To be honest the whole series has rubbed me wrong.Blargh McBlargh said:
I know this is purely subjective, but I don't think it's going to last they other RPGs like The Elder Scrolls have.
Poll: CNN: Console Gaming is Dying
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I know this is purely subjective, but I don't think it's going to last they other RPGs like The Elder Scrolls have.
You're correct, sitting on a couch with a controller isn't going anywhere. But since when was a couch and controller exclusive to consoles anyway? Especially lately, playing on PC with a controller requires very little effort (plug in a 360 controller - job done)sunsetspawn said:Lemme tell you a little bit about Sandy, the big fuck hurricane that fucked the eastern seaboard right in its ear. Well, for almost a week I had no power and got my kicks with books, a laptop, and an iPad. The iPad didn't last long because I'm not into sitting with a device in my lap with my neck bent at a 90 degree angle. I also can't deal with computer gaming because of the whole seated-like-a-jerkoff thing.The Comfy Chair said:Argh, conflicted. A lack of consoles would force the gaming industry to once again discover something other than low risk heavily marketed sludge, but it would also make people who are extremely adamant that it's 'CONSOLE OR NOTHING!' depressed. In the end, i may think they're narrow minded and losing out on so much with that mindset, but they're happy i guess
Unfortunately I have been forced into some PC gaming because of Deus Ex, Gothic 2&3, Nehrim, Vegastrike, etc, and I HATE THAT SHIT. It's just so frustrating sitting all hunched over like an assfuck putzing around with a mouse and keyboard that just sitting down to play becomes a chore. And investing in a special PC gaming station with a magic chair and desk that lifts the keyboard and mouse up to my sternum is just unreasonable.
I'm assuming when you say "console" you mean big, stylish box with a Sony or Microsoft label emblazoned across it, because couch (or Comfy Chair), TV, and thumbsticks ain't goin anywhere. It could be that Ouya will change the business model, or maybe TVs will come equipped with CPUs & GFX cards, or perhaps new contenders will enter the field, or maybe, and this shit sounds far fetched, but maybe games will be fully stored, processed, and rendered ELSEWHERE while you play it on whatever medium you choose, whenever and whereever you choose, via broadband, in which case COUCHTVTHUMBSTICKS will still be used most often. The bottom line is that "consoles" and PCs have existed side by side for about 30 years, mobile gaming entered the fray about 25 years ago, and that fucking couch has been the deciding factor in the dominant market.
Maybe I'm biased though, because my fucking couch is DOPE, SON...
WORD!
The argument should be about whether the current corporate structure of gaming is sustainable, and I don't think it is. The current market is a bloated behemoth in which creativity is a dying virtue and boardrooms control artistic direction.
And don't get me started on Mobile Gaming, that shit should be renamed Mobile-Distraction-that-you-use-while-use-on-line-at-Starbucks-because-the-barista-is-a-dude-today-so-there-are-no-tits-to-look-at.
Anyway, the bottom line is that the "console" isn't the argument. The argument is the current corporate structure of gaming
I agree with you about streaming too, that, once enough people have a stable internet connection above 10mbps anyway. I doubt TV's will nver come with gpu's/cpu's powerful enough for games to be truly relevant though, for a whole host of reasons which basically is the same reason why the next gen is going to be so performance starved.However, the whole mobile gaming thing is a bit different to what you're expecting for the reason you also think the Ouya is relevant (an android device the same as a phone). Like I said, controller TV couch isn't exclusive to consoles: you can, right now, play gta 3 at 720p on your TV with a controller on an android phone if you buy a hdmi connector and a bluetooth controller (if you root the phone you can use a PS3 one as far as i'm aware). It's not far fetched to think that could be the future of any gaming device that isn't a hobbyist machine (i.e. a PC) or streaming.
Consoles will disappear, but gaming wont, ESPECIALLY the kind of gaming you enjoy. As you say, playing games on a sofa is a large market. Not quite sure if it's 'dominant' since dominant implies it's the biggest market - but there are roughly a quarter of a billion 'gaming' (>5x faster than a console) level DX11 gpu's floating around sold since 2009, so it's debateable. But it's a big one, especially in the US, so it's not going to go uncatered for. But as long as PC exists that will always be available - no matter what happens, since PC is the only platform that you can set it up to do exactly what you want it to. But i doubt we'll ever be in the situation where PC is the ONLY way to do it, especially with the alternatives listed.
Console gaming IS declining (I'd not begin to claim it's dying), but it has nothing to do with casual smart phone games that real gamers don't care about. Console gaming is declining because game tech has pretty much stalled, and consequently the average PC is catching up to being able to handle even high end gaming.
Steam has made PC gaming so massively user friendly and even cheap...
The console wars are basically over. No one is really fighting about what's more awesome.
No one cares too much about the Wii U, the PS4, or the XBOX 720. The "new exciting features" parades are leaving everyone saying "meh".
Exclusives, the bread and butter of the consoles, are slowly dying off. People are going to start playing their games on whichever platform they happen to own and like best, rather than having to buy specifics consoles to be able to play specific games.
Technological convergence is driving TVs to become computers, drive PCs to be able to watch TV, turning cell phones and e-readers into tablet computers, turning consoles into computers, etc etc etc etc.
EVERYTHING is becoming computers. We're moving inexorably towards having all-purpose computers to serve as telephone, TV, and game console as regular features, and eliminating the need for the original devices to exist.
Hell, our refrigerators are even starting to have computers. Our cars, cameras...
Console gaming isn't going to suddenly fall apart and die, but it certainly is going to be slowly phased out.
On the other hand, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with shitty games like Angry Birds.
Steam has made PC gaming so massively user friendly and even cheap...
The console wars are basically over. No one is really fighting about what's more awesome.
No one cares too much about the Wii U, the PS4, or the XBOX 720. The "new exciting features" parades are leaving everyone saying "meh".
Exclusives, the bread and butter of the consoles, are slowly dying off. People are going to start playing their games on whichever platform they happen to own and like best, rather than having to buy specifics consoles to be able to play specific games.
Technological convergence is driving TVs to become computers, drive PCs to be able to watch TV, turning cell phones and e-readers into tablet computers, turning consoles into computers, etc etc etc etc.
EVERYTHING is becoming computers. We're moving inexorably towards having all-purpose computers to serve as telephone, TV, and game console as regular features, and eliminating the need for the original devices to exist.
Hell, our refrigerators are even starting to have computers. Our cars, cameras...
Console gaming isn't going to suddenly fall apart and die, but it certainly is going to be slowly phased out.
On the other hand, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with shitty games like Angry Birds.
Actually, you're the idiot here. Or, rather, you're showing a severe case of ignorance, which isn't the same thing at all unless it's willful. How do you think cost of living is determined? It's based on how much it costs to buy things like a house, food, insurance, and healthcare in a given country, but a high cost of living tends to imply high costs all over. Australians have a high cost of living, balanced out by a high wage. Therefore, everything in Oz has a higher dollar value, but a roughly equivalent cost of living adjusted value. In other words, it's not about charging more because someone's richer. It's about paying higher wages because stuff is more expensive.MagunBFP said:
Edit: Oh, and by the way, if you guys are only paying $100 for games, instead of the $120 you used to hear about, you're actually paying /less/ adjusted for cost of living than Americans are, since adjusted for cost of living, Australians make 15-20% less on average than Americans do, but the unadjusted premium you pay on games is only about 60%, instead of the 75-80% more you'd need to be charged for the price to be functionally equivalent.
To the poll, no they shouldnt stop writing, they just should get their facts together.
Put something who knows stuff about games and the industry on those articles, that's all you'd need.
And judging by all the blogs and websites on the net about these subjects, i doubt it's to hard to find someone.
Put something who knows stuff about games and the industry on those articles, that's all you'd need.
And judging by all the blogs and websites on the net about these subjects, i doubt it's to hard to find someone.
At face value, I thought it was claiming that consoles were giving way to PC gaming. That, I could understand. PC manufacturing costs are only going down and developers seem to slowly be heading towards handhelds, namely the 3DS, but consoles giving way to the iPhone is completely bunk. Some donkus at CNN doesn't seem to understand much having to do with games...
Topic of the Poll: No, I don't think they should. I like hearing other peoples' opinions, mostly because I have mine and I like to see what we agree on.
Thoughts on "Is Console Gaming Dying?": It's been dead for a long time, from a tech standpoint. Consoles are really just PCs with specific specs. I hear this exact same thing with PC gaming being dead. Personally, any games being played is good, regardless of machine they're getting played on, be it a console, PC, tablet, phone, what have you, but this whole dimorphism between PC and Console gaming is kind of silly, since we're basically just giving names for our gaming PCs.
Thoughts on "Is Console Gaming Dying?": It's been dead for a long time, from a tech standpoint. Consoles are really just PCs with specific specs. I hear this exact same thing with PC gaming being dead. Personally, any games being played is good, regardless of machine they're getting played on, be it a console, PC, tablet, phone, what have you, but this whole dimorphism between PC and Console gaming is kind of silly, since we're basically just giving names for our gaming PCs.
This happens every few years, before the 3DS came out they were saying handhelds were dying, then the 3DS smashed sales records, they were wrong, and if it does die out handheld gaming lives on with smartphone apps and tablets (personally I don't believe Nintendo will stop making handhelds until pokémon becomes unprofitable), they also said that this gen would fail and then the Wii happened.
Just let them have their soapbox, they're either right, in which case good for them, or history will repeat itself and in 5 years more WiiUs and PS4s will be under a house than there ever were Wiis or PS3s that existed
Captcha: Sonic Screwdriver. *I'm currently listening to the Doctor Who season 4 soundtrack....*
Just let them have their soapbox, they're either right, in which case good for them, or history will repeat itself and in 5 years more WiiUs and PS4s will be under a house than there ever were Wiis or PS3s that existed
Captcha: Sonic Screwdriver. *I'm currently listening to the Doctor Who season 4 soundtrack....*
I think console gaming is at a saturation point, not necessarily dying but rather becoming something other than just gaming. My PS3 for example has become more a media station than a gaming platform. I have a bunch of PS3 games that go untouched for months after release, but I watch the hell out of netflix and dvds/blurays on it. Same goes for my xbox 360.
My PC has become the dominant platform, mostly because of the games I can mod on it for fun, graphical updates (GTA4 is so much better with that beautiful gfx mod featured here and other sites, Skyrim's high res pack, Sleeping Dogs, etc.) plus I love my steam library.
And I get a lot of those games much cheaper most of the time.
But shiny graphics aren't the main reason why I chose my PC over console, I just haven't seen anything thats console exclusive in a long while that whets my appetite. Also the console market is dominated by stagnant IPs like Call of Duty... games that are made for profits sake, not for love of the game.
I think we're close to a 1980's market crash brought on by industrial fear of new IPs, which will be mitigated by the kickstarter-type market of games fueled by players not by producers. I even think the giant that is VALVe may take a giant hit if they don't release something other than new TF2 updates and sweeping HL3 under the rug and not releasing anything new and exciting.
We're in for a change in the market, and I think it will be for the better but its going to be rough.
Kingdoms of Amalur is a great example of how a decent game company is ruined by mismanagement at the highest level. The IP looked pretty damn solid but the studio just tanked anyway which is sad. I really thought more could have been done with that IP, and more could have come out of 38 Studios...
So we'll see, but I can guarantee there will be a shakeup, the dust will settle and games will rise above it. In other news, Nintendo will stay around because they're fucking Nintendo.
My PC has become the dominant platform, mostly because of the games I can mod on it for fun, graphical updates (GTA4 is so much better with that beautiful gfx mod featured here and other sites, Skyrim's high res pack, Sleeping Dogs, etc.) plus I love my steam library.
And I get a lot of those games much cheaper most of the time.
But shiny graphics aren't the main reason why I chose my PC over console, I just haven't seen anything thats console exclusive in a long while that whets my appetite. Also the console market is dominated by stagnant IPs like Call of Duty... games that are made for profits sake, not for love of the game.
I think we're close to a 1980's market crash brought on by industrial fear of new IPs, which will be mitigated by the kickstarter-type market of games fueled by players not by producers. I even think the giant that is VALVe may take a giant hit if they don't release something other than new TF2 updates and sweeping HL3 under the rug and not releasing anything new and exciting.
We're in for a change in the market, and I think it will be for the better but its going to be rough.
Kingdoms of Amalur is a great example of how a decent game company is ruined by mismanagement at the highest level. The IP looked pretty damn solid but the studio just tanked anyway which is sad. I really thought more could have been done with that IP, and more could have come out of 38 Studios...
So we'll see, but I can guarantee there will be a shakeup, the dust will settle and games will rise above it. In other news, Nintendo will stay around because they're fucking Nintendo.
When I look at the recent history of consoles, I wonder if we will see the same as what happened to arcades.
As like consoles made the arcades redundant when 16 and 32bit consoles made it so ppl could play their arcade games at home, rather than have to travel to the arcades and pay for a credit.
Back then arcades started to decline so arcades started to move away from standard stick and button games to specialised methods of controls in more specialised cabs, IE Virtual On twinsticks, sit down racers, lightgun games and dancing machines with the cost per credit skyrocketting both because the cabinets were more costly to buy but because less ppl played them. It's around that time I stopped going to the arcades because as a kid I couldn't afford the jump from 20p to 50p & £1 per credit.
Nowadays consoles in their current state look to be made redundant by new methods of gaming. PCs in the living room, Smart TVs, cloud gaming, smart phones which while held back by the lack of a pad, companies are starting to make controllers for them, and once they are connected up to the TV, it wont take long for more traditional games to follow.
This is why MS is less bothered about gaming and more about movies and other media as everything in the living room converges together. And why they are pushing hard with their own smartphone and the changes to Win8. The BS that MS is pulling with incorporating their own propriety digital store in Win8 means that there is a good chance MS will lock down Windows for games if the 720 is MS' last console (and plenty of time for MS to slowly trojan horse themselves). Valve has a good reason to be very worried for the future since even if Linux become a viable gaming platform, most ppl will stick with Windows because they use it to do other things. Hopefully Dual Boot Windows and Linux HP / Dell PCs could become a standard in the future.
As like consoles made the arcades redundant when 16 and 32bit consoles made it so ppl could play their arcade games at home, rather than have to travel to the arcades and pay for a credit.
Back then arcades started to decline so arcades started to move away from standard stick and button games to specialised methods of controls in more specialised cabs, IE Virtual On twinsticks, sit down racers, lightgun games and dancing machines with the cost per credit skyrocketting both because the cabinets were more costly to buy but because less ppl played them. It's around that time I stopped going to the arcades because as a kid I couldn't afford the jump from 20p to 50p & £1 per credit.
Nowadays consoles in their current state look to be made redundant by new methods of gaming. PCs in the living room, Smart TVs, cloud gaming, smart phones which while held back by the lack of a pad, companies are starting to make controllers for them, and once they are connected up to the TV, it wont take long for more traditional games to follow.
This is why MS is less bothered about gaming and more about movies and other media as everything in the living room converges together. And why they are pushing hard with their own smartphone and the changes to Win8. The BS that MS is pulling with incorporating their own propriety digital store in Win8 means that there is a good chance MS will lock down Windows for games if the 720 is MS' last console (and plenty of time for MS to slowly trojan horse themselves). Valve has a good reason to be very worried for the future since even if Linux become a viable gaming platform, most ppl will stick with Windows because they use it to do other things. Hopefully Dual Boot Windows and Linux HP / Dell PCs could become a standard in the future.
Actually, I specifically omitted PC indie games because the CNN, ugh, "article" was about console gaming specifically. I think that PC indie gaming is going pretty well, considering that quite a few indie console downloadable games were available on PC first (Braid, Trine, etc.). Also, I've avoided AAA PC titles entirely (because fuck always-on DRM) and decided to throw money at The Humble Bundle every time they email me.
Also, what makes you think that Microsoft might hate indie games? I heard it's just like the Apple developer ecosystem in that they charge you $100 and you can start using your 360 as a debug platform/get onto XBox Live. Unless that comment by Tim Schafer was true. You know, the claim that a single game patch costs a developer $40K. If that's the case then it seems that Microsoft hates all developers? I'm sure they have their reasons. Maybe.
So if a digital store, based in the US charges more to Australians then to Americans whats your excuse then??? There are no additional costs for a bricks and mortar store... no extra employees you need to pay Australian wages to... (I know this has been brought up before but...) you don't even need to physically produce a product... but still in Australia I will (relatively, because this is the case for most software not just games) pay about $100 - $120 for what you in America only pay $60 for. Given that the Australian dollar is worth just as much as the US dollar I can't see a legit reason for charging me twice as much, except I'm in a suit and you're in shorts and a singlet.Owyn_Merrilin said:
When it comes to a physical store, you are correct, I was unfortunately subject to one of my occasional bouts of idiocy, mea culpa, with the additional cost of Australian staff I can see there being extra costs involved, but I still be surprised if this was equal to twice the games cost. As I see if a game would be sold to a distributor for $x and the distributor adds his staff costs ($x+y) and his desired profit making the sale price ($x+$y+$z) which is for the US $60 approx. Assuming that the original sales price ($x), and the profit ($z) stay the same then the staff cost ($y) for Australia would, (I assume) be around 4-5 times as much. If thats right then I am definately spending my money in the wrong country.
Let me put it this way: It's messed up no matter what. But you're complaining about paying a smaller chunk of your income than we pay as if you were paying double. As for the online stuff: ever look up what Steam games cost in Russia? By both your standards and mine, they're dirt cheap, but by Russian standards they're reasonable. You price stuff for the market. I'm not saying it's not bad all over, but seriously, dude, quit acting like Australians have it so much worse than everyone else.MagunBFP said:
And it has nothing to do with the cost of importing games. It's just what the market will bear -- you guys have significantly higher wages in raw dollar amounts than we do, roughly 75-80% higher. However, the cost of living (read: how much stuff costs to buy) is roughly twice as high, meaning adjusted for cost of living, your take home pay is about 15-20% less than ours. Your videogames, however, apparently cost $40 more than ours, or roughly 66% more. Matched up to your income levels, that means you're paying a good 4-12% less for videogames than we are, and actually you're paying even less than that, because VAT is a part of the stated price for you guys, while sales tax is an added extra (about 7-10%, depending on where you live) in the US on top of the stated $60 price tag.
P.S.: In a sense, you are buying stuff from the wrong country. Assuming you can import stuff without import tax and shipping making it cost too much to be worth it, the international exchange rate(which is separate from the PPP value, which is cost of living adjusted) combined with the higher wages you guys make to cover the higher cost of living makes it so that you can buy more stuff in America for the same money. Just like Americans can buy more stuff in, say, South Korea with their money than they can in the US, even though South Korea is a well developed country with a strong middle class.
Geo-blocking and regional price discrimination in digital sales are a seperate issue.MagunBFP said:
Yeah, see, this is where geo-blocking and RPD (regional price discrimination) come into play for digital sales. There are numerous digital retail sites that ping your IP and if your IP comes back as being one of a listed group of nations you get redirected to a different sub-site that has all the prices adjusted upward to conform closer to that nation's usual pricing schemes. So the retailer ends up taking most of the advantage of the consumer's strong local currency instead of the consumer themselves.Owyn_Merrilin said:
The physical equivalent would be those Americans in South Korea suddenly finding the South Korean store owners suddenly jacking up all their prices for the Americans despite the fact that the Americans can see locals coming in and paying the regular price... and when questioned on it, being told that it's what Americans are used to paying so they shouldn't complain.
Also, it should be noted that Steam's 'Russia Experiment' is an exception to the rule, as most digital retail sites never go below their own 'local standard pricing' when selling to weaker economies.