Poll: Chivalry

[BGH122]

Also, while the notion of Chivalry being sexist is more than accurate, I wouldn't mind seeing it practiced by some of the kids I work with. A boy in my classroom would probably fart in a girls face rather than entertain the thought of actually opening a door for her.

But, would he do the same to another boy? If he's simply treating the girls (however nastily) as he treats the boys then that's progress! Now all that needs to be worked on is making him understand why he should treat everyone with a little more respect.

Most females are big girls. They can open their doors, pull out their chairs, and slaughter their own boars for dinner. People shouldn't be expected to do this for them. Now, if a male wants to do it because he wants to do it (or he like beheading his own swine) then fine, but if her does it because he thinks women can't THEN it is sexism. I don't think chivalry is dead and I think it has its place in our society(however small). I just don't think it should be the norm.

That was amusing, if a little terrifying. However, it appears to me that it is not only the case that chivalry is sexist if (and only if) it's based on a presumption of male superiority: it is sexist if it assumes a quality is present within women based upon their gender. Chivalry seems underlyingly sexist, because when the chivalrous is asked to explain why he caters his politeness to women he has to explain what quality it is that women posses or lack universally (without predicating this upon their gender) in order to justify chivalry and this does not appear to be possible without regressing to sexism.

 

[CHangedUsername]

Chivalry is dead.
Feminism killed it.
I buried it.

 

[Good morning blues]

What we know as "chivalry" is pretty cleanly divorced from the concept as it was known and practiced hundreds of years ago.

I think everyone should be kind and respectful to everyone by default. There's no reason to treat any specific people any better than anyone else.

 

[aPod]

Im sorry but holding a door for a women does not mean i am a sexist, i dont have to be an asshole to everyone just to make sure i treat everyone equall. I do agree though being chivalrous is little more than an attempt to attract the opposite, or if you swing that way your own. (Im including homosexuals in my arguement so i can cleary be seen as fair and being equal, since there seems to be an awful lot of emphasis on that here.)

We are not equall.

We are born different, with different talents and abilities, some of us are better looking or have a high IQ but one thing in life is very clear to me, we arent all equals... should we all be given the same rights? Yes... but dont try to shove this assinine bull about equality especially something like chivalry... when clearly its just a matter of manners and personally the day having manners makes you a douchebag shovenistic pig is the day i wish all of you die. Why? Because thats the only time any of us are ever equal.

 

[BGH122]

Wow, that was a very well thought out argument. Chivalry was prevalent before equality, but now that women have equality, why is it still needed? I think people practise it because they are hanging on to the past, or they were raised that way.

Anyhoo, I agree with you 100%.

Thank you, and I agree with your claim. It does appear that the number one response to 'why are you chivalrous' is 'daddy said I should be'.

It's an outdated concept that's just a more subtle form of showing the desire for sex and keeping women down. Anyone who does this needs to ask themselves if they do it because it's polite, or because they're hoping to get some in return later. If it's the former, then why does it only seem to apply to girlfriends and attractive women (and if it's a girlfriend then the male must find her attractive)? So doesn't being a chivilrous person make you just as much a douchebag as the people you claim to hate because all they want is sex?

Exactly! I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying that it keeps women down, although due to the birdcage analogy above perhaps it does to some degree.

 

[That One Six]

Guess the quote! "Chivalry is dead." "They say the same thing about me! I wonder if there's any connection..."

Also, I try to be chivalrous when it benefits me in some way.

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

If we're talking about the old "holding doors open for them", or "offering my jacket/jumper when it's cold"... Then I guess that makes me chivalrous.
Note, however, that while I'll give priority to a girl in this regardEDIT: regardless of their looks. I thought I'd better add this in, as many people seem to be saying that guys will only do this stuff if he's hoping to "get with her", or simply gain her favor in some other, but related, way. Then I agree - that's just being a douchebag, but it's also not right in my books either. Don't lump me in with them., I'll still offer to a male. It's become a habit of mine to hold the door open for anyone that's close enough behind me to warrant it, and if a good male friend of mine is shivering while I have a jacket or jumper on, I'll still offer it to them.

As said already (to a certain extent at least), a lot of what was once considered "chivalrous", like my aforementioned examples, are now just common courtesy.
Though a lot of that, much like chivalry, seems to be almost extinct too. :S

 

[BGH122]

Im sorry but holding a door for a women does not mean i am a sexist, i dont have to be an asshole to everyone just to make sure i treat everyone equall. I do agree though being chivalrous is little more than an attempt to attract the opposite, or if you swing that way your own. (Im including homosexuals in my arguement so i can cleary be seen as fair and being equal, since there seems to be an awful lot of emphasis on that here.)

We are not equall.

We are born different, with different talents and abilities, some of us are better looking or have a high IQ but one thing in life is very clear to me, we arent all equals... should we all be given the same rights? Yes... but dont try to shove this assinine bull about equality especially something like chivalry... when clearly its just a matter of manners and personally the day having manners makes you a douchebag shovenistic pig is the day i wish all of you die. Why? Because thats the only time any of us are ever equal.

Your argument does not work. Firstly you state:

i dont have to be an asshole to everyone just to make sure i treat everyone equall

This presumes that, were you to treat women equally to men (i.e. if you lacked chivalry), you'd be an arse to everyone ergo you are currently an arse selectively to men.

Secondly, you claim that we are all born with genetic differences which mould our personalities to some degree, certainly true, however, this is not true of gender. Gender does not predicate anything beyond three central points (I'm quoting the 46 study meta analysis by Hyde et al (2005) University of Wisconsin), aggression, sexual attitudes and motor skills. I'll link a previous post of mine in the spoilers here if you wish to see the proof. Ergo, if gender is not a predicator of personality traits then your arguments fails.

Lastly, you claim that I (I believe this is your claim, you started ranting and I got a little confused as to whom the subject of your rant was) want us all to be unpolite. This is most certainly untrue, I want us to be equally, pleasantly, polite to everyone regardless of gender.

The study:

Spoiler

Gender. That's another thing I want people to shut the fuck up about. The American media is obsessed with gender. I can't watch a damn television show without seeing men being thrown into one of the following stereotypical roles: competitive, immature, aggressive (this one has some truth to it at least, I'll explain later), sex obsessed, unemotional/emotionally insensitive and so on. Even more irritating (and nonsensical) is the fact that women are always portrayed as the tonic to these masculine gender defects. However, women don't get off scot-free either; women in the media are usually portrayed as one of the following: irrational, innocent/naive (may not sound like a bad thing, but innocence and infantilization go hand in hand and no-one wants to be denigrated to the position of a child), stupid and, more often than not, unpleasant/bitchy.

This is really annoying because a spiffing brilliant 46 study meta-analysis by Hyde et al (2005) of the University of Wisconsin discovered that there were no statistically significant differences between genders in any behavioural or cognitive areas other than aggression (moderate to strong correlation with males, especially when aware of observation (0.58-0.64 correlation on all types of aggression)), sexual attitudes (men don't tend to see masturbation as 'wrong' and don't tend to consider casual sex to be 'wrong' either (interestingly, despite the media portrayal, Hyde et al found that sexual satisfaction (amount and pleasure gained) leaned very slightly more towards women than men)) and lastly motor-skills and complex shape manipulation (being able to mentally rotate and manipulate 3-D shapes, just seems that women aren't usually created in such a way as to be neurologically geared towards this sort of task). A recent study of testosterone has also shined doubts upon its efficacy in causing aggression, as it was found that women in a blind trial were significantly more likely to exhibit aggressive/competitive tendencies when told they'd been given testosterone (when in fact none had been administered) than when they actually received testosterone. Basically, gender has jack shit to do with anything; the way your life has treated you is the most crucial factor in what makes you different from other people in nearly all aspects.

 

[Floodclaw]

I agree with several of the above posters concerning the opinion that while chivalry is indeed archaic, I believe that being nice to everyone should be the norm, not to one specific gender.

I, for example, be nice to everyone. As cliched as it is, I hold doors open. For everyone. I give way to someone if given the chance. Of course, this could simply be me being all omnisexual and thus trying to court everyone at the same time....
Or that could be a complete load of broken routers.

Reiterated, just be nice. It gets you nice places with everything.

 

[CHangedUsername]

http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/women-are-obsessed-with-sex/

This explains why I don't bother with chivalry quite well.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

But, would he do the same to another boy? If he's simply treating the girls (however nastily) as he treats the boys then that's progress! Now all that needs to be worked on is making him understand why he should treat everyone with a little more respect.

My god, I hope you're kidding.

No, he--meaning they, as in ALL the boys--wouldn't dream of doing anything considerably kind toward a girl. Either because she is beneath them or because they don't want their "tough guy" image ruined. I'm still trying to figure out which.

 

[gamefreakbsp]

What the hell is wrong with you people? Did some gentleman come by and steal you girlfriends with an act of chivalry?

I always admired chivalry because it is an extension of how people would idealy act in every situation. I hold the door for anyone, but chivalry is just taking it an extra step for a lady. Ridiculous claims of sexism aside, I just cannot see how that is such a bad thing.

 

[BGH122]

But, would he do the same to another boy? If he's simply treating the girls (however nastily) as he treats the boys then that's progress! Now all that needs to be worked on is making him understand why he should treat everyone with a little more respect.

My god, I hope you're kidding.

No, he--meaning they, as in ALL the boys--wouldn't dream of doing anything considerably kind toward a girl. Either because she is beneath them or because they don't want their "tough guy" image ruined. I'm still trying to figure out which.

This is peculiar. However, if they are specifically targeting girls for negative behaviour which they would exhibit towards boys then that too is sexist. However, if they are equally unpleasant to the boys then it is not.

May I ask, are you a teacher or a student in this class?

 

[CHangedUsername]

Ridiculous claims of sexism aside, I just cannot see how that is such a bad thing.

Because they've been brainwashed by femnazis.

They've been told their entire lives that men only want sex. And by being nice no matter how pure your intentions you are secretly trying to get laid.

I treat everyone well. But somehow when I am nice to a woman she thinks I want in her pants. Women are brainwashed and have a sense of entitlement due to feminism.

Question: I'm nice to a girl. She thnks I want sex. WHo brought sex into the picture then?
Answer: not me. Her. Women are obsessed with sex.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

If we're talking about the old "holding doors open for them", or "offering my jacket/jumper when it's cold"... Then I guess that makes me chivalrous.
Note, however, that while I'll give priority to a girl in this regard, I'll still offer to a male. It's become a habit of mine to hold the door open for anyone that's close enough behind me to warrant it, and if a good male friend of mine is shivering while I have a jacket or jumper on, I'll still offer it to them.

As said already (to a certain extent at least), a lot of what was once considered "chivalrous", like my aforementioned examples, are now just common courtesy.
Though a lot of that, much like chivalry, seems to be almost extinct too. :S

Pretty much this. Although "common courtesy" it seems, much like common sense and common decency are about as common as snow in Brazil.

 

[WhamBamSam]

I'd say that it still has a place in society, but that it should perhaps be more subtle. That is to say, running all the way around the car to open her door is a little over the top, but holding open a door for the benefit of watching her walk through it is mutually beneficial and fairly innocuous. Also, you do not hit girls.

More precisely, what I feel is sexist is the trivialization of chivalry. Going through these archaic motions out of habit is what gives the impression that women aren't capable of doing these things themselves. It might be demeaning when done all the time but ought to be flattering when saved up for the proper occasion. Make her feel special now and again, but don't fawn over the poor girl.

 

[Amberella]

In today's world, from what I have experienced myself, a good portion of men are jerks. With that said, I think perhaps more guys should be nice and actually treat women with respect and courtesy. Guys these days just don't know how to treat a girl right...etc. Not saying it's all guys though. I found a really great guy, who slowly wooed me as it were and treats me great. <3

I just really hate how in todays society, men just aren't into 'love', but are more into the physical part of a relationship. I mean, what happened to wanting to find someone to spend the rest of your life with? Just no one these days really wants to settle down, or they marry for all the wrong reasons and it ends up in divorce. Probably getting off subject but I feel I must say all this. xD And I am done with that. Onto something else.

I want everyone to treat eachother with respect, women and men alike. And with the whole opening doors thing, I'm so going to open the door for my Tom darling. ;D Of course though, I'm a romantic, if it wasn't obvious. Tom likes to say I'm drunk on love. But I'm just drunk on his love. :3

 

[shizuka6288]

Ok this old chivalry debate is getting olllld. I hold the doors open for people. I was raised that way. I hardly get thank you's not because chivalry isn't appreciated. People aren't really nice. I swear to god the day a girl gets on my ass about holding the door open for her im gonna wait for her to take two steps and slam the door in her face to go "***** I Was Just Being Polite. GTF OVER IT". I do not include anyone who say thank you.

 

[CHangedUsername]

In today's world, from what I have experienced myself, a good portion of men are jerks. With that said, I think perhaps more guys should be nice and actually treat women with respect and courtesy. Guys these days just don't know how to treat a girl right...etc. Not saying it's all guys though. I found a really great guy, who slowly wooed me as it were and treats me great. <3

I just really hate how in todays society, men just aren't into 'love', but are more into the physical part of a relationship. I mean, what happened to wanting to find someone to spend the rest of your life with? Just no one these days really wants to settle down, or they marry for all the wrong reasons and it ends up in divorce. Probably getting off subject but I feel I must say all this. xD And I am done with that. Onto something else.

I want everyone to treat eachother with respect, women and men alike. And with the whole opening doors thing, I'm so going to open the door for my Tom darling. ;D Of course though, I'm a romantic, if it wasn't obvious. Tom likes to say I'm drunk on love. But I'm just drunk on his love. :3

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