Poll: Digital Distribution: The non-ownership era begins?
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I can't say much for methods other digital distribution methods, but I really like Steam. I like the convenience of pulling down a game overnight without leaving my home. I like their special weekend/package deals. I like not having to pop a different disc in the drive when I switch games. I like having my full library available when I'm on another computer halfway across the country for Thanksgiving or Christmas.
Probably most of all, I like knowing that I can't lock myself out of my games by losing or damaging the disks. I guess it's possible that I'll lose everything of Steam disappears and decides to go out with one last f**k you by locking all my downloaded content, but compared to dropping, scratching, or losing something that's a risk I'm willing to take.
Probably most of all, I like knowing that I can't lock myself out of my games by losing or damaging the disks. I guess it's possible that I'll lose everything of Steam disappears and decides to go out with one last f**k you by locking all my downloaded content, but compared to dropping, scratching, or losing something that's a risk I'm willing to take.
You mean like This [http://store.steampowered.com/app/15620/] or This [http://store.steampowered.com/app/12810/] or This [http://store.steampowered.com/app/25890/], etc.Nutcase said:
Sporadic sales don't count. Selling old games for cheap doesn't count (retail stores do this as well). Weekend sales and crap like that doesn't count (again, retailers do this as well). What I'm talking about is the pricing on fresh new high-profile releases. Actually, the fact that they CAN drop the price at any time only goes to show that the initial pricing is pretty ripoffish to begin with, only they like the overly huge profit margin and the utter lack of competition. The only thing in the current game market that's a bigger ripoff than DD is DLC, but that's a different can of worms.
This all brings up a subject I've been thinking about a lot lately. I purrfer to keep a hard copy in my possession, because it is mine, I own it, and that means I can have it whenever I want it. But with the upcoming of the new Star Wars MMO, I'm faced with what will likely be a $15 a month fee to play. Why am I paying to play the game when I've already bought it? Is it not my copy of the game to do with as I please? But going back further than that I've had this same arguement when they started throwing the copyright lawsuits around. I bought a cd/dvd, but I'm not allowed to rip it, I can't copy it, I can't play it publicly. Technically I can't invite people over to my house to play it for them, under penalty of law. Even though I paid for it, and under the rules of capitalism, I own it, it is my property to do with as I please. But I'm the criminal for ripping it onto my ipod.
I like the convenience of downloadable games. However, I think I'd be nice if they gave you the option for a physical copy upon request. I have seen some developers do this before.
Well, you missed the point a bit here: The copy of the game is yours to do as you please, of course. However, your monthy fee goes to paying for a SERVICE provided. Specifically, the persistent online servers that require extensive logistics to maintain and a horde of personell to cater to the various needs of the server and the people playing on it, as well as the constant patches and game updates, sometimes in the form of additional content.ShadowKatt said:
It's an argument as old as subscription-based MMOs and basically comes down to the fact that maintaining an online MMO with any degree of customer service is an expensive thing that needs to be funded somehow. I'm not saying the subscription model is the right thing to do, jut trying to point out that it's not the same as single-player games.
I understand your point, but what I'm saying is that something like that has no offline play. There's no way to play it without paying them. If I don't pay, I don't get to play, so at the very least I have to pay for it twice, and then over and over. I understand they have needs, but I also play Guild Wars, and their game is free online. Not only that, but they update their game every few HOURS, so it's not like some that fall apart into ruin because of a supposed lack of funds.Jandau said:
I have no preference. I choose which option I want on a case by case basis (usually dependant on pricing), although I suppose I'd generally be more inclined to go digital distribution with older titles.
EDIT:
Oh, and I usually don't bother with digital distribution unless it's Steam. Steam feels stable and secure enough for me to put money into it, as I don't have any fears that the service will just suddenly shut down and vanish.
I have a (free) copy of Mirror's Edge through EA's distribution system, though, and while it works just fine I'm not too happy with the limitations imposed. If you want to talk about digital distribution and compare it to rental services, it's EA you should be talking about.
EDIT:
Oh, and I usually don't bother with digital distribution unless it's Steam. Steam feels stable and secure enough for me to put money into it, as I don't have any fears that the service will just suddenly shut down and vanish.
I have a (free) copy of Mirror's Edge through EA's distribution system, though, and while it works just fine I'm not too happy with the limitations imposed. If you want to talk about digital distribution and compare it to rental services, it's EA you should be talking about.
Repeat thread 
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.127989?page=1
[small]That's right, I called you on it...[/small]
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.127989?page=1
[small]That's right, I called you on it...[/small]
I completely agree. I hate the idea of not having physical copies of my games, cds, dvds, whatever. I am paying the money so i want all of the control over it. Also, digital copies would just make my giant entertainment center with extra shelves, completely worthless.
it seems pretty overwhelming that the gaming communities prefer physical copies, so why is the gaming industry continiously pushing this?
it seems pretty overwhelming that the gaming communities prefer physical copies, so why is the gaming industry continiously pushing this?
So much closed minded-ness in this thread. Someone has to come out and say it:
That's fine and all, but times change and so do people. The young ones coming up will be FAR more connected to one another and their content than even someone as young as I (23) will ever be. They will be the first generation to demand that every be accessable from any device... TV will go to on demand, movies are pretty much there, and gaming will follow suit. Now how can gaming be on demand when its just a physical disc?
It can't.
I use both the physical disc and D2D, GOG, STEAM, etc. I'm a smart shopper: I buy the game at the best price and regardless of format. I weigh the pros and cons. Having a digital copy at the "full price" doesn't show how much a rip off they are, but rather how so many people are suckered into thinking getting a box suddenly makes it worth $40, $50, $60, etc. Free/Cheap DVDs come in cases with artwork, etc. It costs then cents on the dollar to mass produce that crap. I would bet the costs of bandwidth (something necessary for dishing out large titles) would be somewhere along the same lines as making cases, albiet cheaper.
No one even mentioned the pros of digital distrubution: Green. Less wasting of useless paper, plastics, gas, etc. The energy cost of digital distribution IS much less then that of physical media. That's a very important key factor to myself as many nations are growing into the 1st World Scene and developing broad band networks. I would much rather not have them follow the pitiful and wasteful example of the current 1st World Nations, that's for sure.
With Steam and such, games are much more likely to go on sale quicker than their retail brethren. Less overheard, worrying about stock, etc. Hence there are the weekend deals on massive games like Dawn of War 2 for $25 or D2D with Fallout 3 for $25. I have never, EVER seen those go on sale at any brick and mortar in my area. If you can't find them cheaper online to justify your loss of $0.50 worth of plastic, then you just don't search hard enough.
Someone mentioned it was difficult to get your Steam account back and my response:
IT BETTER WELL BE!
If it was simple, then that would be an open gateway for social hacking; IE an imposter posing as you stealing your account. Be smart with online accounts: Use complex passwords, change them every so often, DO NOT SHARE THEM, and make sure your PC is properly clean. Simply put: They are very safe, it's usually almost always something the end user did to lose it, not STEAM, D2D, etc.
What some people also fail to realize is that nostalgia of whipping out an old copy is moot for someone who had their disc lost, stolen, or damaged. I never got to play Deus Ex, but instead of fishing on eBay or Amazon for a copy, I could click into my steam account, insert 10 credits and *Dispense!*
The Digital method is coming. It's succeeding on the iPhone, PC, Home Consoles, and even in handhelds. It will come to a point where are children or our grandchildren will look at our old PS2 collection (which is all offered on the PS6's online store) and be like "What's that for? What do you mean you can't access them anywhere?!"
I own 30+ games on Steam. I own 50+ physical games for PC, PS3, PSP, DS, PS2. I have lived in both worlds and can only wait for more digital adoption.
Finally: Don't be a Tool. Piracy never has an excuse.
That's fine and all, but times change and so do people. The young ones coming up will be FAR more connected to one another and their content than even someone as young as I (23) will ever be. They will be the first generation to demand that every be accessable from any device... TV will go to on demand, movies are pretty much there, and gaming will follow suit. Now how can gaming be on demand when its just a physical disc?
It can't.
I use both the physical disc and D2D, GOG, STEAM, etc. I'm a smart shopper: I buy the game at the best price and regardless of format. I weigh the pros and cons. Having a digital copy at the "full price" doesn't show how much a rip off they are, but rather how so many people are suckered into thinking getting a box suddenly makes it worth $40, $50, $60, etc. Free/Cheap DVDs come in cases with artwork, etc. It costs then cents on the dollar to mass produce that crap. I would bet the costs of bandwidth (something necessary for dishing out large titles) would be somewhere along the same lines as making cases, albiet cheaper.
No one even mentioned the pros of digital distrubution: Green. Less wasting of useless paper, plastics, gas, etc. The energy cost of digital distribution IS much less then that of physical media. That's a very important key factor to myself as many nations are growing into the 1st World Scene and developing broad band networks. I would much rather not have them follow the pitiful and wasteful example of the current 1st World Nations, that's for sure.
With Steam and such, games are much more likely to go on sale quicker than their retail brethren. Less overheard, worrying about stock, etc. Hence there are the weekend deals on massive games like Dawn of War 2 for $25 or D2D with Fallout 3 for $25. I have never, EVER seen those go on sale at any brick and mortar in my area. If you can't find them cheaper online to justify your loss of $0.50 worth of plastic, then you just don't search hard enough.
Someone mentioned it was difficult to get your Steam account back and my response:
IT BETTER WELL BE!
If it was simple, then that would be an open gateway for social hacking; IE an imposter posing as you stealing your account. Be smart with online accounts: Use complex passwords, change them every so often, DO NOT SHARE THEM, and make sure your PC is properly clean. Simply put: They are very safe, it's usually almost always something the end user did to lose it, not STEAM, D2D, etc.
What some people also fail to realize is that nostalgia of whipping out an old copy is moot for someone who had their disc lost, stolen, or damaged. I never got to play Deus Ex, but instead of fishing on eBay or Amazon for a copy, I could click into my steam account, insert 10 credits and *Dispense!*
The Digital method is coming. It's succeeding on the iPhone, PC, Home Consoles, and even in handhelds. It will come to a point where are children or our grandchildren will look at our old PS2 collection (which is all offered on the PS6's online store) and be like "What's that for? What do you mean you can't access them anywhere?!"
I own 30+ games on Steam. I own 50+ physical games for PC, PS3, PSP, DS, PS2. I have lived in both worlds and can only wait for more digital adoption.
Finally: Don't be a Tool. Piracy never has an excuse.
I think people are being a bit paranoid about Digital Distribution.
If sometimes happens to your data or hardware you can re-download the games later.
With the good Digital Distribution services like Steam and GoodOldGames (gog.com) you can uninstall the game,
and install the game again later.
I like being able to have a more convenient way to buy games, sometimes retail copies of games sell out too rapidly
or it's very difficult to find physical copies of older games.
Weekend deals on Steam are sometimes much better buys than what retail stores can offer.
New game prices seem to drop faster through Digital Distribution than new physical retail games.
If I'm unsure about the game's quality or if the game is for a current gen console then I want a physical copy...
In order to be able to re-sell it if necessary.
TheKbob made some very good points, in the above post.
Here are a couple of the quotes for people who don't like reading very much.
If sometimes happens to your data or hardware you can re-download the games later.
With the good Digital Distribution services like Steam and GoodOldGames (gog.com) you can uninstall the game,
and install the game again later.
I like being able to have a more convenient way to buy games, sometimes retail copies of games sell out too rapidly
or it's very difficult to find physical copies of older games.
Weekend deals on Steam are sometimes much better buys than what retail stores can offer.
New game prices seem to drop faster through Digital Distribution than new physical retail games.
If I'm unsure about the game's quality or if the game is for a current gen console then I want a physical copy...
In order to be able to re-sell it if necessary.
TheKbob made some very good points, in the above post.
Here are a couple of the quotes for people who don't like reading very much.
TheKbob said:
I'm not really that concerned about having a physical disk. They are more likely to be broken or damaged, and there is no way to back it up if that does happen. Yes, there is a chance that your harddrive may become wiped and all your games disappear, but if your clever and back up your data, then this can be prevented.
Digital distribution takes up less space in your home, is easier to access since you don't have to replace disks everytime you want to change a game, and, possibly most importantly, allows Indie developers who would have previously been unable to make good profits to tap into the mainstream market.
edit: The ONE thing that I'm concerned about with Digital Distribution is trading in games: its pretty much impossible at this current state of time. I think someone needs to come up with some method in which you can delete a game and regain a percentage of the price of the game (maybe 30%?) in digital credits, which can be then used to buy newer games.
Digital distribution takes up less space in your home, is easier to access since you don't have to replace disks everytime you want to change a game, and, possibly most importantly, allows Indie developers who would have previously been unable to make good profits to tap into the mainstream market.
edit: The ONE thing that I'm concerned about with Digital Distribution is trading in games: its pretty much impossible at this current state of time. I think someone needs to come up with some method in which you can delete a game and regain a percentage of the price of the game (maybe 30%?) in digital credits, which can be then used to buy newer games.
Jandau said:
What bugs me is older games, as far as i've seen, aren't discounted over time. There are games I don't buy on release but would pick up at a later date after a price reduction.
I can understand they want new users to buy the content they want for the highest price but what about a speculative purchase once it's cheaper.
Speaking as a PS3 owner, I've heard Live has a demo for all games available to buy digitally. Why doesn't PSN do this? It seems obvious to be able to try before you buy, especially as you can't sell it on if you don't like it.
If you live in a place where game shops are only located ina the capital city of your country (like i am) digital distribution via Steam is a great idea, especially when you get special offers (50% off, some game packs).
But if you live in my country, would be using torrents to get your games.
But if you live in my country, would be using torrents to get your games.
This is obviously and infrastructure issue and not something to be blamed on the digital distribution systems. I know this is a serious issue in the US right now as there is concern as to what kind of quality of living difference and opportunities available in a household with broadband and one without. Electricity was once a luxery... now its a necessity most would say.logiman said:
Access to TV has come to that point, but may deviate with the internet. Rather, maybe we just need on demand entertainment, news, education, etc. tool at our hands. Before it was more television, but now its the internet. Regardless, that discussion is better left for a different level. I do agree that we need better broadband infrastructure for digital media methods to prosper.
It is still in the "growing pains" area of development. Give it time and the process will get better. People need to realize there are far many more pros.
Look at Steam, for example. You can easily have one place where you can browse the price of games, see their rating, and even see videos, screenshots, and even demos. A What If scenario: Not only does Steam allow you to opt into system reviews, but you can allow them to sample post game data such as framerate durings scenes at given settings with your hardware. They could compile this data, give it to the developers for game patches or have their client scan your hardware and give you target FPS points. So instead of standing in a store asking "Will this run?" or using some of those OK sites, you get accurate answers from the community!
It would be like Amazon, too. User reviews for titles. If people a rating a game 1 star (for valid reasons, not the Spore debacle), then bad games will die quicker, bad game companies will die quicker and we can have the prospects of less shovelware.
A final note: People are watching Steam sales. People are watching huge spikes in copies moved. More copies moved means more satisfied customers that mean more post game sales such as DLC or Sequels. Maybe with Digital Distributions they will learn that if they cut their MSRP by 50%, they could quadruple sales, thus making 2 times the money? EDIT: More than twice the money because their is no issue of supply vs. demand. Supply is always full regardless of demand. If they dropped by 50% and quadrupled sales, that would mean much higher return rate on revenue and thus more profit. Digital Distribution is a solid strategy if you want cheaper games.
I'm not asking anyone to change their minds, rather have a better viewpoint on the scenario. It may not be all doom & gloom.