Poll: Do you believe humans are apes?

[Regiment]

Yes, in the same sense that we are mammals and animals, and in the same way that a leek is a plant. This is taxonomy.

Now, asking "are humans nothing more than smart monkeys" is a psychological question that I'd need to think about.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

No, it's impossible. There are disincentive differences that separate us completely

Are you sure that's the word you wanted to use?
dis·in·cen·tive (dsn-sntv)
n.
Something that prevents or discourages action; a deterrent.

Whoa grammar Gestapo is on my tail again

 

[Jonabob87]

You are a moron. Evolution is the unifying theory within biology. As somebody who has studied biology in higher education for over 2 years, I can clearly state that evolution is a fact, and you are in a serious, mentally deficient denial.

You are not in the Dark Ages anymore, you are now the weak minority, it is time to wake up and smell the evidence.

People like you give atheism a bad name.

I didn't hear atheist... all I heard is "use your brain"

I use my brain often, it's how I can tell that calling someone's beliefs "Mentally deficient denial" is a pathetically offensive and needless thing to say...

 

[ScRaT_the_destroyer]

Absolutly and i think it should be glorified too, look from what we have come, from cowering monkeys in trees on the african plains to exploring bodies of rock far across the vast emptyness of space admittedly the time frame leaves a lot to be desired but nethertheless my point is still valid

 

[diasravenguard]

Why would humanity be the apex of evolution? We're no such thing. We're not the best, nor all that special - plenty of species are more succesfull than we are, or more complex.

Yes, we are best and "most" successful specie on earth. We are on the top of the foodchain, we dont have natural predators. And Human Brain is the most complex structure in universe as we know it.

That is simply not true. We are at the top of the foodchain, not counting bacteria and virusses, and many parasites. The foodchain is a human invention. It's a thought. Factually speaking, it is not as simple as a foodchain. I could go into the details, but you wouldn't read them anyway.

The brain is not the most complex structure. Also, it is impossible to compare complexity in this manner, since it is relative. There are more complex cells than braincells, and more complex electrical fields than that of the human brain.

Again, succesful is something we made up, plus it's relative. There are no true ways to measure succesfulness, since it does not have a fixed numerical meaning.

With the 80 billion neurons, I am pretty sure brain is one of the most complex.

Also, you dont have to "measure" successfulness of humankind. Just open the window and look outside. We can create artificial life using synthetic dna, and we can destroy all life on earth with the snap of a fingers. What other animal on earth can do that.

That is actually an issue of a phylisophical debate I would argue that us being able to destroy all life on earth (including our own) would show how unsuccessful we have been at cohabitating the planet.

What if I told you that the dolphin has another 3/5th that number of neurons? (they do) it is a very complex structure but look at element 119 thats a SINGLE element we are mostly H2O which has a mass of 8 (element 119 has an atomic mass of 119 BY ITSELF)

Isnt that a philosophical topic anyway ?

Dolphins, no. Whales, yes.

Also, it is the ability that matters, not how we us it. Measure of our success is our ability to shape our environment as we see fit.

look-up the family of a dolphin and a whale... their brains are generally the same species to species.

How we have changed (shaped) our environment is to kill off species damage the only environment we have and kill each other... that's not an accomplishment...

 

[diasravenguard]

You are a moron. Evolution is the unifying theory within biology. As somebody who has studied biology in higher education for over 2 years, I can clearly state that evolution is a fact, and you are in a serious, mentally deficient denial.

You are not in the Dark Ages anymore, you are now the weak minority, it is time to wake up and smell the evidence.

People like you give atheism a bad name.

I didn't hear atheist... all I heard is "use your brain"

I use my brain often, it's how I can tell that calling someone's beliefs "Mentally deficient denial" is a pathetically offensive and needless thing to say...

So is saying that what he said had anything to do with atheism. Also it's actually the same as saying that people who can not project their own beliefs onto another and get mad about it are pathetic...

 

[Nalesnik]

I could say that I don't believe in gravity, but that won't stop this apple from falling to the ground when I let go of it.

 

[diasravenguard]

Absolutly and i think it should be glorified too, look from what we have come, from cowering monkeys in trees on the african plains to exploring bodies of rock far across the vast emptyness of space admittedly the time frame leaves a lot to be desired but nethertheless my point is still valid

Ya made me laugh with that one! it's totally correct and beautifully egocentric I love it!

 

[diasravenguard]

I could say that I don't believe in gravity, but that won't stop this apple from falling to the ground when I let go of it.

Yea that's a lot less offensive than how I worded it but couldn't quite get it right... ^^;

 

[diasravenguard]

No, it's impossible. There are disincentive differences that separate us completely

Are you sure that's the word you wanted to use?
dis·in·cen·tive (dsn-sntv)
n.
Something that prevents or discourages action; a deterrent.

Whoa grammar Gestapo is on my tail again

I'm still waiting for the new classifications for my taxidermy class...

 

[Circleseer]

With the 80 billion neurons, I am pretty sure brain is one of the most complex.

Also, you dont have to "measure" successfulness of humankind. Just open the window and look outside. We can create artificial life using synthetic dna, and we can destroy all life on earth with the snap of a fingers. What other animal on earth can do that.

That is actually an issue of a phylisophical debate I would argue that us being able to destroy all life on earth (including our own) would show how unsuccessful we have been at cohabitating the planet.

What if I told you that the dolphin has another 3/5th that number of neurons? (they do) it is a very complex structure but look at element 119 thats a SINGLE element we are mostly H2O which has a mass of 8 (element 119 has an atomic mass of 119 BY ITSELF)

Those were the exact things I was going to mention, Ravenguard.

As to Dana22..

Everything is made out of the same basic particles.
These particles eventually create an amazing variety of complex structures.
You think that you are an individual, but you are wrong. You are part of earth. Your system isn't closed. You take air and sustenance from earth. Your body is in constant direct contact with the outside world. Even your mind and every thought you have comes from having a body, and interacting with the world. If you were born without a body, you would never have a single thought, since your brains would never have anything to compare anything else to (hypothetically). All your thoughts are are comparisons. Just very complex ones. When we change the world, we change our environment, and thus ourselves. Is that power? Is that succes? Even if we're immortal and travel at light speed, we'd still be the same. We're a product of our surroundings and some inherited traits.

There is no succes. We thought up the concept of succes, and of failure. We decide when we are succesful. If an animal loses a fight, it won't think 'I have failed'. It will walk off and lick its wounds, and might remember the victor as dangerous.

You see a tree. You identify the tree as being different from the ground it is rooted in, and the air that surrounds it.

But it breathes the air that surrounds it, and it takes nourishment from the soil, and it drinks the rain, and all these things are made of the same particles, but in different forms. Remove any of the prementioned things and the tree dies. In fact, the tree is part of that whole system. Not a system of needs per se, but just a system of existance. We are all part of the system. You only seperate it into parts because it makes it easier for a hunter-gatherer species to deal with reality. Treating things as individual objects, and assigning rules to those objects.

What life comes down to has precious little to do with power over the world, knowledge or emotion. Even with ultimate power over all that is, or with complete individuality and no longer requiring interaction with the rest of the system, you don't gain or lose anything. Intrinsical values remain the same, and even changing those won't actually accomplish anything.

Succes works in small operations. You need food. You catch a boar. You were succesful. You rejoice. It is just in your head. It is a mental tool. It doesn't -really- exist.

Yet it is things like this that makes people search for the meaning of life, and justice, and power over the universe and the world. Trying to find physical manifestations of these things can only lead to dissapointment.

So just enjoy a glass of wine, endulge your primary needs, enjoy life, enjoy what you are.


Good night, and to those who read all through this, I'm impressed! I hope it wasn't a waste of your time, in your opinion.

 

[diasravenguard]

Last post before I'm off to bed.

People, seriously stop seeing science as a camp that says one thing, and religion as a camp that says another. That isn't how it is at all.

Science is a method of research. It does not claim we are anything other than what we are. What science does in this case, is order things. You look at similarities, and then order everything. People share traits with apes, and are thus put in a catagory with apes.

This is because we look like them. Perhaps not in a direct visual sense, but structurally and genetically, we most certainly do.



You aren't an ape, and in fact, you're not the same human your neighbour is either. You have a unique buildup. But as far as classifying goes, you're an ape.


Accept it, and go to bed, or suggest a new catagory.


Good night!

Goodnight! and I still say macro-virus!

 

[Jonabob87]

Speaking for everyone who doesn't believe in evolution (such as myself) No we are not apes. We never were. And we never will be

Just a quick question I've been meaning to ask someone like you please by all means do not take it the wrong way but, if you do not believe in evolution do you believe in the Adam and Eve thing? Because you know that story goes in the direction of family incest and that we'd be hillbillies because everybody would be related to us right?

Well this is so far the nicest reply on this thread I've gotten, and for that I will be glad to answer your question. I do believe in the Adam and Eve story, but after Cain killed Abel he wondered the Earth. God had created many more humans and allowed them to reproduce with each other. There was no incest just more humans created.

Well, if you reject the theory of evolution and make the claim that we are not related to apes you better have really good evidence, because current evolutionary theory has insurmountable amounts of evidence behind it. What evidence do you have for the Genesis story?

What evidence is there for evolution? For all we know those bones and "fossils" could have been deformities and died. My support of Genesis lies within Faith. Something no amount of "science" or "theories" can disprove. Just look at the sunset, a waterfall. There is no way this world could have started by a "big bang" there has to be something bigger then that and I know there is. His name is God.

Yea that theory of gravity doesn't prove anything at all about how science always works of tangible evidence.

I'll take facts over faith everyday of the week and you do as well unless you want to just say that "faith" built the computer you are using.

Well thats your choice in life and hell im not going to stop you, you can believe in what you wanna believe. And I'll believe and what I feel is right. Thats what makes us individuals in this world.

I believe I posted previously about being able to rationalize the holocaust as feeling like the right thing to do... Even if you think something is "right" that doesn't make it right. Like saying that it is right to eat lobster because it's a fancy dish even though your religious beliefs say that the father "as in the father not the son who is the only way to get to the father and be allowed into heaven" is disgusted by it...

I'm lost as to where God says "Don't east Lobster, I am disgusted by it."

In the New Testament God tells Peter that all foods are safe and clean to eat. It's half that and half a metaphor for accepting gentiles, but the food bit is relevant here.

"Do not call unclean, what God has called clean."

Read old testament and don't tell me new testament changed all the rules. New testament is written by man as a testament old testament is written for god by man.

"the word of god is eternal and unchanging" thats the big thing that makes jews and christians different they follow the words of god not the words of the disciples of Jesus.

Where do you get it from that Christians only read the new testament?

The problem will always be that the Bible was written by men, God chosen and inspired men, but men nonetheless. What springs from this is the imperfection that is seen in it.

In the end God is practical, and mysterious. I'd be lying if I said I understood everything he's ever done, because I don't and I don't presume I will ever understand while I'm still here(believe me, I am readying for question time with God). However, I THINK the unclean food thing was about cleanliness. The priests also had to clean themselves and confess before entering into Gods presence, or they'd die. I suppose it can be seen as throwing off your sins and giving them to God, so you wont be marred by them in his presence, as God cannot abide sin.

Like when the jews would make a sacrifice, the point was that the animal in question would take the burden of their sin, and die in their place. It's not because God wants a dead sheep on an altar, that's mental.

So mankinds sin reached a head and God put into action the biggest living sacrifice there could ever be, Jesus, to do the dying in our place. So obligation to ritual cleansing, not eating pork and other unclean foods and sacrificing of anaimals is no longer necessary.

 

[The Austin]

You are a moron. You are not in the Dark Ages anymore, you are now the weak minority, it is time to wake up and smell the evidence.

Uh, I think YOU need to wake up.

See that chart? Thats a chart representing the percentage of the world that is religious.
Chances are, quite a few of those people DON'T believe in evolution.

And guess what? Just because you have studied Biology doesn't give you the right to be a jackass.

 

[Jonabob87]

You are a moron. Evolution is the unifying theory within biology. As somebody who has studied biology in higher education for over 2 years, I can clearly state that evolution is a fact, and you are in a serious, mentally deficient denial.

You are not in the Dark Ages anymore, you are now the weak minority, it is time to wake up and smell the evidence.

People like you give atheism a bad name.

I didn't hear atheist... all I heard is "use your brain"

I use my brain often, it's how I can tell that calling someone's beliefs "Mentally deficient denial" is a pathetically offensive and needless thing to say...

So is saying that what he said had anything to do with atheism. Also it's actually the same as saying that people who can not project their own beliefs onto another and get mad about it are pathetic...

It's clear as day that he's atheist by what he says, don't insult my intelligence by acting like it's not blatant. Regardless, I'm not annoyed because he doesn't believe in God, I'm annoyed because he thinks less of those who do, because they do.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

No, it's impossible. There are disincentive differences that separate us completely

Are you sure that's the word you wanted to use?
dis·in·cen·tive (dsn-sntv)
n.
Something that prevents or discourages action; a deterrent.

Whoa grammar Gestapo is on my tail again

I'm still waiting for the new classifications for my taxidermy class...

Look, when you believe in something different on this website you tend to get a bunch of people who quote you saying "how wrong you are" so when ever i get on, oh for example like the last time i got on i got 11 quote messages on this thread. And to be far 10 of them were people trying to prove me wrong and say how wrong i am. I'm sorry if i didnt respond its just because i kinda stopped caring

 

[TK421]

No, no, a thousand times no!! No. I find it immensely insulting to be classified with some animal. Humans are humans, not apes.

 

[diasravenguard]

Speaking for everyone who doesn't believe in evolution (such as myself) No we are not apes. We never were. And we never will be

Just a quick question I've been meaning to ask someone like you please by all means do not take it the wrong way but, if you do not believe in evolution do you believe in the Adam and Eve thing? Because you know that story goes in the direction of family incest and that we'd be hillbillies because everybody would be related to us right?

Well this is so far the nicest reply on this thread I've gotten, and for that I will be glad to answer your question. I do believe in the Adam and Eve story, but after Cain killed Abel he wondered the Earth. God had created many more humans and allowed them to reproduce with each other. There was no incest just more humans created.

Well, if you reject the theory of evolution and make the claim that we are not related to apes you better have really good evidence, because current evolutionary theory has insurmountable amounts of evidence behind it. What evidence do you have for the Genesis story?

What evidence is there for evolution? For all we know those bones and "fossils" could have been deformities and died. My support of Genesis lies within Faith. Something no amount of "science" or "theories" can disprove. Just look at the sunset, a waterfall. There is no way this world could have started by a "big bang" there has to be something bigger then that and I know there is. His name is God.

Yea that theory of gravity doesn't prove anything at all about how science always works of tangible evidence.

I'll take facts over faith everyday of the week and you do as well unless you want to just say that "faith" built the computer you are using.

Well thats your choice in life and hell im not going to stop you, you can believe in what you wanna believe. And I'll believe and what I feel is right. Thats what makes us individuals in this world.

I believe I posted previously about being able to rationalize the holocaust as feeling like the right thing to do... Even if you think something is "right" that doesn't make it right. Like saying that it is right to eat lobster because it's a fancy dish even though your religious beliefs say that the father "as in the father not the son who is the only way to get to the father and be allowed into heaven" is disgusted by it...

I'm lost as to where God says "Don't east Lobster, I am disgusted by it."

In the New Testament God tells Peter that all foods are safe and clean to eat. It's half that and half a metaphor for accepting gentiles, but the food bit is relevant here.

"Do not call unclean, what God has called clean."

Read old testament and don't tell me new testament changed all the rules. New testament is written by man as a testament old testament is written for god by man.

"the word of god is eternal and unchanging" thats the big thing that makes jews and christians different they follow the words of god not the words of the disciples of Jesus.

Where do you get it from that Christians only read the new testament?

The problem will always be that the Bible was written by men, God chosen and inspired men, but men nonetheless. What springs from this is the imperfection that is seen in it.

In the end God is practical, and mysterious. I'd be lying if I said I understood everything he's ever done, because I don't and I don't presume I will ever understand while I'm still here(believe me, I am readying for question time with God). However, I THINK the unclean food thing was about cleanliness. The priests also had to clean themselves and confess before entering into Gods presence, or they'd die. I suppose it can be seen as throwing off your sins and giving them to God, so you wont be marred by them in his presence, as God cannot abide sin.

Like when the jews would make a sacrifice, the point was that the animal in question would take the burden of their sin, and die in their place. It's not because God wants a dead sheep on an altar, that's mental.

So mankinds sin reached a head and God put into action the biggest living sacrifice there could ever be, Jesus, to do the dying in our place. So obligation to ritual cleansing, not eating pork and other unclean foods and sacrificing of anaimals is no longer necessary.

Very much on key but it does not take from the fact that it was considered an abomination... due to safety of the food (pork was due to parasites at the time) or not. It's something that I've never got and I know most people who are christian discount the old testament due to ignorance (I live in the bible belt) I didn't say you had not read it but was making the statement that that one line defines the entire set.