Poll: Creativity: Talent, Inspiration, and Craft

[Eumersian]

This gets "Thread of the Year". Thanks, man.

 

[Scobie]

DELETED

 

[Dastardly]

You, sir/madam, are a god/dess. This deserves to be stickied somewhere or other. Now, the first half could be boiled down to "You need to work hard to be good, you jackass", which is something I am already abundantly aware of, although it could still be handy for those who aren't. The second half is stuff I haven't really considered before, which should come in exceptionally useful.

Of course, my problem is summoning up the energy to actually put in the hard work that is required. It's particularly difficult at the moment because I'm trying to move from pencil and paper (intuitive) to digital art (less intuitive). I think about all the awesome pictures I could produce, sit down and work enthusiastically for a while and then realise that I just don't have the technical knowledge to do what I'm aiming for. Then I get discouraged because I realise that it's going to take a lot of work, and more than just a couple of hours and a flash of inspiration, to produce anything other than crappy stuff that I didn't really care about in the first place.

Oh, and I'm so apathetic right now that I can barely motivate myself to perform the daily tasks needed to keep me alive and healthy. That is also a problem. I should probably deal with that one first.

I definitely hear you there. It's frustrating when you make a change of medium within an art like that. It's like changing from singing to playing an instrument--you know how to express yourself so well in one, and the fact that so much of it is currently lost in translation can be maddening.

Another way to think about it is learning a foreign language. You speak very well in your native tongue (pen and paper). Because you are so fluent, you don't have to focus your attention on forming correct sentences. You can instead focus on making complex arguments, using fancy turns of phrase and rhetoric, basically all the "fun" stuff that you can do once the "nuts and bolts" are in place.

Then you try to learn Swedish. And all of a sudden, you can't seem to express all those complex thoughts you have. You're back to naming vegetables and asking where the bathroom is. Counting is a chore, so math is right out. It's frustrating, usually to the point that we quit after a short while.

The best way to go about a task like this is to be honest with yourself about your expectations. Learn this the same way you learned to draw by hand. Start with simple doodles... move to some 2D stuff... work with lighting/shading effects... allow your technical IQ to catch up to your artistic IQ. Learn the language before trying to write "The Great Swedish Novel." Oh, and if you're learning Swedish, don't try to impress the Swedish with how much you know. You won't--they've done it longer, so they're gonna be better. Good news is you don't have to impress them.

The real benefit of learning to do this, though, is that it will also give you new ways to think about traditional drawing. This new process will force you to look at things differently, and you can carry those new skills into pen-and-paper art. It's really a worthwhile thing to do for any artist, and I sincerely hope you're able to keep at it!

 

[AngryLawnNinja]

Wonderful thread, sure hits a little home for me.

I'm currently 18 and live in The Netherlands.
Lately I've been looking into a 4 year bachelor's degree in 3D Visual Arts at a rather prestigious and internationally recognized school for International Game Art and Design in the city of Breda and find myself a little terrified of the goals set by this intense and demanding four year course; dealing with 2D art, 3D art, and rigging for animation. I have always wondered and thought about taking an artistic path in life, and from a pretty young (8 or so) age, I have often gotten compliments form friends, family, and teachers alike about my writing whenever I did do some short stories for assignments or otherwise picked up a pen. I enjoyed a lot of doodling in class during lessons and even wrote and drew some of my own comics and whatnot.
Unfortunately, I find my creative side waning these days, although I do often come up with little ideas or premises that I think might be cool or interesting, but I always fear that I don't have the technical knowhow to pull it off. I am a lifelong gaming enthusiast, and consider them a genuine art form capable of making people connect with the narrative and the experiences of characters like never before. Incidentally, I would often half joke to myself that I wanted to be involved with their creation; using the phrase "half joked" here because I'm still to this day not sure if I meant that seriously. Lately, I've started experimenting with Autodesk Maya (If that doesn't mean anything to you, suffice to say it's a 3D art and rendering tool), and making very slow progress figuring things out largely on my own, I must say some part of me is genuinely excited when I finally get the results I wanted. So I'm excited, but I'm also afraid. There remains since ties long flown by a nagging little doubt in the back of my head, flailing like a wind chime in the breeze; sometimes loud, sometimes barely noticeable at all, but always there. I'm afraid that maybe I'm not being truthful to myself, afraid that I'm seeing stars where there aren't any, afraid that trying to hard to be something I'm just telling myself I might be, afraid that my procrastinating ways will get the better of me, afraid that my image and definition of art is wrong, afraid to fail. What's the most stressful of all is what lies beyond, that is nothing; being anything in the way of a writer or a game designer/artist or what have you is really the only thing I've ever really thought about wanting, all the while secretly believing that I'm not capable of it. So when those ideas fall out of the picture...what remains?

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

- Snip, for brevity -

Absolutely thrilled to be of any help.

As for what you feel is your inherent "impatience," something that could help you work through that is having a partner for things like this. Team-writing, taking turns on a story, or each of you writing for one character. Just little scenes, back and forth, maybe even roleplaying-game oriented to provide a framework.

This might do one or both of the following:

1) It can provide the interaction and fun that other passive hobbies sometimes include. That might make you more willing to endure the sometimes less-fun work the hobby requires.

2) It can give you someone who's going to say, "No. You're doing this, no backing out." And sometimes we just plain need someone to kick our butts through these periods.

Everyone hits "the wall," that place where you get through the introductory "Oh How Fun!" phase, and stuff gets difficult... or at least more difficult than we originally thought. We're drawn to these arts because we've seen the inspiring work of some master, and thought, "I want to do that!" And, no matter how realistic or mature we are, there's always a bit of disillusionment when we can't sit down and, within minutes, recreate that master's work.

Where the wall divides the "okay" from the "great" is whether we decide to stop and turn around... or to climb, tunnel, blast, or otherwise go right past that wall. And sometimes we must be shoved the first time. There's nothing wrong with that, but it just means we sometimes need to find a person who's willing to do the shoving.

Glad you replied, that would have been the second thread in one day that I would have sunk with a long post

It has actually been getting involved in a forum RP that has forced me to writing more regularly recently. The pressure of having to produce something to avoid letting people down certainly works as motivation. I haven't actually considered the role of interaction with these hobbies actually, I don't have any friends irl interested in these kind of things, although I occasionally discuss it online, I didn't actually realise that I don't have any kind of outlet to express how frustrating it often is.

I really get what you mean by that wall, especially with my small forays into drawing (although I really can't decide whether it's surmountable or not). I...hope it's an initial barrier I'll get over after being forced to think about things in new ways. So far it's been a valuable but far from rewarding experience. I know I was trying to go too fast too soon now, and I'm sticking with basic practise activities now and I'm getting much less frustrated with it though. I may just be unused to enduring such slow progress.

I'll definitely have to try that interaction thingy sometime. I never thought about its place in what seem to be fundamentally solitary creative activities.

I'm afraid that maybe I'm not being truthful to myself, afraid that I'm seeing stars where there aren't any, afraid that trying to hard to be something I'm just telling myself I might be, afraid that my procrastinating ways will get the better of me, afraid that my image and definition of art is wrong, afraid to fail.

I had a similar experience with less of a focus on art when I started doing an degree in computer science. Eventually, I realised, despite pushing myself with the subject, my interest in computers was only really in what they could do for me as an end user, and whatever competence I had with them was as a result of facilitating that. So, I dropped out and am now doing a degree in English Literature, one of the typical undecided student subjects (coincidentally, I had a half-joke about my university plans "So, what are you planning to do with your degree?" "Avoid going into the real world for another three years". It took me a while to realise that that was far more revealing than I meant it to be, and I was just using humour to disguise my lazy attitude. Half jokes are a pain in the ass!).

That isn't the most reassuring anecdote I could have come up with. I wanted to address how revealing half-jokes can be mostly. I'm not advocating you dropping your subject or aspirations: my actual advice would be try and channel your insecurities into motivation to improve if you or others familiar with your work (tutors etc) think you're capable of grasping it. Just, if you get completely thrown off your vague expected career trajectory like I did, it's painful, completely disorientating, and certainly can be slow (I'm still working it out for myself) but you can find another career path if it unfortunately doesn't go the way you want it to.

Hopefully dastardly can give you a more hopeful response if he comes back to this thread

 

[Dastardly]

Wonderful thread, sure hits a little home for me.

I'm currently 18 and live in The Netherlands.
Lately I've been looking into a 4 year bachelor's degree in 3D Visual Arts at a rather prestigious and internationally recognized school for International Game Art and Design in the city of Breda and find myself a little terrified of the goals set by this intense and demanding four year course; dealing with 2D art, 3D art, and rigging for animation. I have always wondered and thought about taking an artistic path in life, and from a pretty young (8 or so) age, I have often gotten compliments form friends, family, and teachers alike about my writing whenever I did do some short stories for assignments or otherwise picked up a pen. I enjoyed a lot of doodling in class during lessons and even wrote and drew some of my own comics and whatnot.
Unfortunately, I find my creative side waning these days, although I do often come up with little ideas or premises that I think might be cool or interesting, but I always fear that I don't have the technical knowhow to pull it off. I am a lifelong gaming enthusiast, and consider them a genuine art form capable of making people connect with the narrative and the experiences of characters like never before. Incidentally, I would often half joke to myself that I wanted to be involved with their creation; using the phrase "half joked" here because I'm still to this day not sure if I meant that seriously. Lately, I've started experimenting with Autodesk Maya (If that doesn't mean anything to you, suffice to say it's a 3D art and rendering tool), and making very slow progress figuring things out largely on my own, I must say some part of me is genuinely excited when I finally get the results I wanted. So I'm excited, but I'm also afraid. There remains since ties long flown by a nagging little doubt in the back of my head, flailing like a wind chime in the breeze; sometimes loud, sometimes barely noticeable at all, but always there. I'm afraid that maybe I'm not being truthful to myself, afraid that I'm seeing stars where there aren't any, afraid that trying to hard to be something I'm just telling myself I might be, afraid that my procrastinating ways will get the better of me, afraid that my image and definition of art is wrong, afraid to fail. What's the most stressful of all is what lies beyond, that is nothing; being anything in the way of a writer or a game designer/artist or what have you is really the only thing I've ever really thought about wanting, all the while secretly believing that I'm not capable of it. So when those ideas fall out of the picture...what remains?

Sounds to me like you're doing exactly what you ought to--you're fiddling with it, trying it out, and teaching yourself a few things. Many of the folks in that degree program you're considering? Just sitting and waiting to be spoon-fed, unfortunately. Initiative, taking ownership for your learning, these are the heart and soul of any degree program--or any learning endeavor, really.

As for those doubts, don't let them get to you. They're normal, they're natural, but they're not helpful. They're also not correct. A book I highly suggest is called "The Inner Game of Tennis." Yep, it's about tennis. But it hits on some things that apply to any endeavor. The first of which is quieting that internal self-critical voice, and forcing it to fill its appropriate role in your life.

It's okay to compare your art to that of professionals. We get better by surrounding ourselves with our betters, not our peers. But that's just comparing to see what you want to work on next. Don't base the value of your work on what you see professionals doing. It's too easy to miss a leap forward in your own technique if you're still disillusioned by how far you still have to go.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

It's a tricky balance, aspiring to be like the pros, emulating the pros, but not holding ourselves to the same standards as the pros (yet). The difference comes in how you compare yourself, and what you're saying to yourself when you do. You want your focus to be on what you're doing right, and on what you want to accomplish/improve next--not on what mistakes you want to avoid. There's a difference between saying, "I want to be sure I get the lighting right" and saying "I don't want to screw up this lighting." It seems small, but that little difference colors how you're going to look at (and feel about) your work and your accomplishments.

Basically, think about what you want to do right, not about what you don't want to do wrong. Your internal "no" voice is the harshest critic you can ever have, because he's like a super-critical jerk that also knows exactly where all your fears and doubts lie, and which buttons to press to set them off. For now, shut him up. There'll come a time to be critical, but it's not yet. When that time comes, you'll be better prepared to self-criticize in a healthy and constructive way.

 

[Dastardly]

I'll definitely have to try that interaction thingy sometime. I never thought about its place in what seem to be fundamentally solitary creative activities.

While there's a mountain of argument (and at least a handful of doctoral theses) about this statement, I'll say it anyway because I believe it to be true for most practical purposes:

What is the artistic without an audience?

Art is communicative. Even when there's just the artist and the viewer, the process is still cooperative--the artist sends the message, the viewer responds to it. The artist then adapts his art based on how the viewer responds, or how the artist wants the viewer to respond in the future.

Most of the solitude in art comes as a result of the artist not wanting people to see the toil (and the mistakes) that go into creating the work. "No one wants to see the sausage factory," they say--and in the art world, the guy running the factory doesn't want you there to see it, either! Put all that aside and make some folks part of the process, not just the product.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

Art is communicative. Even when there's just the artist and the viewer, the process is still cooperative--the artist sends the message, the viewer responds to it. The artist then adapts his art based on how the viewer responds, or how the artist wants the viewer to respond in the future.

Most of the solitude in art comes as a result of the artist not wanting people to see the toil (and the mistakes) that go into creating the work. "No one wants to see the sausage factory," they say--and in the art world, the guy running the factory doesn't want you there to see it, either! Put all that aside and make some folks part of the process, not just the product.

That rationale behind the solitude does seem in line with my own experiences (although I know it isn't the only way to go about it). I'm quite secretive at the moment, I don't want to "come out" until I have something worth showing. I guess showing some people unfinished stuff, or things I'm having difficulty with more often (something I'm shy about) could be very useful. At the moment it's purely an issue of non-application though.

Don't feel obliged to reply to this btw, I mainly just wanted to give this thread what I feel is a deserved bump (it should at least reach a second page!).

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I'm bookmarking this now. I don't have time to read it all nor am I in the right frame of mind (stupid meds) but as an aspiring novelist and general eccentric I find what I did read intriguing.

I'll be sure to return.

 

[BenzSmoke]

That was really good man, thanks.
I was looking for ways to expand my art and the suggestion of putting limits on things sounds like a good idea.
I'm bookmarking this.

 

[AngryLawnNinja]

Hey guys,

Let me start off by saying thanks for your time in writing a reply to my soul overflow, and in doing so helping me skim off some of that thick upper foam. It's comforting to know that there are others backing the idea recently forming in the back of my head about where I'm headed with this. I too had considered that this is just a result of me getting in the way of me, and that if I can rattle on about all this it might be worth diving further into. More than ever I'm beginning to see that maybe the answer was staring me in the face all along. The fact that I can think of nothing else to do with myself, coupled with how strongly this all boils deep down inside me might have been the sign I'm looking for. I was afraid of taking the "movie-esque" approach of "Yay I'm living my dream!" As far as I know I only have one life, and damn it, I'm gonna try! So what if I fail? It's better than regretting not taking the risk, regretting not taking the leap of faith I feel attracted too, and along the way forgetting that I have alot to learn. I have until September next year to get myself started, and I think it's time I got busy.

Thanks forum.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

Snip

Glad you came to that conclusion. If you're passionate about it, and have the intellectual capability to get on the course in the first place, then you ought to have a great shot in my blindly enthusiastic opinion . "You won't know if you'd have failed if you never try" etc. Of course it's a very competitive field from what I've heard, but you'd still have developed an employable skill. Hope it goes well for you. Good luck with the hard part of gaining expertise and and developing those skills.

Also, never be afraid of movie-eque decisions! Now go 3D modelmaking montage! And...outrun an explosion and make out with a gorgeous woman if you have energy afterwards.

Edit: Because I can't miss an opportunity to link to a DAR comic, especially when this seems to realistically sum up the effort involved in working in art. http://www.darcomic.org/2009/10/06/beanartist/

 

[BrassButtons]

This is a very well-written piece. I especially agree with the bit about limitations. I had a script writing class where the entire semester was working towards writing a five-minute, two-character, one-setting play. People were forced to become very creative with that, and we all benefited from it.

 

[Dastardly]

This is a very well-written piece. I especially agree with the bit about limitations. I had a script writing class where the entire semester was working towards writing a five-minute, two-character, one-setting play. People were forced to become very creative with that, and we all benefited from it.

I absolutely love stuff like that. I remember back in high school, my English teacher wanted to make sure that we were all friggin' experts at writing essays. So she told us all of our essays would be pass/fail (but that we'd get to rewrite it until we passed), and she gave us the hardest writing prompt we'd ever had:

"Describe the steps for making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich." We were the top of our class, and we all failed it at least three times. Obviously, it wasn't because we didn't know how to make a sandwich, but the teacher was being extremely picky on style and structure. This made it abundantly clear to us that we did not know how to tell others how to make the sandwich.

We learned about not assuming what the reader knows. We learned about pre-writing the ever-loving crap out of everything to ensure your structure leads the reader down the right path. We learned to stop focusing on the content and start thinking about style. And it worked like a charm.

Exercises like that, with strict limits, are the greatest "necessary evil" an artist must undergo. You're forced to use new solutions to old problems, old solutions to new problems, or just forced to think of a problem differently to answer questions you hadn't thought to ask yet.

In learning jazz improvisation (on any instrument), it helps to do things like this, too. A lot of beginning players will focus so much attention on "getting the right notes" that they use boring, simple rhythms--they leave out an entire dimension of their own creativity. Later on, they develop into the sort of jazzers that think playing super-fast scales and super-high notes makes a solo "interesting." (It can be, but not if it's the only trick you know.)

So, you give them THREE notes. "You may use these three notes, and nothing else. NOW make something interesting with it." Now rhythm, dynamics, articulation, all of these elements become so much more important, and the player becomes more aware of them. Then when you give them the rest of their notes back, they still retain that awareness, and it informs their playing.