Poll: Dark Souls isn't hard, its just douchey with its checkpoints

[AlternatePFG]

I have played it, and difficulty is subjective and all that. The only difficulty I think is actually fake is when it's not the player's fault, and I'm assuming getting killed in Dark Souls is always because of the player's mistakes/inexperience. If that's not true, then sure.

The really only time where I think death isn't the player's fault, is the first few times fighting a boss. You really don't have a feel for the fight, and the bosses tend to pull tricks out of their asses. However, most of time, if you've gotten to a boss, there will either be a shortcut or bonfire (Heals you up, etc.) nearby, so you don't have to go through the whole level of enemies.

Demon's Souls on the other hand, dying in the middle of level was a pain. There usually was a shortcut, but the levels were usually bigger and the elite enemies respawn (They don't in Dark Souls).

 

[Daystar Clarion]

OP you are wasting your time with these ones. This game makes them feel hardcore for playing it so they will defend it to the death.

Was that really necessary? Because a lot of us like the game, it's because we think we're hardcore for playing it?

Heaven forbid it's because we think it's a great game that's difficult, but never feels unfair. It never holds our hand and it never panders to us.

It's completely honest in what it is and isn't trying to be anything else.

I found DS completely boring, lord knows I gave it a chance (and then some) and when people talk about either the "souls" games or the "king's field" games 9/10 posts are about the difficulty.

So because you didn't particularly like the game, others do because they like feeling 'better' than other gamers?

Don't begin to pressume why I love the game. It certainly isn't because I think I'm better than others for playing it.

 

[Wyvulent]

2-2 in Demon's Souls > all of dark souls, checkpoints are never an issue, not when the bosses suck that much Besides except the Anor Londo archers you can run past most things anyway.
However the travel between bonfires idea? I'd welcome that, climbing blighttown gets boring after awhile.

 

[Fishyash]

I haven't played dark souls, but I would have thought that bosses mark the final step in a journey, and going through the level is preparing you for it (in some weird way) and the better you do on the level, the easier the boss will be (the less weakened you are). I would have thought respawning at the boss with full health would dimish that. I don't really like that in most checkpoint heavy games when you're at a boss and you die you respawn right before the boss at full health. I don't know what the death penalty in the souls games are though.

It can seem tedious for some people going through the same 10-15 minutes over and over again, but I don't see it as a bad thing personally... I guess I just enjoy repeating and perfecting segments of a game.

If there was a checkpoint before the boss, I think it would be fair to be in the state you were before you started fighting the boss + the death penalty (haven't really paid much attention to the thread so if it's been explained already i'll look again).

But I think this is just a preference. Dying seems like an opportunity to perfect the segment you were doing before the boss and optimizing your play so you can do as well as possible before the boss.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

OP you are wasting your time with these ones. This game makes them feel hardcore for playing it so they will defend it to the death.

Was that really necessary? Because a lot of us like the game, it's because we think we're hardcore for playing it?

Heaven forbid it's because we think it's a great game that's difficult, but never feels unfair. It never holds our hand and it never panders to us.

It's completely honest in what it is and isn't trying to be anything else.

I found DS completely boring, lord knows I gave it a chance (and then some) and when people talk about either the "souls" games or the "king's field" games 9/10 posts are about the difficulty.

So because you didn't particularly like the game, others do because they like feeling 'better' than other gamers?

Don't begin to pressume why I love the game. It certainly isn't because I think I'm better than others for playing it.

I never said it was the feeling of being better than someone else, I said it was because I presumed it made them feel like they were hardcore. There is a difference.

The game requires skill and patience. If a player is getting killed continously then they are either underequipped/leveled to deal with the task, or they lack the necessary skill to beat it.

It's not about being hardcore, it's about being careful, weighing risks.

You let you're guard down for a second, think that you've got the upper hand, and the game will put you down. It's a lesson in humility, it's never about being the best, it's about being able to simply survive.

 

[krazykidd]

Think of it this way , you only lose your souls if you die twice without picking it up , so if you got the a certain place once , the you shouls technically be able to get there a second time . Also , dying is also grinding for exp , allow me to explain , you got from point A to point B ( not boss ) , picked up 5000 souls , then die . When you get to point B a second time , well you get back the 5000 souls from before + the 5000 souls from currently runing through point A and B again . Here you have to decide if you prefer to continue or turn back to save your souls.

Also a bonfire behind every white door would mean unlimited boss retries with no consequence , the game is all about consequence , but despite this there are shortcuts to bonfires close to bosses most of the time , if you are patient ( or lucky)enough to find them . Rewarding a player for patience and perception.

Also there is a new game+ which makes the game even harder for more hardcore players . The game was made like this , to make players feel rewarded for their perserverance , ever time i beat a boss i highfive my gf because i feel so awsome . There is nothing wrong with the game , just the players. Being cocky or overconfident will get you killed . Being patient and cautious is often the difference between life or death. Best advice i can give is be observant , watch your surrounding , watch your enemies , watch you health bar , watch your stamina . Doing this will minimize your deaths in the world ( not boss fights). For boss fights , expect to die , the first time you fight any boss observe his movements, his attacks , his tells, try to predict his moves . How does he attack when you are close , when you are far , what can you block , what can you dodge.

Appart from that spend you souls ever chance you get unless you intend to buy a specific item soon. Souls are never ending , no need to save them up unless you planing to buy an item or peice if equipment right away . There is no shame in runing back to a bondfire because you have a lot of souls .

And lastly upgrand your equipment , try new weapons , new fighting styles , find a weapon your comfortable with and upgrade it .

Hope this helps .

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

OP you are wasting your time with these ones. This game makes them feel hardcore for playing it so they will defend it to the death.

Was that really necessary? Because a lot of us like the game, it's because we think we're hardcore for playing it?

Heaven forbid it's because we think it's a great game that's difficult, but never feels unfair. It never holds our hand and it never panders to us.

It's completely honest in what it is and isn't trying to be anything else.

I found DS completely boring, lord knows I gave it a chance (and then some) and when people talk about either the "souls" games or the "king's field" games 9/10 posts are about the difficulty.

So because you didn't particularly like the game, others do because they like feeling 'better' than other gamers?

Don't begin to pressume why I love the game. It certainly isn't because I think I'm better than others for playing it.

I never said it was the feeling of being better than someone else, I said it was because I presumed it made them feel like they were hardcore. There is a difference.

The game requires skill and patience. If a player is getting killed continously then they are either underequipped/leveled to deal with the task, or they lack the necessary skill to beat it.

It's not about being hardcore, it's about being careful, weighing risks.

You let you're guard down for a second, think that you've got the upper hand, and the game will put you down. It's a lesson in humility, it's never about being the best, it's about being able to simply survive.

I get that, i do.. you might think that my complaining simply means i dont like the game, or dont "get it" but i do, i wanted a game that challanges me, not one that holds my hand, or i can complete without ever dying (like for example fable 2+3).

I dont mind when i get my ass kicked by every new set of enemies i come across, because at least i learn something from it. However i stop finding it fun when i do manage to clear an area all the way to a boss, and then when i go to kill the boss, i get 1 hit ko'd and i have to Re-do everything again. Once ive cleared that area, it stops being a challange, where im learning, it just becomes a massive grind.

 

[krazykidd]

2-2 in Demon's Souls > all of dark souls, checkpoints are never an issue, not when the bosses suck that much Besides except the Anor Londo archers you can run past most things anyway.
However the travel between bonfires idea? I'd welcome that, climbing blighttown gets boring after awhile.

Theres a shortcut out of blightown swamp area inti new londo , also , i only climbed down and up before

Spoiler

you get an item that allows you instantly warp there and several key places.

although , climing out was more stressful than climing in since i knew what to expect and i was terrified . Also while climing down , i completly missed a bonfire that was halfway through , i saw it while climing back up , if i was a little more observant , it would have saved me a bit a trouble , but that was my fault not the game and i assume complete responsibility over that.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

OP you are wasting your time with these ones. This game makes them feel hardcore for playing it so they will defend it to the death.

Was that really necessary? Because a lot of us like the game, it's because we think we're hardcore for playing it?

Heaven forbid it's because we think it's a great game that's difficult, but never feels unfair. It never holds our hand and it never panders to us.

It's completely honest in what it is and isn't trying to be anything else.

I found DS completely boring, lord knows I gave it a chance (and then some) and when people talk about either the "souls" games or the "king's field" games 9/10 posts are about the difficulty.

So because you didn't particularly like the game, others do because they like feeling 'better' than other gamers?

Don't begin to pressume why I love the game. It certainly isn't because I think I'm better than others for playing it.

I never said it was the feeling of being better than someone else, I said it was because I presumed it made them feel like they were hardcore. There is a difference.

The game requires skill and patience. If a player is getting killed continously then they are either underequipped/leveled to deal with the task, or they lack the necessary skill to beat it.

It's not about being hardcore, it's about being careful, weighing risks.

You let you're guard down for a second, think that you've got the upper hand, and the game will put you down. It's a lesson in humility, it's never about being the best, it's about being able to simply survive.

I get that, i do.. you might think that my complaining simply means i dont like the game, or dont "get it" but i do, i wanted a game that challanges me, not one that holds my hand, or i can complete without ever dying (like for example fable 2+3).

I dont mind when i get my ass kicked by every new set of enemies i come across, because at least i learn something from it. However i stop finding it fun when i do manage to clear an area all the way to a boss, and then when i go to kill the boss, i get 1 hit ko'd and i have to Re-do everything again. Once ive cleared that area, it stops being a challange, where im learning, it just becomes a massive grind.

If you're getting one hit killed, they you're either trying to take on something before you're ready for it, or you're equipment is lacking.

Read this wiki

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/

Look at equipment, see what you currently have access to, and how you can make it better. The game kills the unprepared, so be ready for everything.

The main thing is, don't get frustrated, because the game loves to kill frustrated players, frustration causes mistakes. If it feels like too much, then try exploring somewhere else.

 

[RagTagBand]

It is not the games fault you suck, and you do suck.

In Demons souls the checkpoint system was infinitely less forgiving than the current Dark Souls system getting to have a checkpoint only AFTER you've beaten a boss.

As for your troubles, you're simply not exploring enough or are simply not good enough. I am not a particularly great Dark Souls player, But I've played only 10 hours and i've unlocked enough short cuts that allow me to go from firelink shrine to the middle of the undead burg in about 5 minutes (Encountering only 7-8 enemies on the way) OR from the firelink shrine to the undead church in the same amount of time, encountering the same amount of enemies. That's THREE checkpoints within 5 minutes of one another, with minimal resistance. The only thing I needed to do was explore.

Thinking of it now, you can get to a point where those three checkpoints are easily attainable by beating only one boss - The Taurus demon.

Dark souls is not cheap, it's slightly cheaper than Demons's Souls sure, but its still nowhere near being artificially difficult. If you are dying 10 times in the same place to the same guy perhaps you should consider going a different route (it is an open world game remember) maybe trying a different tactic, or leveling up a bit before tackling it. Dark souls doesn't ask that you think, it demands it; You either do it or you fail. Currently you're failing, so try thinking.

 

[Chased]

I haven't played Dark Souls but I get your gist and agree in the same regard to Demon's Souls (which I did play).

When playing Demon's Souls I never encountered anything that was particularly puzzling, just enemies that could hit harder than I could. This in my humble opinion is not the high point of video game difficulty. Digging out a swimming pool in my backward with a spoon would also be difficult but not very cognitively challenging.

A difficult game is not necessarily a good game.

 

[Judgement101]

How is it douchey? It just expects you not to die.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Oh the capra demon. That was annoying. You want hard, wait until you get to ornstein/smough.

Checkpoint isn an issue, boss battle is.

I beat those guys on my second attempt.

Like I've already said. It's about learning patterns, when you know what an enemy is going to do, they're much less of a threat.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

Oh the capra demon. That was annoying. You want hard, wait until you get to ornstein/smough.

Checkpoint isn an issue, boss battle is.

I beat those guys on my second attempt.

Like I've already said. It's about learning patterns, when you know what an enemy is going to do, they're much less of a threat.

That is what I find interesting about people playing Dark Souls.
I used 15tries on that goddamn capra demon, my friend used 2.
But I killed Ornstein/Smough on my second try alone and he used 20tries alone.

It really comes back to how you play.

 

[Jadak]

I don't think they did that to be "cheap" or tot pad the game, but to increase the tension and keep you on your toes. They don't want to trivialize death by putting checkmarks outside the door.

No, they definitely did it to waste your time. Most of the enemies can simply be ignored. More often than not when I die at a boss, it's just a matter of running back through the map, bypassing everything on the way.

What does forcing me to spend 5 minutes running to where I just was accomplish? That's the punishment for death? To avoid trivializing it I have to spend more time walking/running?

 

[Pearwood]

Dark Souls is an open world hub system, use it as one. There are plenty of shortcuts that mean you only have to fight a few enemies to get back to the boss. The only exception for me so far is the Depths where there was a few enemies with the ungodly annoying curse ability between you and the boss.

A difficult game is not necessarily a good game.

That's true but I think people, myself included, like Dark/Demon's Souls because of the game itself rather than just because it's hard.