Poll: Darkness Induced Apathy and The Walking Dead (Spoilers through Last Episode)

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BloatedGuppy

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Feb 3, 2010
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So, watched Walking Dead last night. I thought it was a reasonably strong episode as The Walking Dead goes, less so because lots of exciting things happened and moreso because the director was flexing their chops and working in a lot of artistic flourish, which helped establish a deeply melancholy atmosphere.

It is that latter point that set me to wondering. I remember after "The Rains of Castamere" aired for Game of Thrones, there was a flurry of angry viewers announcing they were done with the program, that it had become too dour and hopeless for them to endure. When "Ozymandias" aired for Breaking Bad I was momentarily tempted to stop watching the show TWO EPISODES FROM COMPLETION because I just couldn't take it any more. We are most of us familiar with Darkness Induced Audience Apathy as a concept, being the TV Tropes fiends that we are.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarknessInducedAudienceApathy

This half season of Walking Dead is shaping up to be...well...extremely bleak, even for a setting renowned for its bleakness. Sasha ends the episode looking emotionally destroyed, and she was already on a freight train to nihilism after Bob's unfortunate death. Maggie has recently lost the last living member of her family and looked past her breaking point. Something seems to have broken deep inside Glenn, and he's on the same path to moral ambiguity that claimed Rick and Shane. Michonne looks fucking done with everything. Noah has a platter full of fresh tragedies to cope with. It goes on and on.

Artistically, this presents the show an opportunity to really dig into The Walking Dead's juiciest thematic potential, which is the toll such a cruel world takes on the survivors left to its mercy, and what kind of people they are forced to become. That's the good. The bad is that it also presents the opportunity for an unrelentingly bleak and emotionally punitive half-season. At which point you begin to wonder just what kind of appetite the audience is going to have for it.

Post-apocalyptic material is always prone to being very dark/hopeless even at the best of times, but to my knowledge has never really gotten the long-form treatment in a television show before. Most people can endure, say, two hours of The Road, or Children of Men, even if it leaves them a bit bummed out. What about 8 hours of that? Or 10? What's the end-game for The Walking Dead? How far down this road can the show go before it starts to hemorrhage viewers? By the same token, how do you insert hopefulness/happiness or comic relief into the show as a necessary palliative without destroying your tone or undermining the show's universe?
 

Saetha

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Jan 19, 2014
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All I know is that this is basically the reason I lost interest in Telltale's Walking Dead. It's supposed to be a "feels simulator" or whatever quirky name people gave it, and yeah, I thought Season One was a pretty neat experience that did a good job of kicking your heart in the ass. Then Season Two comes around, there's a whole brand new cast of characters to love and grieve for (Because pretty much all of the others were murdered) and you spend time getting invested and falling in love with them... only to watch them all die, or go crazy, or get turned into zombies. Hmm, okay, well, that was... cruel, I guess, yeah, but it kinda seemed repeat of the last season. So people started dropping like flies left and right in episodes two and three, and when new people are brought in to replace them all I can think is "Okay, why? Why should I care? Why should I give a shit? They're all going to die horribly. They always die horribly. There's no point."

And now season three has been announced and I just don't care anymore. There's no happy ending. There's no safe harbor. It's just a constant barrage of people coming into the story, having some cute moment that endears you to them, and them getting brutally murdered before your eyes. The first few times it was horrifying, but now it's just like... yeah. I get that it's dystopian fiction, but it's overstaying it's welcome. If all these characters just end up the same way, then why should I bother caring about them? There's no hope of a better future. And thus I've completely lost interest in the future. I just don't care anymore, and that's the kiss of death for any story.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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Greg Nicotero said during last night's Talking Dead that the group is headed for even darker times. Usually when a producer or writer says that I am all for it, since darkness affords so many opportunities for testing characters' limits. But this time, I just thought, "Ehh. Can there be some happiness somewhere?" Like, that one moment at the end of "No Sanctuary" where Daryl and Carol reunite, and Rick and Carl find out that Judith is alive with Tyreese, that was an excellently cathartic moment after the horror of the first 95% of the episode. We haven't had a moment like that since. I really am ready for these guys to get a few wins before the wheels fall off the wagon.
 

Fox12

AccursedT- see you space cowboy
Jun 6, 2013
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Here's the thing, a good tragedy needs us to care about the characters. Something needs to be at stake. A happy story with a bleak ending is way more powerful then a bleak story with a bleak ending. That's because there's an arc, and we see things go from good to bad. If Darkness Induced Apathy sets in, then the writer has failed. People remember how "dark" Neon Genesis Evangelion was, but it didn't get dark at all until the very very end of the series. We already knew and loved the characters. Then the torture, death, and mind rape happened. Oedipus Rex didn't get dark until the revelation at the end. Berserk had plenty of humor in it, and things didn't get out of control until the latter half of the Golden Age arc. Pacing is important in a good tragedy.

I think The Walking Dead, and even Game of Thrones, failed at this. There comes a point where I just don't care anymore. Then there's a point where the writers attempt to be grimdark is so tone deaf that it actually becomes funny. The Walking Dead is approaching the second one.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Just remember, you haven't gone full dark until there's a gang rape followed by cannibalism.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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MarsAtlas said:
Zhukov said:
Just remember, you haven't gone full dark until there's a gang rape followed by cannibalism.
Season 4 season finale of The Walking Dead called, and they'd like to have a word with you.
What, really?


Well, uhh... it only counts if it's the protagonists doing it. To each other.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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MarsAtlas said:
Zhukov said:
MarsAtlas said:
Zhukov said:
Just remember, you haven't gone full dark until there's a gang rape followed by cannibalism.
Season 4 season finale of The Walking Dead called, and they'd like to have a word with you.
What, really?


Well, uhh... it only counts if it's the protagonists doing it. To each other.
Well, the protagonist was doing the latter, so does that count?
Only if he was eating everyone's favourite character.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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Nope, sorry. I'm from Pittsburgh. We handle all zombie-related things out here in Romero Country.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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Oct 9, 2008
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Ive read the comics that are probably 3 seasons worth of tv material ahead at this point sooo....

Things do get better when they get to Washington, they find a new community. But they have trouble fitting in because all the hardships Ricks group have endured have made them into a particularly psychotic and untrusting group. Then things get really bad again, Then eventually things really do get better and they start trying to be better people again. Though they have a hard time with it, with pulling back from just killing and being psychotic.
 

Evonisia

Your sinner, in secret
Jun 24, 2013
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I'd say I'm becoming apathetic towards the show because of how predictable it is. If a character has a grizzled macho whisper, they've got plot armour large enough to deflect nuclear missiles. The show has no aim anymore, it's just "keep moving forward" at this point. No cure. No military. No holdout you can stay in. I don't mind if they're grim along the way, it's just that it becomes silly when I know what will happen.

Any interesting character, grim or goofy (or both), will be killed off so fast it makes my head spin. Beth finally got an interesting plot line but they got bored and get her the most baffling awful, stupid death I've ever seen in the show thus far. This episode which finally killed off that waste of space with the GMW (so it did have one twist in the formula) just made it even more clear when the hallucinations were the most interesting part of the show because they relieved me from this horrendous whisper-war between the characters.
 

Scarim Coral

Jumped the ship
Legacy
Oct 29, 2010
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Last time I've check, the comic is still ongoing since we are under the belief that there is no pernament cure of the zombie outbreak unless the creator were to killed off all of them.

Beside I pretty sure us, the audence can handle drak and grim due to our daily grim and darkness these days eventhought we now got them right in our face from the screen!

I will say for one thing, no characters are safe so don't get attached to them (I read summaries of the comics)!
 

mmmikey

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Mar 23, 2013
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I thought they were gonna start having Tyrese emerge as a competing leader with Rick, like when he came up with the hostage switch and knocked Rick's idea out. It would have been far more interesting to me to see the rest of the group fracture loyalties and trust on big plans and their fallout.

I found nothing truly entertaining in the last episode. Even when David Morrissey's Governor, a character I greatly enjoyed, returned, it just felt forced and unnecessary. The repetitious dialogue in the hallucination, especially from the children, was annoying. And where was his paramour from the prison in that sequence?

I thought the TV show with a limited shelf life might have a more conclusive end in mind, and the cure was one of the places they could've taken a turn on. Now it seems stuck in the same bottomless pit that the comic books were, and ultimately made me lose interest in them as well. The whole pitch of the series was a zombie movie that doesn't end. And while you can play lots of interesting ideas with that, the moment everyone you've put years of development into die off, you don't care to see the new guy go through the same trials.

It's been a long series of choices since about midway into season 3 that left me feeling less and less tied to the show. I don't know if I'll invest more time into further seasons. I'll finish season 5 since I came this far, but I felt like it's everything we've seen before being offered up again. So less darkness fatigue and more of wanting something new (which good things happening could bring).