specific, or what have you, but they aren't the same thing as stereotypes.

Archetypes, thank you! Geez, I couldn't remember what the word was, but I was looking for it.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

If we?re just talking about Japanese media here (and, more specifically, anime, since it seems to have bled into video games more over time?you can even see this with the progression of the Final Fantasy series? character aesthetics), then yes, things like ?tsundere? and female characters apparently oblivious to how apparently unintentionally sexy they?re being can get annoying at times.

But I just accept as part of the culture, and that, perhaps, it?s not aimed at me. I mean, yes, there?s a time and place?if you want to beat off to lolis, there?s plenty of internet or doujinshi material available for specifically that purpose?but it?s become so integrated that it?s practically a tradition. And people like traditions.

As someone who's an expert on fetishes, those aren't fetishes. Those are just character stereotypes. Now, spanking is a fetish. Bondage is a fetish. Crossdressing is a fetish. Petplay is a fetish. Footplay is a fe(e)tish. "Gothic vampire" could certainly be a fetish, I guess, but it's far more likely that it's just being used as a archetype.

You mean crossdressing can be a fetish. I think nowadays, due to the various connotations around certain words, the term for someone who dresses in clothing of the opposite sex for simple fun are "crossdressers", while those that do it as a sexual kink are "transvestites" (or "transvestic fetishists", but that's a bit of a mouthful).

Anyway, carry on.