Poll: D&D or Pathfinder?

[Windcaler]

I started D&D back during 2nd edition then around 2004 or so one of my players convinced me to try 3.0. I wish I had held out for a year because the next year 3.5 was released. I played that for till cancelation of Dungeon and Dragon magazine of which I had been an avid reader for years. Then with the annoucnment of 4.0 I was kind of annoyed, I had gone through the change with 2nd edition I didnt want a brand new system. I wanted an evolution of 3.5. A few months later the alpha to pathfinder was released and I found the Paizo publishing was doing exactly what I wanted.

The killer to D&D for me was when I played it. I wanted to give it a fair shot like I do all RPGs but I hated it. It just wasnt fantasy roleplaying to me so I turned my back from it and started playing pathfinder full time. Pathfinder only got better as Golarian (the setting they use) got more detailed and the new classes and character options came out

Today Im an avid Pathfinder supporter, GM, and when I can find a game player. I wont say its the better/best system because thats a subjective determination but I will say that I think its the best fantasy pen and paper RPG game system I have played to date.

 

[crazyfoxdemon]

As long as its not DnD 4E.. I don't really care..

 

[Aethren]

No idea. They're both expensive as all hell to get into, and I don't know of anyone around here that plays them.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Exactly. I do like the 2E though. And nothing beats the old school AD&D art style. btw.

Tony diTerlizzi is the man.

 

[Mr.Gompers]

I actually like D&D 4th, but then again, I'm extremely new to Tabletop RPGs, just got into it last year when I started reading OOTS, so the streamlining is very nice.

 

[JMeganSnow]

I'm not that wedded to system, particularly. I liked 3.0/3.5 and Pathfinder.

I don't like 4e at all, though, it feels like Dungeons and Dragons: The Gathering to me. Every character I built wound up being basically identical except for, say, damage-type descriptors because there is absolutely no reason to build outside the model of: pick a class. Pick two stats that are good for that class. Those are your main stats. Pick a race that gets bonuses to those two stats. Pick abilities that use those two stats. Pick feats that make those abilities better. Pick gear that makes those abilities better. The end. 4e is geared toward absolutely everything falling within a VERY narrow range of possible outcomes, so if you are as much as -2 off of what the game expects your numbers to be for your level, you are screwed. (Granted, if you can get as much as +2 ABOVE the expected numbers, you're pretty well-off.)

That, and the modules released for 4e are godawful. Bad writing. Bad editing. Every single one we played had MAJOR errors in it that any half-competent editor would fix, from two maps of the same area not matching (which left us all scratching our heads, let me tell you) to several mobs appearing in a fight but not being named or described anywhere so who knows what they were supposed to be. That and no individual attack does much damage, so fights are a *grind*. I hit. I do 40. I hit. I do 40. Oh, it has 800 hit points. Yay. Even our GM nearly fell asleep from boredom during the sessions.

Of course, now we're playing Scion (Storyteller system) which I like EVEN LESS. I detest Storyteller. Half the rulebook goes all out telling you how epic and tortured and awesome and weird and angsty and cool your child-of-a-god character is going to be, and then when it comes time to do something epic . . . you really can't. Part of this comes down to plain dice rolls--I mean, how much sense does it make when you have about a 33% chance per die to get one success to have it average out so that in order to HIT IN COMBAT, you, on average again, will need ONE SUCCESS PER DIE. You'll need a stack of over-successes to have a chance to do damage, too. Ugh.

I actually prefer games where there's lots of interesting character and world interaction, but I'll take this dry mechanical crap too as long as it's interesting. Often times, however, it ain't.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

No idea. They're both expensive as all hell to get into, and I don't know of anyone around here that plays them.

Actually, Pathfinder is free (as long as you don't mind using the internet).

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

That's official and legally free.

 

[Scars Unseen]

I haven't been able to get a gaming group together since before 4E came out. I have the books(well the original 3, so I'm way behind) but I have no way to get a feel for the new edition. I like the way some of it reads, and not so much other parts, but I imagine it's all outdated anyway, so whatever.

I was actually starting to get interested in the Fate system. It has a lot of interesting concepts that I would love to use in a game.

http://www.faterpg.com/
http://zork.net/~nick/loyhargil/fate-srd-rest/Fate-SRD-2005-03-31.html

 

[JMeganSnow]

Rule 0 is the rule that states that the DM is always right, and in any conflict between rule 0 and another printed rule, rule 0 wins. I'm not sure if it's actually called rule 0 in the books, but it IS in the dungeon master's guide, and an unwritten rule in most systems. It basically comes from the fact that it's the DM's job to make sure everyone is having fun, and that fun is more important than rules, so rule 0 is there to make sure he can.

So yeah, rule 0 basically takes care of most blatant unevenness of D&D 3.5 when used correctly.

This is NOT Rule 0. Rule 0 is that any rule that gets in the way of the fun gets scrapped. Including an overbearing asshole GM who insists he's "always right". The GM is not the ruler of the game, he is the setter of the scene and the arbitrator of difficulties.

In a tactical, high-threat game, in fact, the players NEED to be able to argue rules with the GM and not just have the GM say "whatever I say, goes", because being able to point to a rule in the book that says your character didn't just die is about the only grounds for arguing that the players HAVE. I mean, seriously, if the GM really wanted to, why not just dump an ancient red dragon on you and call it a day. (My group refers to this kind of behavior as "cow from orbit"--you are suddenly and inexplicably struck by a cow. From orbit. Moo.)

The people in my group have between 12-20 years of PnP experience each and have seen just about everything. It makes them hard to impress, but they have decent conflict resolution skills.

 

[Aethren]

No idea. They're both expensive as all hell to get into, and I don't know of anyone around here that plays them.

Actually, Pathfinder is free (as long as you don't mind using the internet).

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

That's official and legally free.

But what about miniatures, dice, artbooks, maps, nipple tassels, and soda? I doubt that's free.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

But what about miniatures, dice, artbooks, maps, nipple tassels, and soda? I doubt that's free.

Miniatures) You can print out free paper ones from the internet. You can also buy paper ones, but I have no idea why any sane person would do so when they're free (and easy to make in Paint).

Dice) Actually, there are a number of random-number generators online. So if you really don't want to use dice, you can keep your web browser open to that page and roll digitally. Free.

Artbooks) Why would you need one of those when Google Images exists?

Maps) See Artbooks above. Also, a sheet of graph paper will do you if you like to make your own.

Nipple Tassels) Optional unless you're in one of my games, and in that case they're provided by the DM along with hand-cuffs, whips, and riding crops.

Soda) ... drink tap water? Or make your players bring it.

 

[Aethren]

But what about miniatures, dice, artbooks, maps, nipple tassels, and soda? I doubt that's free.

Miniatures) You can print out free paper ones from the internet. You can also buy paper ones, but I have no idea why any sane person would do so when they're free (and easy to make in Paint).

Dice) Actually, there are a number of random-number generators online. So if you really don't want to use dice, you can keep your web browser open to that page and roll digitally. Free.

Artbooks) Why would you need one of those when Google Images exists?

Maps) See Artbooks above. Also, a sheet of graph paper will do you if you like to make your own.

Nipple Tassels) Optional unless you're in one of my games, and in that case they're provided by the DM along with hand-cuffs, whips, and riding crops.

Soda) ... drink tap water? Or make your players bring it.

I wish I could join your games, I've thought out my perfect character: A shirt-less dwarven berserker with a heavy beard dyed a vibrant pink, silver nipple tassels, and an extremely hairy chest. He likes hammers and elven wine, and is quite good at bellydancing.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I wish I could join your games, I've thought out my perfect character: A shirt-less dwarven berserker with a heavy beard dyed a vibrant pink, silver nipple tassels, and an extremely hairy chest. He likes hammers and elven wine, and is quite good at bellydancing.

**blinks**

Oh gods, my eyes! Oh gods, my BRAIN!

Anyway, I should probably mention that my spouse and I run lots of Pathfinder games for one another.

Currently, my spouse is playing my Mass Effect Pathfinder conversion. ^^ My spouse's Shepard decided to romance Tali. So I practiced the accent, learned her romance dialog options, and one thing led to another.

No whips or handcuffs in that one (although I won't rule out the rest). Last time we used the whips was that Drow game....

 

[Smiles]

I started with fourth as my only DnD experience, and I had no idea it was not the DnD my father grew up with. I loved it at first, but couldn't quite place what it was missing. then one of my friends invited me into their 3.5 game, and I have to say at first I was extremely confused, what with the enormous ammount of official books out there and 3rd party suppliments. I never had a clue where to start when making a character, but the roleplaying was so fun that it didn't seem to matter that my character could do crap all. then a friend of mine comes along, saying he wants to run a Pathfinder game, specifically Kingmaker. I look over the pathfinder stuff, and have an epiphany.

its like after a rainstorm, the clouds parted and I saw light.

Pathfinder was a 100 times easier to get into than 3.5 for me, there was when I started playing simply the players handbook and thats all I needed. I didn't even have to buy it, its all online!

sure my character may not be super awesome powerful sorceress still, but at least I haven't gimped myself in any fashion and I love the world and its history.

anyone in the vancouver area looking to buy some fourth ed books? I am selling my collection, which is in perfect condition for only half price!(or tradsis!)

 

[Indecipherable]

Rule 0 is the rule that states that the DM is always right, and in any conflict between rule 0 and another printed rule, rule 0 wins. I'm not sure if it's actually called rule 0 in the books, but it IS in the dungeon master's guide, and an unwritten rule in most systems. It basically comes from the fact that it's the DM's job to make sure everyone is having fun, and that fun is more important than rules, so rule 0 is there to make sure he can.

So yeah, rule 0 basically takes care of most blatant unevenness of D&D 3.5 when used correctly.

This is NOT Rule 0. Rule 0 is that any rule that gets in the way of the fun gets scrapped. Including an overbearing asshole GM who insists he's "always right". The GM is not the ruler of the game, he is the setter of the scene and the arbitrator of difficulties.

In a tactical, high-threat game, in fact, the players NEED to be able to argue rules with the GM and not just have the GM say "whatever I say, goes", because being able to point to a rule in the book that says your character didn't just die is about the only grounds for arguing that the players HAVE. I mean, seriously, if the GM really wanted to, why not just dump an ancient red dragon on you and call it a day. (My group refers to this kind of behavior as "cow from orbit"--you are suddenly and inexplicably struck by a cow. From orbit. Moo.)

The people in my group have between 12-20 years of PnP experience each and have seen just about everything. It makes them hard to impress, but they have decent conflict resolution skills.

If someone's justification for a ridiculous rule was 'because I'm the DM' was used in our group then they would be the DM for the next 5 seconds while everyone decided who would run the next group instead of them.

 

[Aethren]

I wish I could join your games, I've thought out my perfect character: A shirt-less dwarven berserker with a heavy beard dyed a vibrant pink, silver nipple tassels, and an extremely hairy chest. He likes hammers and elven wine, and is quite good at bellydancing.

**blinks**

Oh gods, my eyes! Oh gods, my BRAIN!

Anyway, I should probably mention that my spouse and I run lots of Pathfinder games for one another.

Currently, my spouse is playing my Mass Effect Pathfinder conversion. ^^ My spouse's Shepard decided to romance Tali. So I practiced the accent, learned her romance dialog options, and one thing led to another.

No whips or handcuffs in that one (although I won't rule out the rest). Last time we used the whips was that Drow game....

That's ironic, I gave my Dwarf the same accent as Tali. He's like a Scottish Russian. Or Russian Scot. No mask or bodysuit though, just 300 lbs of Dwarven bellydancing glamour. With tassels. And he sometimes rides his warhammer like a witch rides a broom, and makes "Swoosh" noises as he prances over the corpses of recently-slain enemies.

Tali's pretty much every geek's dream-girl it seems, she's like the ideal woman. Soft-spoken with an amazing accent and small curves on a slender frame.

 

[Thaa'ir]

I started on 3.5 DnD but sometimes we had to use 3.0 books...it ended up getting weird. My friends are hostile towards 4.0, but I've never played it.

 

[SSX-BlueFlames]

I've so extensively house-ruled D&D that I effectively use a custom edition now. Edition 3.5 was the basis, but a Second Edition player would feel right at home with my character creation and leveling rules. Then there's the completely original stuff I've sprinkled on top, like the nautical combat rules. The amount of effort invested in this was absolutely ridiculous, but I'm pretty proud of the end result.

Also, not really sure what poll option that represents.